Has DC lost faith in the recruitment process?

[FKANorwichExile]

It's been a bit of a nightmare window. I'd banked on us strengthening, Peterborough selling some of their assets (they didn't, and the one they did they loaned back) and the other top 6 scatter-gunning in some panic buys that weakened the overall team (ala Billy Davies promotion season)..

Whatever happens this season, I think we'll see Warne forced to follow the Director of Football guys transfer strategy next season, because what we have done this year flat hasn't worked. Yes, freak injuries to Embleton and Ward haven't helped, but we shouldn't be surprised that old men and kids made of glass have fallen apart when we needed them.

[DRBee]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

 

If you look at the signings since he took over the club, I think Clowes has tried to build a competitive team and strike a good balance between ambition and prudence.

People want to complain about our transfer business this season, but every season has cases of players not working out. I think people seem to forget that only 11 players can play at any one time and not every signing will work because other players are getting game time and playing well and getting recognition.

 

Don't believe Clowes will be micromanaging  the building of the team as your post suggests.

Its not a case of players not working out but that the strategy doesn't meet the main needs. There is a clear need for another striker. having o nly one regularly fit competent striker takes us back to the problems we had when under EFL sanction, when we are /should be in a much better position to acquire new players now. Admittedly Collins is doing well but we need cover if we are undertaking a promotion push. We had the same striker issue last summer  and have learnt nowt from that.

[Jourdan]

2 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Don't believe Clowes will be micromanaging  the building of the team as your post suggests.

Its not a case of players not working out but that the strategy doesn't meet the main needs. There is a clear need for another striker. having o nly one regularly fit competent striker takes us back to the problems we had when under EFL sanction, when we are /should be in a much better position to acquire new players now. Admittedly Collins is doing well but we need cover if we are undertaking a promotion push. We had the same striker issue last summer  and have learnt nowt from that.

I don’t mean in the sense of Clowes has said ‘we must sign X, Y, Z.’

I mean it in the sense of the financial support Clowes has provided. I think he has wanted to back the manager and give him as reasonable a budget as possible.

Obviously the strategy is dependent on the business plan. Let’s see how things pan out in the summer where hopefully we’ll have more financial freedom.

[Van der MoodHoover]

35 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t mean in the sense of Clowes has said ‘we must sign X, Y, Z.’

I mean it in the sense of the financial support Clowes has provided. I think he has wanted to back the manager and give him as reasonable a budget as possible.

Obviously the strategy is dependent on the business plan. Let’s see how things pan out in the summer where hopefully we’ll have more financial freedom.

Let's bookmark this discussion. IMO it hasn't been the budget but the strategy at fault and which needs to change.

I don't buy that the strategy pursued by Warne was the only one or even the best one for the available budget.

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Apparently we can only sign players better than the ones other teams have recruited? An odd process. 😄 

Just listened to the full interview, looks like this is another of your comments to be filed under 'paraphrasing' or as most of us know it as...BS.

[europia]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t mean in the sense of Clowes has said ‘we must sign X, Y, Z.’

I mean it in the sense of the financial support Clowes has provided. I think he has wanted to back the manager and give him as reasonable a budget as possible.

Obviously the strategy is dependent on the business plan. Let’s see how things pan out in the summer where hopefully we’ll have more financial freedom.

To make any inroads towards 'financial freedom' someones going to need to come up with a strategy to move the club away from being a loss making business. Just my thoughts. 

[Rample]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t mean in the sense of Clowes has said ‘we must sign X, Y, Z.’

Too many initials in this thread who the hell is XYZ? 

[Ambitious]

The budget was set at the start of the season, we’ve manipulated it as best as possible to accommodate CBT on the basis we were getting another in. I don’t think there is any issue with Clowes’ financial commitment to the club at all. 

I don’t know his opinion on the recruitment, going by what Warne said the whole thing was planned out and everything documented but the dominos didn’t fall. Clowes will have an insight into the inner-workings of the strategy so perhaps won’t be as blunt as we are as supporters who can only really focus on the results of the recruitment. It’s not been good and we’ve brought in a lot of players who have struggled to string games together. I’d imagine the one thing the owner hates more than anything is signing players on wages that they’re picking up sat at home.

