Paul Warne

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Carnero said:

I'm not sure that there are both "Warne In" and "Warne Out" camps really.

There's certainly a "Warne Out" camp from a handful of one dimensional posters, then there's everybody else who sees both pros and cons with Warne, as there are with most other managers.

Anyone who disagrees with some of the nonsense posted by the "Warne Out" camp is automatically thrown into the "Warne In" camp rather than just being somebody that disagrees with nonsense!

Nonsense!

The microwave is for soup and drying socks!

There's both extremes and all shades in between. Which is what you'd expect.

Trying to pretend otherwise is just unconscious bias 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, jono said:

Fair point, but given that none of us have much evidence of what Warne can do with a fair crack of the whip in this league and given our start this season (I’d say unspectacular but certainly ok) .. What do you think would be a reasonable points score + entertainment value after say 10 games ? and if that is achieved would you remain a critic ? 
 

I’m going to become a doubter if we are bottom 4, be disappointed if we are only a couple of places above that. I’d say “comfortable” if we are in the better “teens” / looking to mid table. Happy with anything 10th or better. Entertainment is a bit subjective but if we are scoring goals I’m generally happy. Until last season we have, in my mind, been notable as low scoring, which is not a “prefered profile” for me when supporting my team.

With regard to entertainment value, that's a relatively easy one for me. I am not watching games much nowadays, and therefore winning is currently much more important to me than style. I would have different views I am sure if I was spending my hard earned. However, the percentage football Brady defined so well above is something that I would like to see us as a club, and Warne as a manager, move away from as quickly as practicable. Whether Warne has that capability I don't know, but I have always doubted it. Time will tell.

It is so important to gain points at the start of the season so 6 from 4 is great and 15 from 10 would be great too.  15 pts would put us comfortable in mid-table, 10 pts most likely hovering above the relegation spots.  I think if we are at 10 pts after 10 games it will be a tough slog this year, because my gut tells me that if there is a slog tahead then Warne will more likely set us up to play percentage football, rather than be more expansive in our game play. Staying up/consolidating though is key this season, and ultimately I think if that is Clowes key objective, it should also be mine.

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Do you want Warne in or out!

 

2 hours ago, jono said:

Fair point, but given that none of us have much evidence of what Warne can do with a fair crack of the whip in this league and given our start this season (I’d say unspectacular but certainly ok) .. What do you think would be a reasonable points score + entertainment value after say 10 games ? and if that is achieved would you remain a critic ? 
 

 

(I know you were joking i-ram but your post and jono's were a good launching point to work out my position towards Warne into words)

Ultimately; gun against my head and I have to make a simple snap decision based on needing to get it right for the best possible future for the club, I'd say out. If I was in charge of the club right now though I wouldn't make a move because of my level of confidence in it being the right call isn't high enough to sack someone midseason who we just got promoted with and by most accounts is a good guy doing his best for the club. When should only sack him midseason if we feel strongly that his actions are leading us into a relegation fight or we feel he's severely diverging from what our future goals are (or should be). Then at the end of the season (or close enough that difference is irrelevant)  we should make a more measured cold assessment which really for me depends on how well we think he's setting us for future success.

The main problems I've been concerned about when he took over were namely; style of play, whether he can integrate and develop academy players, and whether he could adapt to the championship. Those are still my concerns and his tenure up to this season has left me more concerned on all these fronts in spite of the promotion. See the thing is our goal shouldn't be 'survive in the championship', like it shouldn't have been 'get out of league 1 asap'. Our goal should be establishing ourselves in the premiership. Which in order to give ourselves the possibility of doing of that in anything close to a reasonable time frame we need to be thinking about, planning for and setting things in place now. Because in spite of everything as a club we can do it and I believe we can do it in a way that avoids us being sucked into the same cycle we want down with Mel Morris. However in order to do so we need to recognise that we are at disadvantage when it comes to buying power and that by trying to do things in the typical fashion we will flatline into championship mediocrity. 

