Has DC lost faith in the recruitment process?

[sage]

After the unsuccessful signings, for various reasons, of TJJ, MW, CW, JW, SB and EE, has Clowes lost faith in our ability to spend money wisely?

The Bird transfer has obviously been in the process for weeks, yet no permanent signings lined up.

 

[RoyMac5]

Don't imagine DC gets involved in the workings, he just okays the overall budget?

[Tyler Durden]

Too many acronyms so hard to comment at all 

Then we can get into the tedious debate of what you define as successful yada yada 

[sage]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Too many acronyms so hard to comment at all 

Then we can get into the tedious debate of what you define as successful yada yada 

Oh dear.

Initials not acronyms.

I thought you'd enjoy a tedious debate. You've made this one tedious already 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, sage said:

After the unsuccessful signings, for various reasons, of TJJ, MW, CW, JW, SB and EE, has Clowes lost faith in our ability to spend money wisely?

The Bird transfer has obviously been in the process for weeks, yet no permanent signings lined up.

 

The process used for this season will need to be overhaulled. 12 summer signings and a further 2 in January, of which only 3 are likely to be regular starters is absolutely shocking (Nelson, Nyambe, Blackett-Taylor). This is also after the squad failed to place top last season, losing 3 of our first 11 (Roberts, Knight and McGoldrick) and not even having a right back in the entire squad.

It's summarised by having no long term vision. That's in terms of: a) bringing in younger players who will either maintain their current standards for longer, or have room for improvement; or b) planning how the players will fit into the team.

Warne put a clear focus on older and more experience players, based on the rationale of higher wages equates to better players. If more budget is put towards the wages, we'll end up with a stronger squad of players.
Warne also had no plan on how to fit the players into the team. This is demonstrated by early summer recruitment being with 3421 in mind, which quickly changed to 352, and then alternating between 442 and 4231 during the season so far. We signed a LB (Elder) to play as a wing back, but also signed Nyambe (RB) after already signing 2 wing backs. He also signed a slow CB who cannot play in a high line and is uncomfortable on the ball under pressure. We've basically got through from October with only 1 fully fit forward whowas 2nd choice last season and failed to improve on in the summer AND January.
The style of play our CF targets prefer also varied. Summer targets like Harris, Rhodes and Sharp all have different strengths and weaknesses. Similar with January targets such as Smith, Gregory, Mubama, Ennis. It's just a scattergun approach all round. Most of these targets compromise on the high intensity press Warne wants to implement too.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The process used for this season will need to be overhaulled. 12 summer signings and a further 2 in January, of which only 3 are likely to be regular starters is absolutely shocking (Nelson, Nyambe, Blackett-Taylor). This is also after the squad failed to place top last season, losing 3 of our first 11 (Roberts, Knight and McGoldrick) and not even having a right back in the entire squad.

It's summarised by having no long term vision. That's in terms of: a) bringing in younger players who will either maintain their current standards for longer, or have room for improvement; or b) planning how the players will fit into the team.

Warne put a clear focus on older and more experience players, based on the rationale of higher wages equates to better players. If more budget is put towards the wages, we'll end up with a stronger squad of players.
Warne also had no plan on how to fit the players into the team. This is demonstrated by early summer recruitment being with 3421 in mind, which quickly changed to 352, and then alternating between 442 and 4231 during the season so far. We signed a LB (Elder) to play as a wing back, but also signed Nyambe (RB) after already signing 2 wing backs. He also signed a slow CB who cannot play in a high line and is uncomfortable on the ball under pressure. We've basically got through from October with only 1 fully fit forward whowas 2nd choice last season and failed to improve on in the summer AND January.
The style of play our CF targets prefer also varied. Summer targets like Harris, Rhodes and Sharp all have different strengths and weaknesses. Similar with January targets such as Smith, Gregory, Mubama, Ennis. It's just a scattergun approach all round. Most of these targets compromise on the high intensity press Warne wants to implement too.

Just want to add, absolutely spot on. 👏 

All I can hope is that Warne 'gets lucky' on a formation like last season and we do enough to go up. Or next season in league 1 with Warne would be unfathomable.

[BathRam72]

The plain fact is, we do not know what the budget is, what restrictions are still hanging over our heads. If you have to rely on loans, you can only go for what is available at the time. Same for free agents. On top of that they have to want to come here. 

So your ocean of talent becomes a fish pond.

