Warne: what would it take?

[Curtains]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

So we have good players, why is the football so poor?

Injuries have hit us .

We can’t get a consistent starting 11 at the moment .

Roy I don’t what’s happened to your mindset but you were praising Warne when he came to Derby now you done a complete U Turn .

 

 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Injuries have hit us .

We can’t get a consistent starting 11 at the moment .

Roy I don’t what’s happened to your mindset but you were praising Warne when he came to Derby now you done a complete U Turn .

 

That's true. I believed what he said, but just like when Rowett came in, he talks the talk but... I've had a year of watching him do his best to bypass midfield, a midfield that had Knight and Bird and Hourihane. He's still doing it. The standard of passing is poor even for League 1. It's nothing to do with injuries that players can't pass to a team-mate is it?

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's true. I believed what he said, but just like when Rowett came in, he talks the talk but... I've had a year of watching him do his best to bypass midfield, a midfield that had Knight and Bird and Hourihane. He's still doing it. The standard of passing is poor even for League 1. It's nothing to do with injuries that players can't pass to a team-mate is it?

It’s to do with cohesion and consistency.

I am not going to get down after a 0-2 victory at a difficult place to go.

[Comrade 86]

It's not binary though, is it? The entire premise overlooks a bracket into which I'd wager the largest sector of fans fall. The pro and out camps on here just seem the most prevalent because they make the most noise.

My hunch is that a largest number of fans are simply undecided and want to see how Warne progresses with this set of players; others may be concerned that if we are not successful this season, compensation for the remainder of Warne's 4 year contract may not even be viable; doubtless others just think that sacking managers without affording them the chance to build their own team is braindead and what got us here in this mess in the first place; there's probably even some who wonder how we'd look with a squad less injury stricken. Let's be clear about this; none of those views necessarily constitute them being pro-Warne, nor do any render them happy clappers.

Bit of a tangent maybe, but let's be honest here; it's dead easy to say drop the gaffer, pay the compo and find us someone better when it's not you that's footing the bill. It's not nearly so easy when you've already spaffed £52 million saving the club in the first place. 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Comrade 86

[IlsonDerby]

2 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

It's not binary though, is it? The entire premise overlooks a bracket into which I'd wager the largest sector of fans fall. The pro and out camps on here just seem the most prevalent because they make the most noise.

My hunch is that a largest number of fans are simply undecided and want to see how Warne progresses with this set of players; others may be concerned that if we are not successful this season, compensation for the remainder of Warne's 4 year contract may not even be viable; doubtless others just think that sacking managers without affording them the chance to build their own team is braindead and what got us here in this mess in the first place; there's probably even some who wonder how we'd look with a squad less injury stricken. Let's be clear about this; none of those views necessarily constitute them being pro-Warne, nor do any render them happy clappers.

Bit of a tangent maybe, but let's be honest here; it's dead easy to say drop the gaffer, pay the compo and find us someone better when it's not you that's footing the bill. It's not nearly so easy when you've already spaffed £52 million saving the club in the first place. 

 

You’re missing the point. It isn’t about championing him or slating him it is literally about those people on either end of the spectrum talking about what could happen that would change their opinion. 
 

If you’re in the middle with no strong feeling either way then respectfully you don’t really have much to contribute to that discussion. If you find yourself leaning towards one side or the other then come back and tell us what would swing it the other way for you… 

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, IlsonDerby said:

If you’re in the middle with no strong feeling either way then respectfully you don’t really have much to contribute to that discussion. If you find yourself leaning towards one side or the other then come back and tell us what would swing it the other way for you… 

Any suggestions for other threads 🤣

[IlsonDerby]

1 minute ago, Comrade 86 said:

Any suggestions for other threads 🤣

Well I’m sure you won’t struggle to find any one of the 10 threads to discuss general feelings towards Warne and his tenure here so far 👀 

[Comrade 86]

Just now, IlsonDerby said:

Well I’m sure you won’t struggle to find any one of the 10 threads to discuss general feelings towards Warne and his tenure here so far 👀 

Agreed. You certainly didn't 👀

[IlsonDerby]

3 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Agreed. You certainly didn't 👀

Correct - because that was the purpose of those threads. They wouldn’t be called ‘threads’ if no one added to the original post.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

It isn’t about championing him or slating him it is literally about those people on either end of the spectrum talking about what could happen that would change their opinion. 
 

If you’re in the middle with no strong feeling either way then respectfully you don’t really have much to contribute to that discussion. If you find yourself leaning towards one side or the other then come back and tell us what would swing it the other way for you… 

I think folks more towards the middle can still (and do) have a view. The nearest options for me in the original poll were "judge by Christmas" or "judge by end of season", the stark reality being that in any event PW would probably have to walk for it not to be prohibitively expensive to part company with him. Therefore I'm definitely not in the positive "still wants him here" camp but nor do I "want him gone" as such... although I would certainly like his team's predominant "style" of football gone, especially since we have had glimpses of better during his tenure and even as recently as Tuesday night. So for me the main thing is a better deal on the trade-off between style and results. I can't promise I would accept watching terrible football in which we win every week, but I might. But if we're not going to win even most weeks, at least serve us up something we can get behind (like in the recent relegation season, albeit we had more to get behind than just the on-field style).