There's two elements to this that I don't think some people really acknowledge or realise;

1. Decisions made now will impact our future success. Thinking about the short term however tempting or however well meaning could well mean there comes a point where it takes an enormous amount of effort to go forwards. The bluntest example of this is think about the span of time from Clement to the end of Lampard's season. A 4 year span where we span our wheels, set us down the path of relegation and 5 years later we are still at a minimum 2 years of getting back to where we were. The thing is the actual cost of those decisions at the time took a while to materialise. It's nowhere near that level but what will it have potentially cost us long term by not keeping Bird, Knight or Sibley, what will it have cost us not spending more time whilst at a lower level developing younger players (both academy and the likes of Thompson).
2. Our academy is our only real ace but it is a massive advantage. Because of where we are situated geographically we actually can compete for much better talent when they are at an early age and cheaper. Since gaining cat 1 status in 2014 we have produced at a rough count 17 players capable of playing in the championship or above. Just over 1.5 players per year. With most of them realistically coming in the last 5. Especially when you consider the whole mess of everything in the last  few it's not unreasonable that we could be effectively be producing 2 good players at this level per year. And that's something we can genuinely leverage to overcome the disparity in buying power. But to do that it needs buy in from the first team and players need to be actively integrated. We've already wasted what is likely the best generation of academy talent to come through the club it'd be idiotic to not avoid that scenario again like the plague. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

9 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

 

 

(I know you were joking i-ram but your post and jono's were a good launching point to work out my position towards Warne into words)

Ultimately; gun against my head and I have to make a simple snap decision based on needing to get it right for the best possible future for the club, I'd say out. If I was in charge of the club right now though I wouldn't make a move because of my level of confidence in it being the right call isn't high enough to sack someone midseason who we just got promoted with and by most accounts is a good guy doing his best for the club. When should only sack him midseason if we feel strongly that his actions are leading us into a relegation fight or we feel he's severely diverging from what our future goals are (or should be). Then at the end of the season (or close enough that difference is irrelevant)  we should make a more measured cold assessment which really for me depends on how well we think he's setting us for future success.

The main problems I've been concerned about when he took over were namely; style of play, whether he can integrate and develop academy players, and whether he could adapt to the championship. Those are still my concerns and his tenure up to this season has left me more concerned on all these fronts in spite of the promotion. See the thing is our goal shouldn't be 'survive in the championship', like it shouldn't have been 'get out of league 1 asap'. Our goal should be establishing ourselves in the premiership. Which in order to give ourselves the possibility of doing of that in anything close to a reasonable time frame we need to be thinking about, planning for and setting things in place now. Because in spite of everything as a club we can do it and I believe we can do it in a way that avoids us being sucked into the same cycle we want down with Mel Morris. However in order to do so we need to recognise that we are at disadvantage when it comes to buying power and that by trying to do things in the typical fashion we will flatline into championship mediocrity. 

There's two elements to this that I don't think some people really acknowledge or realise;

1. Decisions made now will impact our future success. Thinking about the short term however tempting or however well meaning could well mean there comes a point where it takes an enormous amount of effort to go forwards. The bluntest example of this is think about the span of time from Clement to the end of Lampard's season. A 4 year span where we span our wheels, set us down the path of relegation and 5 years later we are still at a minimum 2 years of getting back to where we were. The thing is the actual cost of those decisions at the time took a while to materialise. It's nowhere near that level but what will it have potentially cost us long term by not keeping Bird, Knight or Sibley, what will it have cost us not spending more time whilst at a lower level developing younger players (both academy and the likes of Thompson).
2. Our academy is our only real ace but it is a massive advantage. Because of where we are situated geographically we actually can compete for much better talent when they are at an early age and cheaper. Since gaining cat 1 status in 2014 we have produced at a rough count 17 players capable of playing in the championship or above. Just over 1.5 players per year. With most of them realistically coming in the last 5. Especially when you consider the whole mess of everything in the last  few it's not unreasonable that we could be effectively be producing 2 good players at this level per year. And that's something we can genuinely leverage to overcome the disparity in buying power. But to do that it needs buy in from the first team and players need to be actively integrated. We've already wasted what is likely the best generation of academy talent to come through the club it'd be idiotic to not avoid that scenario again like the plague. 