[SSD]

I think DC has given Warne a good enough budget to work with this season. No excuses in my view.

Warne chose to go for experienced freebies who would demand higher wages and signing on fees. He could have looked lower down the leagues for younger talent, pay a transfer fee but less on wages, bonuses etc. The manager might want to be daring and risky in his football tactics, so far his transfer policy is safe (putting it politely).

This short term transfer policy of buying older players has never worked in the 30 odd years I have watched Derby County. Every bleeding time we try and go for signing these "experienced, been there done it" players, we always end up increasing wage budget and struggle to ship them off because they're passed their best. And funnily enough never gain promotion, end up clearing a mess and starting again. Thankfully this time, most of them are not tied into silly contracts because we are lower down the football food chain.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 hours ago, Rample said:

Too many initials in this thread who the hell is XYZ? 

Our midfield for next season: Xavi, Yaya, and Zidane

[Returning ram]

You need to look at his signings by position and building a squad, not by numbers. Same at most clubs, look at Pep, he builds on top of what he has got for a squad. It's no longer about the first 11, but managing the game throughout the 90.

How many of his signings have contributed to the game when not injured, you don't bring in players to replace your better ones, no point.
 

Judge them at end of season, not half way through (yes stat man I know we are slightly more 😏) based on where we end up in the league, not on how many out of 12 start.

[davenportram]

The EFL business plan is complex

A loan pot of money, a permanent transfer pot of money. that cannot be cross subsidise each other

Maybe just maybe other clubs know this and the structuring of deals to make them work is too much for most, plus EFL approval makes the negotiations less straight forward.
 

I agree that buying for buying sake is stupid, we need better than we have on permanents as we are going to go up a division.

i reckon most of our loan pot when the Blackett -Taylor (loan to permanent) so the ability to loan players reduced.

Now we get into free agents and  loans - can be as good as we’ve got, no need to be better, as good as we’ve got will cover for injuries and still get us promoted without having players not good enough for the championship on long contracts.
 

anyway the EFL business plan ends this season so the next window is the real test of Warne and Clowrs in an unrestricted window

[davenportram]

8 hours ago, SSD said:

I think DC has given Warne a good enough budget to work with this season. No excuses in my view.

Warne chose to go for experienced freebies who would demand higher wages and signing on fees. He could have looked lower down the leagues for younger talent, pay a transfer fee but less on wages, bonuses etc. The manager might want to be daring and risky in his football tactics, so far his transfer policy is safe (putting it politely).

This short term transfer policy of buying older players has never worked in the 30 odd years I have watched Derby County. Every bleeding time we try and go for signing these "experienced, been there done it" players, we always end up increasing wage budget and struggle to ship them off because they're passed their best. And funnily enough never gain promotion, end up clearing a mess and starting again. Thankfully this time, most of them are not tied into silly contracts because we are lower down the football food chain.

But it’s not DC’s budget it’s the EFL’s with restrictive structuring of - have this for loans and this for permanents. 
 

not to mention every deal has to structured, agreed between clubs and then approved by the EFL. An extra level of complexity not faced by other clubs

[Rich3478]

20 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Not just forwards, but this is the full list of January loans in League 1 (bold = players I think would have improved us).

GK: Louie Moulden, Jamie Cumming, Craig MacGillivray
CB: Caleb Taylor, Elkan Baggott, Sean Grehan, Andy Smith, Jack Shepherd, Elijah Campbell, Rhys Williams, Kacper Lopata, Zane Monlouis, Charlie Goode, Nigel Lonwijk
LB: Hayden Coulson, Nathanael Ogbeta, Tolaji Bola, Harry Boyes, Imari Samuels, Nesta Guinness-Walker, Luke Chambers, Saxon Earley
RB: Calvin Ramsay, James Gibbons
DM/CM/AM: George Byers, Brandon Aguilera, Harry Vaughan, Tyreeq Bakinson, Lewis Fiorini, Luke Harris, Ryan Woods, Gavin Kilkenny, Conor McGrandles, Jay Matete, Myles Peart-Harris, Jensen Weir, Dan Gore, Jack Hinchy, Chem Campbell
RW: Jonathan Leko, Michael Olakigbe
LW: Jack Diamond, Tony Springett, Alex Mighten
CF: Freddie Ladapo, Joe Hugill, Ola-Adebomi, Kyle Hudlin, Antwoine Hackford, Macauley Bonne, Joe Nuttall, Mo Eisa, Daniel Adu-Adjei, Khayon Edwards, Joe Taylor, Tyler Burey, Vadine Oliver, Charlie Kelman, Gideon Kodua
 