Also, credit where it's due because PW's recruitment so far has seemed a bit iffy so this is worth a mention: despite the jury being out on his supposed major signing (Bradley), I think his current centre-back pairing of Nelson and Cashin looks very good, and on a related note, to my surprise he has been willing to move to a back 4 (for now at least) and has improved that department personnel-wise (i.e. Nelson). (I mention the back 4/5 because it was something you referred to in your post, admittedly pre-match yesterday). Early days but Nyambe also looks a good addition there - almost certainly better than what we had, defensively speaking.

I agree with one of the earlier comments that PP should be something of a fortress, but it's more to do with the approach at home than necessarily the results. We should win most of our home games with a swagger, and lose very rarely there. To be fair, our home record last year was pretty good. Hopefully the point about improving our defence is relevant here, because we should have become even harder to beat on our own patch.

But that doesn't mean we're excused being disjointed and under the cosh when playing away either. Mid-match yesterday I queried how Carlisle could dominate us the way they were doing in the first-half... surely they wouldn't do that at PP? Yes you'd expect them to have a go and play us like it's their cup final. But they are clearly a poor side and we should be holding them off the way an older brother subdues his angry younger brother with hand on head at the end of  a long arm! Even without some of our more experienced (not necessarily better) players we had the knowhow to control that game but looked like we wanted to make it into a lottery (or end-to-end ping-pong as you put it appropriately in your original post). And as @RoyMac5 said, what injury excuses are acceptable for the players on the pitch not being able to string just a few passes together? So this leads into my final criterion: the sense that the players on the pitch know what they're doing. That many don't appear to know at the moment is my best hypothesis for why we're looking disjointed, unattractive (style-wise) and largely ineffective to boot. Whether you like PW's style or you don't, the plan is unlikely to succeed if the players don't even really understand it and as a result make bad decisions (which they quite frequently do, and I'm not just talking about Bradley miskicks).

Oh, and ideally less irritating interviews, although much of that stems from what he gets asked. But that's not a clincher.

[Oldben]

23 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

It's not binary though, is it? The entire premise overlooks a bracket into which I'd wager the largest sector of fans fall. The pro and out camps on here just seem the most prevalent because they make the most noise.

My hunch is that a largest number of fans are simply undecided and want to see how Warne progresses with this set of players; others may be concerned that if we are not successful this season, compensation for the remainder of Warne's 4 year contract may not even be viable; doubtless others just think that sacking managers without affording them the chance to build their own team is braindead and what got us here in this mess in the first place; there's probably even some who wonder how we'd look with a squad less injury stricken. Let's be clear about this; none of those views necessarily constitute them being pro-Warne, nor do any render them happy clappers.

Bit of a tangent maybe, but let's be honest here; it's dead easy to say drop the gaffer, pay the compo and find us someone better when it's not you that's footing the bill. It's not nearly so easy when you've already spaffed £52 million saving the club in the first place. 

 

The only way to see a return on the large sum of money that was splashed out on saving the club is to spend money and promote the club not just from league one but also from the championship.

If derby are in the Premier league our owner could find a buyer to get back some of the funds he invested in the club.

A team thats weak, needs to strengthen. We are losing against teams i think we should have beaten, but our teams to weak. Its not just tactics, the same tactics promoted rotherham 3 times.

For that you need a transfer budget.

On current form I wouldn't want the team promoted. If league one teams can defeat them, what would championship teams do.

Spending money on salaries to bring in loan players who just want to get back to their respective clubs or older players who almost zero resale value isn't going to do it.

I'm not entirely against pw as he promoted Rotherham on 3 occasions. Yet he also failed to keep them up twice. 

[Ghost of Clough]

On 24/09/2023 at 08:50, EssendonRam said:

Fair question. It would depend on the reason tbh. But I wouldn’t have called that run falling off a cliff either.

Following our 5-0 over Morecambe on 4th Feb, we were the 14th best side in the league with just 23 points from our final 18 games.

[TheHomunculusLives]

League One is a poor division this season, and even with all our challenges over recent years, we are still well funded and resourced compared to most or all of our rivals, and with the possible exception of Bolton we are the only club in this league with Premier League potential in terms of size, fanbase etc. 

After an understandable season of transition in 22/23, anything other than top 2 has to be seen as failure this campaign. If Warne doesn't have us in a strong position to achieve that by January, I'd look elsewhere.

[Ghost of Clough]

On 24/09/2023 at 09:00, Curtains said:

Sensible post but you need to remember we haven’t paid money for any players 

Nothing upfront. Fees will be paid for Washington, Fornah and Wilson dependant on promotion and sell-ons.