I dont really agree with any of that Brady. I think Warnes style of play is more akin to what we saw on good days in league 1 (but didn't have the players for consistancy) and what we saw in the second half particularly against Bristol City. Hard to break down but also fast, powerful, skillful attacking. It wasnt on display overly much in league 1 as we didn't have the depth of players for it. I'm hopeful of a better season than I originally thought possible.

If as you suggest we could "flatline into championship mediocrity" then that will be more to do with finances than the manager as I don't subscribe to this notion that Warne won't play the kids. The kids have to be pretty exceptional in training or on loans away to step into the first team. First team games are not trial matches to develop youngsters. The academy looks to be shaping up pretty well again this year so lets hope we have a future star within its ranks. If we have I have no doubts Warne will play him.

You mention what will it cost us not keeping Bird, Knight & Sibley. My answer nothing! I wouldn't put any of them in our current midfield so I guess the manager has done pretty well in his decisions. 

In my opinion we are in for a very interesting season. I think we are mistakenly viewed as cannon fodder by the division which fuels the underdog mentality of the Rams faithful and as a result Pride Park has been rocking.  I may have egg on my face later in the season (and if I have so be it) but I'm hopeful going forward. UTR

[Anag Ram]

Just watching Freddie Flintoff’s programme and he says you learn more from losing. It made me think of our own situation.

On here, losing always seems to be an excuse to hurl invective at anyone and everyone. Warne gets the bulk of it.

Precious few predict a sparkling comeback from the players and staff yet we call ourselves supporters. What is a supporter? Is it just a person who celebrates success? No, it’s someone who sticks with you no matter what.

The mark of a true supporter is shouting even louder when the team needs it.

Warne isn’t perfect. He doesn’t profess to be perfect. He is trying to make Derby County successful. He and the players will make mistakes along the way. So will we.

I know the team has proved me wrong on a number of occasions. Let’s cut them some slack. It’s a tough league. We will lose. Sneering when we do helps nobody.

The support last Saturday was brilliant. Let’s bring that every week.

 

[Allen]

32 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Just watching Freddie Flintoff’s programme and he says you learn more from losing. It made me think of our own situation.

On here, losing always seems to be an excuse to hurl invective at anyone and everyone. Warne gets the bulk of it.

Precious few predict a sparkling comeback from the players and staff yet we call ourselves supporters. What is a supporter? Is it just a person who celebrates success? No, it’s someone who sticks with you no matter what.

The mark of a true supporter is shouting even louder when the team needs it.

Warne isn’t perfect. He doesn’t profess to be perfect. He is trying to make Derby County successful. He and the players will make mistakes along the way. So will we.

I know the team has proved me wrong on a number of occasions. Let’s cut them some slack. It’s a tough league. We will lose. Sneering when we do helps nobody.

The support last Saturday was brilliant. Let’s bring that every week.

 

Having a home crowd who fully back the team through thick and thin is vital this season. A rocking and raucous PP must be very intimidating for opponents. Our home record of late has been amazing and we need to do everything we can to ensure this continues.

[jono]

42 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Just watching Freddie Flintoff’s programme and he says you learn more from losing. It made me think of our own situation.

On here, losing always seems to be an excuse to hurl invective at anyone and everyone. Warne gets the bulk of it.

Precious few predict a sparkling comeback from the players and staff yet we call ourselves supporters. What is a supporter? Is it just a person who celebrates success? No, it’s someone who sticks with you no matter what.

The mark of a true supporter is shouting even louder when the team needs it.

Warne isn’t perfect. He doesn’t profess to be perfect. He is trying to make Derby County successful. He and the players will make mistakes along the way. So will we.

I know the team has proved me wrong on a number of occasions. Let’s cut them some slack. It’s a tough league. We will lose. Sneering when we do helps nobody.

The support last Saturday was brilliant. Let’s bring that every week.

 

A rocking pride park might not turn a loss in to a win but it is definitely worth a point per game. It’s the thing that makes players dig in to reserves, roll sleeves up, inspires guts, risk taking and that final stretch of sinew. I honestly believe last seasons final push was fuelled by vociferous determined supporters doing what we are supposed to do. Last Saturday, about half way through we looked like we were beginning to shade it in even game. The noise and support lifted the performance level, forced Bristols heads down and made us more adventurous. We didn’t just win (which we deserved to) we won well. The thick and thin thing you refer to is absolutely on the nail. 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

Just watching Freddie Flintoff’s programme and he says you learn more from losing. It made me think of our own situation.

