Warne: what would it take?

[Chris_Martin]

17 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

We showed promise when Rosenior was here on his own, but Rooney's football was even worse than Warne's at times.

yes agree on rosenior,

rooney's football was bad the first few months, but he turned it around after that

[RoyMac5]

57 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes agree on rosenior,

rooney's football was bad the first few months, but he turned it around after that

And Warne has nearly everything going for him whilst Rooney had nearly everything against him.

[Ghost of Clough]

We rank 18th for league minutes given to players ages 21 or younger, at just 12.9%.
The top 6 are: Reading (47%), Wigan (40%), Bristol Rovers (32%), Charlton (32%), Peterborough (31%), Wycombe (29%)

We rank 5th for league minutes given to academy graduates of any age, at 15.4%.
The top 6 are: Wigan (42%), Reading (37%), Charlton (36%), Leyton Orient (16%), Derby (15%), Port Vale (14%)

The black dot is where we sit compared with the rest of the league

 

For comparison, this is where we were towards the end of the 20/21 season

 

Interesting to see if people have changed their view with regards to game time to youngsters...

 

[angieram]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We rank 18th for league minutes given to players ages 21 or younger, at just 12.9%.
The top 6 are: Reading (47%), Wigan (40%), Bristol Rovers (32%), Charlton (32%), Peterborough (31%), Wycombe (29%)

We rank 5th for league minutes given to academy graduates of any age, at 15.4%.
The top 6 are: Wigan (42%), Reading (37%), Charlton (36%), Leyton Orient (16%), Derby (15%), Port Vale (14%)

The black dot is where we sit compared with the rest of the league

 

For comparison, this is where we were towards the end of the 20/21 season

 

Interesting to see if people have changed their view with regards to game time to youngsters...

 

That's interesting stuff, a couple of observations from me.

A fair few of our academy graduates are no longer youngsters and have progressed to being just footballers, I like that. But the first graph demonstrates the "academy gap" that has been created by administration, with a lack of depth in the current "breaking through" age group.

Our second figure of 15% would undoubtedly be higher except for injury, with Bird, Thommo and Sibley particularly lower on match minutes than would have been expected otherwise. 

[vonwright]

Think people are really harsh on Rooney. He was managing when everything was falling apart, squad stripped and no budget. He threw together a bunch of academy kids and no-one-wants-them loanees and got really impressive results. We finished with a much better record than the previous season and would have comfortably survived but for the huge points deduction. There was even a time where we thought we might do the impossible, before the number of matches caught up with a small and very young squad. 

Oh, and somehow Rooney kept a sense of calm and purpose despite all the off-pitch drama. 

I'll always remember him well. 

[Foreveram]

10 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Think people are really harsh on Rooney. He was managing when everything was falling apart, squad stripped and no budget. He threw together a bunch of academy kids and no-one-wants-them loanees and got really impressive results. We finished with a much better record than the previous season and would have comfortably survived but for the huge points deduction. There was even a time where we thought we might do the impossible, before the number of matches caught up with a small and very young squad. 

Oh, and somehow Rooney kept a sense of calm and purpose despite all the off-pitch drama. 

I'll always remember him well. 

Exactly, this is where black and white statistics mask what was going on in the real world.

I’ll never forget that season and will always be grateful for the way he pulled everyone together.

[May Contain Nuts]

52 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Think people are really harsh on Rooney. He was managing when everything was falling apart, squad stripped and no budget. He threw together a bunch of academy kids and no-one-wants-them loanees and got really impressive results. We finished with a much better record than the previous season and would have comfortably survived but for the huge points deduction. There was even a time where we thought we might do the impossible, before the number of matches caught up with a small and very young squad. 

Oh, and somehow Rooney kept a sense of calm and purpose despite all the off-pitch drama. 

I'll always remember him well. 

 

The conditions were very difficult, of course they were, but sometimes that works for managers rather than against them, some thrive in that environment but can't manage a team with expectations. Hardship can have a galvanising effect, it creates situations that you simply cannot replicate during the course of a 'normal' season. We finished with a much better record than the previous season, but he'd presided over much of that himself.

It is massively to his credit that we was able to harness that to act as such a strong figurehead, but it doesn't necessarily follow that he was or will go on to be a good manager (at Championship level, anyway).

You can say that we'd have comfortable survived without the points deduction, but the sense of injustice (and unity) brought on by that very deduction may very well have helped us pick up a number of points we wouldn't have done under normal circumstances. There will have been teams we faced who underestimated us, played complacently, thought we'd give in. They were wrong.

See Paul Cook at Wigan when they knew a points deduction was coming for example - they'd been pretty poor all season under him, but rallied massively toward the end. Had that deduction not been on the cards they'd more than likely have carried on as they were and slipped quietly down. Cook got a lot of plaudits, there was plenty of hype around him, some suggested / hoped that we would employ him. He went onto Ipswich, but that didn't last long and he's now back in the National League doing a good job at Chesterfield. Naturally he's a lower league manager.

 

Commendable as Rooney's leadership and attitude was, he really did have nothing on the line.

Nobody would have blamed him if he'd quit out before we even moved him into the managerial position. What he had to gain was a bucket-load of good PR. For a player and a person who'd been in the headlines for the wrong reasons more often than right, sticking by Derby County during their struggle was a massive win for him. Whilst I don't doubt he was genuinely emotionally involved in our plight, using a bit of cognitive dissonance also tells me that there were a few 'calculated risks' along the way, not every single statement put out there was done so with the benefit of Derby and our players in mind.