I can see some logic in picking experience over youth if you are targeting a quick return,  it has its risks. But surely going for youth is riskier. 

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have any restrictions and at this level, pretty much the pick of the best available at that level.

Some transfers will work, some won't. 

I still say, bring in a position to go for top two at this stage with what we have is pretty good.  We should only get stronger as our injured players return.

[BaianoPOTY98]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Just want to add, absolutely spot on. 👏 

All I can hope is that Warne 'gets lucky' on a formation like last season and we do enough to go up. Or next season in league 1 with Warne would be unfathomable.

After poor recruitment in the summer and the shambles of yesterday I will be surprised to still see Warne around next year if we’re still in Division One 

[RoyMac5]

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

[sage]

15 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

The plain fact is, we do not know what the budget is, what restrictions are still hanging over our heads. If you have to rely on loans, you can only go for what is available at the time. Same for free agents. On top of that they have to want to come here. 

So your ocean of talent becomes a fish pond.

I can see some logic in picking experience over youth if you are targeting a quick return,  it has its risks. But surely going for youth is riskier. 

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have any restrictions and at this level, pretty much the pick of the best available at that level.

Some transfers will work, some won't. 

I still say, bring in a position to go for top two at this stage with what we have is pretty good.  We should only get stronger as our injured players return.

We were told we had some money for transfer fees. We also had the Bird fee.

We are Collins injury away form not finishing top 6.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

Not just forwards, but this is the full list of January loans in League 1 (bold = players I think would have improved us).

GK: Louie Moulden, Jamie Cumming, Craig MacGillivray
CB: Caleb Taylor, Elkan Baggott, Sean Grehan, Andy Smith, Jack Shepherd, Elijah Campbell, Rhys Williams, Kacper Lopata, Zane Monlouis, Charlie Goode, Nigel Lonwijk
LB: Hayden Coulson, Nathanael Ogbeta, Tolaji Bola, Harry Boyes, Imari Samuels, Nesta Guinness-Walker, Luke Chambers, Saxon Earley
RB: Calvin Ramsay, James Gibbons
DM/CM/AM: George Byers, Brandon Aguilera, Harry Vaughan, Tyreeq Bakinson, Lewis Fiorini, Luke Harris, Ryan Woods, Gavin Kilkenny, Conor McGrandles, Jay Matete, Myles Peart-Harris, Jensen Weir, Dan Gore, Jack Hinchy, Chem Campbell
RW: Jonathan Leko, Michael Olakigbe
LW: Jack Diamond, Tony Springett, Alex Mighten
CF: Freddie Ladapo, Joe Hugill, Ola-Adebomi, Kyle Hudlin, Antwoine Hackford, Macauley Bonne, Joe Nuttall, Mo Eisa, Daniel Adu-Adjei, Khayon Edwards, Joe Taylor, Tyler Burey, Vadine Oliver, Charlie Kelman, Gideon Kodua
 

[Animal is a Ram]

35 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The process used for this season will need to be overhaulled. 12 summer signings and a further 2 in January, of which only 3 are likely to be regular starters is absolutely shocking (Nelson, Nyambe, Blackett-Taylor). This is also after the squad failed to place top last season, losing 3 of our first 11 (Roberts, Knight and McGoldrick) and not even having a right back in the entire squad.

It's summarised by having no long term vision. That's in terms of: a) bringing in younger players who will either maintain their current standards for longer, or have room for improvement; or b) planning how the players will fit into the team.

Warne put a clear focus on older and more experience players, based on the rationale of higher wages equates to better players. If more budget is put towards the wages, we'll end up with a stronger squad of players.
Warne also had no plan on how to fit the players into the team. This is demonstrated by early summer recruitment being with 3421 in mind, which quickly changed to 352, and then alternating between 442 and 4231 during the season so far. We signed a LB (Elder) to play as a wing back, but also signed Nyambe (RB) after already signing 2 wing backs. He also signed a slow CB who cannot play in a high line and is uncomfortable on the ball under pressure. We've basically got through from October with only 1 fully fit forward whowas 2nd choice last season and failed to improve on in the summer AND January.
The style of play our CF targets prefer also varied. Summer targets like Harris, Rhodes and Sharp all have different strengths and weaknesses. Similar with January targets such as Smith, Gregory, Mubama, Ennis. It's just a scattergun approach all round. Most of these targets compromise on the high intensity press Warne wants to implement too.