On here, losing always seems to be an excuse to hurl invective at anyone and everyone. Warne gets the bulk of it.

Precious few predict a sparkling comeback from the players and staff yet we call ourselves supporters. What is a supporter? Is it just a person who celebrates success? No, it’s someone who sticks with you no matter what.

The mark of a true supporter is shouting even louder when the team needs it.

Warne isn’t perfect. He doesn’t profess to be perfect. He is trying to make Derby County successful. He and the players will make mistakes along the way. So will we.

I know the team has proved me wrong on a number of occasions. Let’s cut them some slack. It’s a tough league. We will lose. Sneering when we do helps nobody.

The support last Saturday was brilliant. Let’s bring that every week.

 

I agree, being a true supporter means offering vocal encouragement at the game (and financial support if you have the means) but it shouldn't prevent genuine, fair and mature criticism of the players and staff on forums like this. It's just that some folk go over the top (IMO) in their picking a scapegoat, seemingly refusing to recognise when things are good if it doesn't fit with their agenda and silly comments about individuals.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I think Warnes style of play is more akin to what we saw on good days in league 1 (but didn't have the players for consistancy) and what we saw in the second half particularly against Bristol City. Hard to break down but also fast, powerful, skillful attacking. It wasnt on display overly much in league 1 as we didn't have the depth of players for it. I'm hopeful of a better season than I originally thought possible.

Maybe it is. But how we played under him in league 1, how Rotherham played and how he talks about are pretty consistent with each other. And the words 'it'll look good when he get his players in/better players in' has been used in defence of every pragmatic manager who peddle garbage football and it almost always isn't true. Bristol is a positive step though and I really hope that's the plan.

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

If as you suggest we could "flatline into championship mediocrity" then that will be more to do with finances than the manager

But that's my whole point. Unless we do something different than what is typical that's where our finances will lead us. We need to find ways of acquiring the talent we need to progress without trying to compete in the same markets as a lot of the division. 

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I don't subscribe to this notion that Warne won't play the kids

The thing is he just hasn't been doing. The minutes that academy players have gotten before this season under Warne is extremely low even considering the upheaval going into league 1. I'm not suggesting they should have been starting week in, week out but more could and arguably should have been done. 

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

The kids have to be pretty exceptional in training or on loans away to step into the first team. First team games are not trial matches to develop youngsters.

The thing is if you take that position you'll only ever scratch the surface of what an academy can give you. If you look at most teams who have good through lines of producing their own talent, they are very frequently giving time to players before they are completely ready. Simply put players tend to grow faster the more they are exposed to higher levels with something like actual stakes. This is harsh but the issue with loans is you are often loaning to a worse coaching set up and it's not the same for a player as playing for their club. Loans can have there place but that can't be your primary through line. There are so many times during the course of season you can give academy players minutes if you have the intent without it having minimal impact on your team's success.  

 

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

You mention what will it cost us not keeping Bird, Knight & Sibley. My answer nothing! I wouldn't put any of them in our current midfield so I guess the manager has done pretty well in his decisions.

That's literally not true, of course it has a cost. All were sold/let go at a price point worse than what we would have got selling in the championship. Whether the cost was worth it or not is a whole different question. But the cost in the short-ish term isn't even the point I'm making, we don't truly know the cost of those decisions at this point. Look at Whittaker for example most people were falling over themselves saying how good a deal it was to get what we did for him in order to fuel some loans for Rooney and now his price tag is somewhere north of 10 million. Making decisions with a short term view is sometimes necessary but they do compound and you frequently end up worse of in the long run if you don't carefully balance it with appropriate planning for the future.

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

In my opinion we are in for a very interesting season. I think we are mistakenly viewed as cannon fodder by the division which fuels the underdog mentality of the Rams faithful and as a result Pride Park has been rocking.  I may have egg on my face later in the season (and if I have so be it) but I'm hopeful going forward. UTR

This I wholeheartedly agree with.

