Has DC lost faith in the recruitment process?

[Returning ram]

4 hours ago, richinspain said:

I agree with your first paragraph, but only when you're in the position Pep is in should your second paragraph apply. As I have quoted many times - King Arthur Cox, "I was looking for Ted McMinn's replacement 5 minutes after he signed for me"*
You should ALWAYS be looking to buy better than what you already have. What you have then becomes your reserve player (yes, I know, you also need to keep those now reserve players happy).

*contextual

Agreed, however sometimes it won't always work like that. I used Pep as an example on purpose, he brought Phillips in but admitted defeat in being unable to adapt to what he wants. He has brought Grealish in and took a season for him to adapt.

 

Point I was trying to make is that looking at his signings and saying it's scattergun is just lazy argument and not looking at the bigger picture. I'm also not saying he has got it right, because on some it's clear he hasn't.

[RadioactiveWaste]

In answer to the title, no I don't DC has lost any faith, he's given trust to those who are doing the running and will almost certainly consider himself to new to ownership to be an authority on the risks and rewards of recruitment of players. As long as there are no obviously terrible deals (and i mean the deal not is x player good) I don't think he'd have any reason to.

The team are well placed in the league, they've secured a key target in CBT and avoided panic deals, which as an owner is probably preferable to being begged to stum up a small fortune at short notice for a deal that may not look that attractive because it's what's on the table as the clock ticks down.

I'm sure it'll be reviewed at the end of the season.

 

[davenportram]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

I’ve seen no proof whatsoever that your claims are factual.  This is DCs budget and I don’t expect to see a radical change in it in the summer.  No transfer takes place for any club without EFL oversight.  Really happy to be proven wrong 

Not seen the quotes about two pots for transfers? The business plan was part of the process of coming out of administration. It has agreed spending limits in. Do keep up

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Not seen the quotes about two pots for transfers? The business plan was part of the process of coming out of administration. It has agreed spending limits in. Do keep up

Don’t be insulting.  Nothing you have indicated shows we are working to  an exceptional EFL restriction.  We maybe of course but someone needs to prove it.  I still hold to the belief that we are working within our own budget.  We have used the loan pot for a purchase and pre advised EFL so they don’t assume it is another underhand trick.  DC is rightly cautious and may even use some of the sale proceeds from Bird and maybe even has from Knight to help cover some of the running costs.  We will see when the transfer pot gets used in the summer

[davenportram]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

Don’t be insulting.  Nothing you have indicated shows we are working to  an exceptional EFL restriction.  We maybe of course but someone needs to prove it.  I still hold to the belief that we are working within our own budget.  We have used the loan pot for a purchase and pre advised EFL so they don’t assume it is another underhand trick.  DC is rightly cautious and may even use some of the sale proceeds from Bird and maybe even has from Knight to help cover some of the running costs.  We will see when the transfer pot gets used in the summer

Go back and read around the conditions for leaving administration. We are operating under an agreed EFL business plan for two years. Every transaction has to be within this business plan.

[Spanish]

Just now, davenportram said:

Go back and read around the conditions for leaving administration. We are operating under an agreed EFL business plan for two years. Every transaction has to be within this business plan.

Yes our business plan

[davenportram]

1 minute ago, Spanish said:

Yes our business plan

Nope agreed with the EFL so they have input on what we can spend 

[davenportram]

3 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Yes our business plan

A simple google yields this 

https://www.efl.com/news/2022/july/efl-statement-derby-county-exit-administration/

 

but of course doesn’t fit what you think or your complaint of Warner’s actions

 

 

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Nope agreed with the EFL so they have input on what we can spend 

Nope our business plan that DC believes is competitive that was presented to the EFL who had no objections to OUR plan

[davenportram]

8 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Nope our business plan that DC believes is competitive that was presented to the EFL who had no objections to OUR plan

Every signing still has to be ratified by the league financially which is more than other clubs have to go through - en extra level of scrutiny, a registration embargo and agreed wage caps and transfer fee caps. Hardly a free reign for DC to set his own budget

[Returning ram]

10 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I did laugh at "don't bring in players to replace your better ones, no point" when we finished 7th last season and 3 of most used 11 moved on in the summer.

So you'd replace Halland at City for example, or you'd bring someone in elsewhere that's needed 😏 Not difficut to understand.

Also seems his scattergun approach wasn't to bad today....

[Tamworthram]

5 hours ago, Spanish said:

Nope our business plan that DC believes is competitive that was presented to the EFL who had no objections to OUR plan

It is “our plan” but I’m sure in my mind that DC and his team wrote it with a view on what sort of figures were likely to be approved by the EFL. For all we know the EFL may well have given a clear indication of what they were likely to approve. 

[richinspain]

On 03/02/2024 at 21:55, Returning ram said:

So you'd replace Halland at City for example, or you'd bring someone in elsewhere that's needed 😏 Not difficut to understand.

Also seems his scattergun approach wasn't to bad today....

For me Man City are the worst club you can compare us to. They're one of the best teams in the world. We're a third division club, with third division players. We should be looking to improve on ALL of players. Obviously there should be priorities, but there isn't one player who couldn't be improved upon.

[Returning ram]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

For me Man City are the worst club you can compare us to. They're one of the best teams in the world. We're a third division club, with third division players. We should be looking to improve on ALL of players. Obviously there should be priorities, but there isn't one player who couldn't be improved upon.

The principle is the same with every club though. Would you go out next season and replace Cashin, no but you might bring in a back up if you felt it was required.

To say he has brought in 12 players, when 3 were strikers for example and then say only a few are playing, is once again playing with numbers to make a point. RB we had no one last season, so it would make sense to bring more than one in but you can't fit them all in your starting 11. Your building a squad, for the season.