Or as I like to call it - the promoted at any cost. Far too much sense in one post for this forum though.

[BathRam72]

59 minutes ago, sage said:

We were told we had some money for transfer fees. We also had the Bird fee.

We are Collins injury away form not finishing top 6.

 

No one actually knows how much money is for transfers.  I could say I have savings, you won't know how much. Money for Max Bird might not be there until he actually leaves again you and I will not know. Or that money might be used already for other debts. The Max deal might not have been sealed until it was too larlte for us to recruit. You will never know. Shoulda,  woulda   coulda. 

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, sage said:

Oh dear.

Initials not acronyms.

I thought you'd enjoy a tedious debate. You've made this one tedious already 

 

I can't even do that as I haven't the foggiest who you are talking about 

[sage]

We were told we could pay transfer fees.

We were then told we could pay fees if we sold someone.

We sold someone.

We have one fit CF.

No one wants the return of Mel Morris splurges but we have the biggest turnover in the league and only 1 fit CF.

This is not a good position.

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

Wonder what direction this thread will take 

[Jourdan]

I think Clowes is as committed as ever. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have sanctioned the move for CBT, for example. £400,000 is £400,000 more than he might have felt necessary.

If you look at the signings since he took over the club, I think Clowes has tried to build a competitive team and strike a good balance between ambition and prudence.

People want to complain about our transfer business this season, but every season has cases of players not working out. I think people seem to forget that only 11 players can play at any one time and not every signing will work because other players are getting game time and playing well and getting recognition.

Last season, there were senior players like Stearman, Davies, Chester and Loach who barely got a kick. There were young players signed like Oduroh who never looked like making an impact. So it happens, not just with Warne signings but there are all kinds of managers get signings wrong. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think Clowes is as committed as ever. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have sanctioned the move for CBT, for example. £400,000 is £400,000 more than he might have felt necessary.

If you look at the signings since he took over the club, I think Clowes has tried to build a competitive team and strike a good balance between ambition and prudence.

People want to complain about our transfer business this season, but every season has cases of players not working out. I think people seem to forget that only 11 players can play at any one time and not every signing will work because other players are getting game time and playing well and getting recognition.

Last season, there were senior players like Stearman, Davies, Chester and Loach who barely got a kick. There were young players signed like Oduroh who never looked like making an impact. So it happens, not just with Warne signings but there are all kinds of managers get signings wrong. 

Added 100 k there.  That's a million it seems under our current budget.

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

Didn't he say earlier in the week we'd lost out to another League 1 club on a striker we wanted.

Edited February 2 by Gee SCREAMER !!

[Ram-Alf]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The process used for this season will need to be overhaulled. 12 summer signings and a further 2 in January, of which only 3 are likely to be regular starters is absolutely shocking (Nelson, Nyambe, Blackett-Taylor). This is also after the squad failed to place top last season, losing 3 of our first 11 (Roberts, Knight and McGoldrick) and not even having a right back in the entire squad.

It's summarised by having no long term vision. That's in terms of: a) bringing in younger players who will either maintain their current standards for longer, or have room for improvement; or b) planning how the players will fit into the team.

Warne put a clear focus on older and more experience players, based on the rationale of higher wages equates to better players. If more budget is put towards the wages, we'll end up with a stronger squad of players.
Warne also had no plan on how to fit the players into the team. This is demonstrated by early summer recruitment being with 3421 in mind, which quickly changed to 352, and then alternating between 442 and 4231 during the season so far. We signed a LB (Elder) to play as a wing back, but also signed Nyambe (RB) after already signing 2 wing backs. He also signed a slow CB who cannot play in a high line and is uncomfortable on the ball under pressure. We've basically got through from October with only 1 fully fit forward whowas 2nd choice last season and failed to improve on in the summer AND January.
The style of play our CF targets prefer also varied. Summer targets like Harris, Rhodes and Sharp all have different strengths and weaknesses. Similar with January targets such as Smith, Gregory, Mubama, Ennis. It's just a scattergun approach all round. Most of these targets compromise on the high intensity press Warne wants to implement too.

So wot ya sayin GoC 😬

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

No one actually knows how much money is for transfers.  I could say I have savings, you won't know how much. 

I'm going for £987.28 in the bank, and £114,700 behind the Bath panel... in cash... wrapped in cling film.