 

[On the Ram Page]

4 hours ago, Allen said:

Being an old bugger, I’ve supported the Rams since the Tim Ward era. PW is not the best Derby manager I’ve known (I think that award could go to one man only), but I honestly I feel he is about the best we could hope for at the moment. If you’d told me on the day he was appointed he’d have us promoted within 2 seasons, I would have been extremely happy. I didn’t care how we did it, we just had to get out of the awful League 1 asap.

PW to me is a much more intelligent manager than I think some give him credit for. I really don’t subscribe to the notion that PW only wants pace, power and athleticism. As the season develops, I’m confident he can deliver more aesthetically pleasing football and still get the points to keep us clear of the dreaded drop. Saturday was a great start and hopefully we can build on this in future weeks.

I like your post but a couple of points:

BC could not manage a club/team today as he did in the late 60’s/70’s. Managed largely by fear and couldn’t abide agents. All has changed in the modern world with many good players millionaires and handled by agents. I think BC would still be a good motivator and get the best out of players.

The strong point I agree with is that I think Warne is an intelligent chap. He knew what was needed to get out of League 1 and achieved it. He has seen relegation from  the Champ but in my opinion he will know why this occurred and what is needed to consolidate in the league. Not afraid to change a winning team promoted from League 1 - does anyone disagree with the upgrades he has made.? Maybe Bird & Sibley but they chose to leave. He knows we still need better players but with our limited  budget has made significant improvements. 
 

The game against Bristol City surprised many by the style of our win but he has always said that he wants athletic players, with pace, aggression to hurt the opposition. I believe he ultimately wants to play like Liverpool or Man City, although we are miles away from that standard yet. In his own way he is a very good man manager and hopefully the players confidence will continue to improve and believe that they can cope in the Championship.

But I do believe he is an intelligent bloke who recognises how far his current players can achieve (even if he is slightly risk averse). I am hoping many may be surprised how we fair this year and would expect the January window to improve things further (if necessary).

[Steve How Hard?]

4 hours ago, Carnero said:

I'm not sure that there are both "Warne In" and "Warne Out" camps really.

There's certainly a "Warne Out" camp from a handful of one dimensional posters, then there's everybody else who sees both pros and cons with Warne, as there are with most other managers.

Anyone who disagrees with some of the nonsense posted by the "Warne Out" camp is automatically thrown into the "Warne In" camp rather than just being somebody that disagrees with nonsense!

Nonsense!

The microwave is for soup and drying socks!

You'll get mullered for that post and ricely so. 😉

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I agree, being a true supporter means offering vocal encouragement at the game (and financial support if you have the means) but it shouldn't prevent genuine, fair and mature criticism of the players and staff on forums like this. It's just that some folk go over the top (IMO) in their picking a scapegoat, seemingly refusing to recognise when things are good if it doesn't fit with their agenda and silly comments about individuals.

I do think we also need to be mindful that this is a public forum and a targeted one that can also be a pull to players , managers , owners and staff , in the old days we might have been a bit ott in a private conversation in the pub or elsewhere and emotions can come to the surface and you coat off players , managers ect but that conversation is gone once it’s spoken and very unlikely to be overheard by the people we are speaking about , on here it’s different, what we write is like a published piece and stays there for all to see , I know that thought influences me to be more protective of individual s being slated  if only to make it clear if anybody is reading this stuff about themselves that it’s not the opinion of all and some people quite like them and they’re efforts , daft I know but that’s just how it makes me feel

[Jourdan]

17 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Smith, Hourihane and Bird to Ozoh, Adams, Goudmijn is a definite increase in athleticism. Overall, there is more pace, power, and ability to drive forward on the ball.

Or are you claiming the latter 3 are better at neat/intricate passing than the former 3?

For the system Warne wants (intense pressing and quick counters), then athleticism is top of the list for requirements - you need to be fit, quick, strong, and good at dribbling. Jackson and Mendez-Laing being as successful as they are also meet these criteria, whislt Elder and Wilson are the two fittest players at the club.