Of course if you had an unlimited budget  you would look to improve on every player, but there are always going to be certain ones that you say, they are doing a good job I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[MadAmster]

On 02/02/2024 at 13:41, RoyMac5 said:

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

No. PW only wants players who will improve the team. Then there's the added complication of the "business plan". I get the impression many are thinking "roll on the summer then we can go out and spend". Problem is that isn't going to happen. Why not? David Clowes has told us that the club will be self sufficient and the financial situation will be sustainable. To me, that means we will spend no more than we have generated in income. 

We lost £6.8M in the first 9 months following the exit from administration. Gates are around 690 a game down on average so I'm not expecting the accounts for this season to be suddenly showing a profit. That means, for next season, as with this season, we will have ticket receipts, sponsorship and advertising revenue and that's it. If we're still in L1 then we'll have a similar amount to this season to spend. If we go up I'd expect us to have slightly more. That means we will still be limited on transfer and loan fees and on wages. That will put "proven" players like Clarke-Harris out of our budgetary range. It is unlikely we will see 7 figure buys. What will we see, then? More of the same? Some of it, yes, Apparently PW is now wanting to look abroad which is a good idea. 

I'd also be more than happy for PW to start showing some faith in the likes of Fapetu, Robinson, Weston etc. One would hope he gets some pressure to do so as Clowes was determined to retain the Academy's status and ignoring their better prospects goes against what DC appears to want... and he holds the purse strings. Next season, the kids will all be a year older, wiser, bigger and stronger. I say, give them a chance.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

No. PW only wants players who will improve the team. Then there's the added complication of the "business plan". I get the impression many are thinking "roll on the summer then we can go out and spend". Problem is that isn't going to happen. Why not? David Clowes has told us that the club will be self sufficient and the financial situation will be sustainable. To me, that means we will spend no more than we have generated in income. 

We lost £6.8M in the first 9 months following the exit from administration. Gates are around 690 a game down on average so I'm not expecting the accounts for this season to be suddenly showing a profit. That means, for next season, as with this season, we will have ticket receipts, sponsorship and advertising revenue and that's it. If we're still in L1 then we'll have a similar amount to this season to spend. If we go up I'd expect us to have slightly more. That means we will still be limited on transfer and loan fees and on wages. That will put "proven" players like Clarke-Harris out of our budgetary range. It is unlikely we will see 7 figure buys. What will we see, then? More of the same? Some of it, yes, Apparently PW is now wanting to look abroad which is a good idea. 

I'd also be more than happy for PW to start showing some faith in the likes of Fapetu, Robinson, Weston etc. One would hope he gets some pressure to do so as Clowes was determined to retain the Academy's status and ignoring their better prospects goes against what DC appears to want... and he holds the purse strings. Next season, the kids will all be a year older, wiser, bigger and stronger. I say, give them a chance.

Due to the sales of Knight and Bird we will have received a bit of profit to balacne the books a bit - although the sale of Bielik will have actually cost us approximately £1m in accountign terms (book value at the start of the season was around £1.5m and reportedly sold him for £500k plus add-ons. I think the wage bill will have come down this season (as we were paying Bielik's wages last season but received the cash from Birmingham to supsidize the amount).
For the full year, we're probably loking at a £8.5m loss for 22/23, and £4m loss for 23/24.

[MadAmster]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Due to the sales of Knight and Bird we will have received a bit of profit to balacne the books a bit - although the sale of Bielik will have actually cost us approximately £1m in accountign terms (book value at the start of the season was around £1.5m and reportedly sold him for £500k plus add-ons. I think the wage bill will have come down this season (as we were paying Bielik's wages last season but received the cash from Birmingham to supsidize the amount).
For the full year, we're probably loking at a £8.5m loss for 22/23, and £4m loss for 23/24.

My point exactly. Anybody expecting big signings in the summer is going to be very disappointed

[richinspain]

39 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

The principle is the same with every club though. Would you go out next season and replace Cashin, no but you might bring in a back up if you felt it was required.

To say he has brought in 12 players, when 3 were strikers for example and then say only a few are playing, is once again playing with numbers to make a point. RB we had no one last season, so it would make sense to bring more than one in but you can't fit them all in your starting 11. Your building a squad, for the season.

Of course if you had an unlimited budget  you would look to improve on every player, but there are always going to be certain ones that you say, they are doing a good job I'll spend my money elsewhere.

No, I personally wouldn't replace Cashin next season, but I would replace Nelson (although he has been excellent this season and possibly my player of the season). As I said, ALL players are replaceable, but we can only do it within our (real) financial restrictions. I don't doubt for a secon that if Pep felt that he could replace Haaland with someone better then he would do. He also buys squad players, but those players are costing him what, 50 million quid? We aren't able to spend even a tenth of that sum on the whole squad, but we certainly should be replacing current players with better.

[simmoram1995]

If we go up we will need to invest heavily and wisely upgrading the team.

GK - maybe an upgrade 

RB- generally ok

LB- yes 

CB - maybe an upgrade on Nelson 

CM- at least two 

W- maybe another RM 

SK- 2-3 

your talking maybe double figures again 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

If we go up we will need to invest heavily and wisely upgrading the team.

GK - maybe an upgrade 

RB- generally ok

LB- yes 

CB - maybe an upgrade on Nelson 

CM- at least two 

W- maybe another RM 

SK- 2-3 

your talking maybe double figures again 

Too many variables to say at this point. League determines how many, intended formation determines type of players and positions.

With a healthy squad size of 23 and assuming we retain everyone who is under contract for next season, we are 10 players short. I could realistically see Wildsmith, Forsyth, Sibley, Adams, Thompson and Collins all having a role to play within the squad, even in the Championship. That's potentially just 4 players we need to repalce in the summer. However, I think we'll see 1 or 2 players who are under contract loaned out or sold.