Ladapo the glaring one on this list 

[Comrade 86]

Does anyone really know bar the man himself? I'd have thought that the £300-£400K we spent on a player 6 months from being available on a free would strongly suggests that he still retains faith, but it's all guesswork really, isn't it?

FWIW, I think giving up on a manager and team that sits right on the leaders heels would be a tad daft, especially when you've chunked in the sums DC has to buy the club and I don't think for one minute, that Clowes is any kind of fool. My guess would be that if anything gives him pause for thought, it'd be the £6.8 million trading loss more than Warne and the recruitment team's efforts. Also, has Warne not made it clear he was supported during the window in interviews since, so are we then assuming he is telling porkies? hard to see to what end, if so, so it's a probable 'no' from me, though I concede others will see things differently.

[richinspain]

35 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

You need to look at his signings by position and building a squad, not by numbers. Same at most clubs, look at Pep, he builds on top of what he has got for a squad. It's no longer about the first 11, but managing the game throughout the 90.

How many of his signings have contributed to the game when not injured, you don't bring in players to replace your better ones, no point.
 

Judge them at end of season, not half way through (yes stat man I know we are slightly more 😏) based on where we end up in the league, not on how many out of 12 start.

I agree with your first paragraph, but only when you're in the position Pep is in should your second paragraph apply. As I have quoted many times - King Arthur Cox, "I was looking for Ted McMinn's replacement 5 minutes after he signed for me"*
You should ALWAYS be looking to buy better than what you already have. What you have then becomes your reserve player (yes, I know, you also need to keep those now reserve players happy).

*contextual

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

I agree with your first paragraph, but only when you're in the position Pep is in should your second paragraph apply. As I have quoted many times - King Arthur Cox, "I was looking for Ted McMinn's replacement 5 minutes after he signed for me"*
You should ALWAYS be looking to buy better than what you already have. What you have then becomes your reserve player (yes, I know, you also need to keep those now reserve players happy).

*contextual

I did laugh at "don't bring in players to replace your better ones, no point" when we finished 7th last season and 3 of most used 11 moved on in the summer.

[Magicman]

This years signings are a mixed bunch.

Too many bought with  injuries and broken down again JJ  

The regulars - Nyambe, Nelson, and Wilson. 

Sub players - Bradley, Elder, Fornah, Ward , JJ , Waghorn, Washington. 

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, davenportram said:

But it’s not DC’s budget it’s the EFL’s with restrictive structuring of - have this for loans and this for permanents. 
 

not to mention every deal has to structured, agreed between clubs and then approved by the EFL. An extra level of complexity not faced by other clubs

I’ve seen no proof whatsoever that your claims are factual.  This is DCs budget and I don’t expect to see a radical change in it in the summer.  No transfer takes place for any club without EFL oversight.  Really happy to be proven wrong 

[BaianoPOTY98]

My thoughts are Warne spent most of his budget paying higher wages bringing in players on freebies to play his 3 at the back system with wingbacks! Sonny Bradley has failed miserably and our best centre backs Cashin and Nelson both seem a lot more comfortable playing in a back four. Ward, Elder and Wilson were brought in as his wingbacks. In my opinion Wilson has been a success although it won’t be at right back once Nyambe returns. Both Ward and Elder have been unfortunate with injuries and only time will tell if they will turn out decent signings although playing with a back four will make it difficult for Ward to fit in. Fornah was brought in as the energy in the centre of the park, but Warnes insistence on playing Bird and Hourihane together has limited his chances, so again I still don’t think we have seen his true worth. Now to the strikers, what a nightmare. He signed Wash who was injured at the time, along with Waggy who was prominently injured towards the end of his last time at the club. Then JJ who everyone knew was a big risk. So all in all he took a massive risk with all 3 of the new strikers! So why the frick didn’t he make a striker his No1 target in January!!!