Cashin, Nelson, Goudmijn, Adams, Ozoh, Méndez Laing, Jackson and Yates is the core of the team. It’s a nice balance of skill and physicality. If we could afford it, I think the skill level would be heightened.

We ended the season with Adams, Smith and Bird as our first choice midfield. Goudmijn will hopefully replace Bird’s composure, vision and creativity. It’s only really Ozoh that has a more athletic profile compared to the midfielders we had in League 1, adding much needed height, strength and ball carrying intent.

Surely if Warne saw athleticism as a priority, he would have opted for someone different to Goudmijn and even someone different to Osborn arguably. I think his ideal midfielder would be the best of a Goudmijn and the best of an Ozoh, but of course you are looking at a £20 million plus player.

I think to see the passing style some demand, we need extra quality and composure. Players who demand the ball and make time for themselves and others. It’s no coincidence we played our best football under Warne with McGoldrick as the key player. We haven’t had a player since with that quality and the ability to link play together in the same way and with the same consistency. We have players that can do it but the regularity is few and far between, hence the Bristol City performance being less common.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think Warne values athleticism but I don’t think it’s at the expense of skill. He wants them to complement each other and deliver an entertaining, winning team that everyone can appreciate.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

I do think we also need to be mindful that this is a public forum and a targeted one that can also be a pull to players , managers , owners and staff , in the old days we might have been a bit ott in a private conversation in the pub or elsewhere and emotions can come to the surface and you coat off players , managers ect but that conversation is gone once it’s spoken and very unlikely to be overheard by the people we are speaking about , on here it’s different, what we write is like a published piece and stays there for all to see , I know that thought influences me to be more protective of individual s being slated  if only to make it clear if anybody is reading this stuff about themselves that it’s not the opinion of all and some people quite like them and they’re efforts , daft I know but that’s just how it makes me feel

You may be right but I’d be very surprised if the people you have mentioned take much notice of what a handful of people post on a forum like this. There is far more toxic stuff posted on the likes of X.

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

You may be right but I’d be very surprised if the people you have mentioned take much notice of what a handful of people post on a forum like this. There is far more toxic stuff posted on the likes of X.

I was thinking in general terms and including x and others though I don’t use them ( I only really use this forum ) but I wouldn’t be surprised if a fair few players and staff have a scan on here as so much will be about them, you may be right though but I tend to not be ott insulting just in case , 

[Nuwtfly]

Some posters on here got very, very frustrated by the "overreaction" (as they saw it) to the Barrow game.

Is the same thing not happening a bit here with the Bristol City game?

[Archied]

1 minute ago, Nuwtfly said:

Some posters on here got very, very frustrated by the "overreaction" (as they saw it) to the Barrow game.

Is the same thing not happening a bit here with the Bristol City game?

Perhaps with some but there’s many like myself who are just comfortable enough with warne and our progress/ results to give him some patience and space to show if he can build something good at derby only time wil tell much the same as for anyone who replaced him

[Tamworthram]

26 minutes ago, Archied said:

I was thinking in general terms and including x and others though I don’t use them ( I only really use this forum ) but I wouldn’t be surprised if a fair few players and staff have a scan on here as so much will be about them, you may be right though but I tend to not be ott insulting just in case , 

Yep, I try to avoid OTT insults but mainly because I try, but don’t always succeed, in being a reasonable human being.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Cashin, Nelson, Goudmijn, Adams, Ozoh, Méndez Laing, Jackson and Yates is the core of the team. It’s a nice balance of skill and physicality. If we could afford it, I think the skill level would be heightened.

We ended the season with Adams, Smith and Bird as our first choice midfield. Goudmijn will hopefully replace Bird’s composure, vision and creativity. It’s only really Ozoh that has a more athletic profile compared to the midfielders we had in League 1, adding much needed height, strength and ball carrying intent.

Surely if Warne saw athleticism as a priority, he would have opted for someone different to Goudmijn and even someone different to Osborn arguably. I think his ideal midfielder would be the best of a Goudmijn and the best of an Ozoh, but of course you are looking at a £20 million plus player.