The way he hitched himself to the Kirchner deal, for example, and exited sharply when that was off the cards (having previously intimated that his future at Derby wasn't dictated by who took over, and that he intended to stay on as manager until told otherwise) proved that IMO.

Most managers aren't former players who reached the very top of the game as a player, signing £100k+ a week contracts and who finished their playing days as multi-millionaires who could easily see out the rest of their lives living off their earnings, sponsorship deals and a bit of punditry work now and again.

That is to say, he wasn't in it for the money, he didn't need the job to keep his kids fed and watered, his wife in expensive clothes etc. Accepted the stresses of the job would have caused some pressure on his family life but I think that was also something he'd have chosen to deal with in exchange for the greater good of his managerial aspirations.

 I'll remember parts of his time here well but it'll always be a slightly clouded view, not helped by the latter days of his time as a player here and the stated reason for leaving us being what it was, before jetting off to DC for 2 years.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Interesting to see if people have changed their view with regards to game time to youngsters...

In what respect buddy? I'm definitely not as upbeat as I was back then, if that's what you mean, though my sense of things is that we are at least addressing things. For me, the singular most depressing element of the torrent of shiteness we've waded through in recent years, was watching the vultures descend on the academy, the best soon gone and the rest thrown into games in which they could no longer compete.

As for the current curve, well there's still plenty to fix, but there's some positive signs. The Bucko effect?

Sadly, not so much in terms in 1st team integration, which I find a little odd if I'm honest, especially in Pizza Cup games. If not then, then when?

[Archied]

18 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

In what respect buddy? I'm definitely not as upbeat as I was back then, if that's what you mean, though my sense of things is that we are at least addressing things. For me, the singular most depressing element of the torrent of shiteness we've waded through in recent years, was watching the vultures descend on the academy, the best soon gone and the rest thrown into games in which they could no longer compete.

As for the current curve, well there's still plenty to fix, but there's some positive signs. The Bucko effect?

Sadly, not so much in terms in 1st team integration, which I find a little odd if I'm honest, especially in Pizza Cup games. If not then, then when?

Agree to a degree but also my thinking is we would perhaps have seen more youngsters in pizza cup games has we not had such a mediocre start with us looking so out of sorts and disjointed 

[FlyBritishMidland]

8 minutes ago, Archied said:

Agree to a degree but also my thinking is we would perhaps have seen more youngsters in pizza cup games has we not had such a mediocre start with us looking so out of sorts and disjointed 

Add to that that there were players coming back from injury.  The likes of Sibley, Barkuizen, Wilson and even Bradley who’s had a dodgy start, all needed minutes.  Had some of those been available or involved more in the league, some of the youngsters on the bench may have played in that game.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Add to that that there were players coming back from injury.  The likes of Sibley, Barkuizen, Wilson and even Bradley who’s had a dodgy start, all needed minutes.  Had some of those been available or involved more in the league, some of the youngsters on the bench may have played in that game.

Truth is some have reasonable opinions on the pros and CONS of warne ( I believe comrade 86 falls in this category) and some are just off the scale illogical with everything up to and including the weather being the fault of warne 😂

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

Truth is some have reasonable opinions on the pros and CONS of warne ( I believe comrade 86 falls in this category) and some are just off the scale illogical with everything up to and including the weather being the fault of warne 😂

That is your opinion, and is evidence of over-exaggeration needed to make posters think Warne is being hard done to. 😄

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That is your opinion, and is evidence of over-exaggeration needed to make posters think Warne is being hard done to. 😄

Nope , just a pretty quick fire half funny response 😂

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Agree to a degree but also my thinking is we would perhaps have seen more youngsters in pizza cup games has we not had such a mediocre start with us looking so out of sorts and disjointed 

It's a fair question mate and the simple answer is, I don't know. My post was meant to be more observational, than critical really, as I think I'd adopt the same pragmatic approach myself right now, were I in Warne's shoes. 

You may be right though, as it's logical to assume that integrating young players would be easier within a side that's playing well and it's fair to say that we've yet to hit our straps. 

[TheRamOfSwad]

But we do have the oldest average team age in the football league so those statistics are going to be skewed surely not?

if there's something I learned from covid it's how you can interpret data and statistics to suit whatever claim you are trying to make 

[CBRammette]

In answer to original question - Today

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

In answer to original question - Today

What tipped you? I'm stunned by the set up approach playing a bottom of the league team. It's not funny. But even if he fudges promotion the signs are clear as to why he struggled to keep Rotherham up. I fear we'll lose all our 'footballers' before we lose Warne.

[IslandExile]

The question ought to be:

"Warne what would it take for you to honourably resign?"

[Millenniumram]

I think the key is, what would it take to change David Clowes mind?

Im still told he’s staunchly in support of Warne, despite growing voices from others involved at the club wanting him gone. If he’s really intent on leaving him in charge for the full 4 years (which is what I’m told is his intention, irrespective of what happens), then does he not fear about attendances dropping, and a toxic atmosphere developing. We’ve already seen that today, with the booing and abuse after the match.

 

[Mick Brolly]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

I think the key is, what would it take to change David Clowes mind?

Im still told he’s staunchly in support of Warne, despite growing voices from others involved at the club wanting him gone. If he’s really intent on leaving him in charge for the full 4 years (which is what I’m told is his intention, irrespective of what happens), then does he not fear about attendances dropping, and a toxic atmosphere developing. We’ve already seen that today, with the booing and abuse after the match.

 

Who told you this then?