I think to see the passing style some demand, we need extra quality and composure. Players who demand the ball and make time for themselves and others. It’s no coincidence we played our best football under Warne with McGoldrick as the key player. We haven’t had a player since with that quality and the ability to link play together in the same way and with the same consistency. We have players that can do it but the regularity is few and far between, hence the Bristol City performance being less common.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think Warne values athleticism but I don’t think it’s at the expense of skill. He wants them to complement each other and deliver an entertaining, winning team that everyone can appreciate.

Adams was a Warne signing to add pace and energy to our midfield - eventually knocking Hourihane out of the 11.

Goudmijn's best attribute is breaking forward on the ball. Whilst not an 'athlete' in the sense of pace or power, his dribbling on the ball from midfield is something we've lacked since Knight left as is an attribute Warne values.

Osborn has always been regarded as a hard working player with a good engine. Sheff Utd fans stated he lacks technical ability.

All of our other permanent signings under Warne have at least one 'athletic' element to their game, some having multiple.

Blackett-Taylor is a quick winger, with an ability to carry to ball forward.

Ward, Elder and Wilson are all very fit full/wing backs, Wilson having a bit of pace and good at dribbling forward, whilst Elder wins a lot in the air of a LB. Nyambe is a strong and quick full back.

Fornah is a CM who won a lot in the air, covered a lot of ground and drove forward on the ball.

Bradley is dominant in the air. Nelson is good in the air and drives forward out of defence on the ball.

Washington is/was a pacy/numble forward who drives forward on the ball and likes to break behind CBs. Waghorn was a hard working forward who won the ball back high up the pitch and offered a physical presence up front.

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Adams was a Warne signing to add pace and energy to our midfield - eventually knocking Hourihane out of the 11.

Goudmijn's best attribute is breaking forward on the ball. Whilst not an 'athlete' in the sense of pace or power, his dribbling on the ball from midfield is something we've lacked since Knight left as is an attribute Warne values.

Osborn has always been regarded as a hard working player with a good engine. Sheff Utd fans stated he lacks technical ability.

All of our other permanent signings under Warne have at least one 'athletic' element to their game, some having multiple.

Blackett-Taylor is a quick winger, with an ability to carry to ball forward.

Ward, Elder and Wilson are all very fit full/wing backs, Wilson having a bit of pace and good at dribbling forward, whilst Elder wins a lot in the air of a LB. Nyambe is a strong and quick full back.

Fornah is a CM who won a lot in the air, covered a lot of ground and drove forward on the ball.

Bradley is dominant in the air. Nelson is good in the air and drives forward out of defence on the ball.

Washington is/was a pacy/numble forward who drives forward on the ball and likes to break behind CBs. Waghorn was a hard working forward who won the ball back high up the pitch and offered a physical presence up front.

Does this show that Warne prefers athleticism over skill? To me it shows he is acting through necessity over preference. If you have a limited budget, the pool of players typically available (particularly on the domestic market) tend to have physical strengths rather than technical strengths.

If you are operating at the top of League 1 or the lower reaches of the Championship, it stands to reason genuinely good technical footballers are hard to come by, whether that’s due to cost or due to the scarcity of them. Technically good players tend to find their way to a higher level and tend to come with a premium that clubs in our position can seldom afford.

With modern football as it is, the domestic game produces more and more players with those physical attributes you highlighted (pace, power, stamina, aerial presence) to prepare for what are largely fast, intense and physical games, so maybe even if Warne prefers skill, maybe he knows it would be disadvantageous to have a team full of Max Birds getting bullied and overrun.

Most teams at this level and below model themselves on having strong and dominant defences and athletic midfields so there is a huge element of having to fight fire with fire and match up well, hence why we have signed the likes of Nyambe, Nelson, Phillips, Adams and Ozoh to help us compete.

The higher up the pyramid you go, the more you see players with a blend of skill and physicality and the occasional player who is purely technical and can be a difference maker.

I imagine if we got to the PL with Warne and he had a budget of £150 million, he would do what is necessary to compete. If that meant signing technical players, I think he would go down that route. I don’t think there is a fixation over having players who are the biggest or the fastest or the strongest. It’s just reacting to the demands of modern football. 

Edited September 5 by Jourdan