[Curtains]

32 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Nothing upfront. Fees will be paid for Washington, Fornah and Wilson dependant on promotion and sell-ons.

Fair enough but when you are trying to attract top class players transfer fees are important.

Hence why for instance Top players go to top clubs who bid the most in most cases .

Derby don’t have that option at the moment 

[Curtains]

44 minutes ago, TheHomunculusLives said:

League One is a poor division this season, and even with all our challenges over recent years, we are still well funded and resourced compared to most or all of our rivals, and with the possible exception of Bolton we are the only club in this league with Premier League potential in terms of size, fanbase etc. 

After an understandable season of transition in 22/23, anything other than top 2 has to be seen as failure this campaign. If Warne doesn't have us in a strong position to achieve that by January, I'd look elsewhere.

I’d say Warne has signed good players wouldn’t you .

We haven’t signed anyone for money on transfer fees 

[admira]

On 23/09/2023 at 09:37, IlsonDerby said:

We’ve recently had the latest poll about whether people want Warne to stay or leave. I don’t want to get into the nitty gritty of why you voted the way you did as that’s been done to death on those other threads. 
 

What I am interested in is what would it take for you to change your mind? Be it someone who still wants him here or someone who wants him gone. 
 

For me (I think it’s fairly obvious I’ve been really unimpressed so far) I like Warne. I want him to do well. I don’t like the personal jibes at him. For me to warm to him and want him to stay the course it’d take: 

More play going through our good midfield players. 

A flexibility to move away from 5 at the back until he’s sure he has the players with attributes needed to play it well. 

Looking to control the game in key parts of the match rather than the hectic ‘you attack we attack’ ping pong it sometimes feels like. 
 

And this is the big big one for me, because we will end up in the play offs in my opinion with or without him as it’s a weaker division than last season. The one for me is that I want to see us really take it to and compete with the so called strong teams in the division. 

I know it doesn’t seem like it but I go into every single match with optimism that this is the match that’s going to get us going and going to kick start our season. 

Anyway keep the criticisms to a 0 please and focus on the Q. What would it take for you to change your mind from the answer you gave on the poll? 

Winning consecutive games without letting a goal in. Oh hang on ...

[Curtains]

21 hours ago, jameso said:

I think folks more towards the middle can still (and do) have a view. The nearest options for me in the original poll were "judge by Christmas" or "judge by end of season", the stark reality being that in any event PW would probably have to walk for it not to be prohibitively expensive to part company with him. Therefore I'm definitely not in the positive "still wants him here" camp but nor do I "want him gone" as such... although I would certainly like his team's predominant "style" of football gone, especially since we have had glimpses of better during his tenure and even as recently as Tuesday night. So for me the main thing is a better deal on the trade-off between style and results. I can't promise I would accept watching terrible football in which we win every week, but I might. But if we're not going to win even most weeks, at least serve us up something we can get behind (like in the recent relegation season, albeit we had more to get behind than just the on-field style).

Also, credit where it's due because PW's recruitment so far has seemed a bit iffy so this is worth a mention: despite the jury being out on his supposed major signing (Bradley), I think his current centre-back pairing of Nelson and Cashin looks very good, and on a related note, to my surprise he has been willing to move to a back 4 (for now at least) and has improved that department personnel-wise (i.e. Nelson). (I mention the back 4/5 because it was something you referred to in your post, admittedly pre-match yesterday). Early days but Nyambe also looks a good addition there - almost certainly better than what we had, defensively speaking.

I agree with one of the earlier comments that PP should be something of a fortress, but it's more to do with the approach at home than necessarily the results. We should win most of our home games with a swagger, and lose very rarely there. To be fair, our home record last year was pretty good. Hopefully the point about improving our defence is relevant here, because we should have become even harder to beat on our own patch.

But that doesn't mean we're excused being disjointed and under the cosh when playing away either. Mid-match yesterday I queried how Carlisle could dominate us the way they were doing in the first-half... surely they wouldn't do that at PP? Yes you'd expect them to have a go and play us like it's their cup final. But they are clearly a poor side and we should be holding them off the way an older brother subdues his angry younger brother with hand on head at the end of  a long arm! Even without some of our more experienced (not necessarily better) players we had the knowhow to control that game but looked like we wanted to make it into a lottery (or end-to-end ping-pong as you put it appropriately in your original post). And as @RoyMac5 said, what injury excuses are acceptable for the players on the pitch not being able to string just a few passes together? So this leads into my final criterion: the sense that the players on the pitch know what they're doing. That many don't appear to know at the moment is my best hypothesis for why we're looking disjointed, unattractive (style-wise) and largely ineffective to boot. Whether you like PW's style or you don't, the plan is unlikely to succeed if the players don't even really understand it and as a result make bad decisions (which they quite frequently do, and I'm not just talking about Bradley miskicks).

Oh, and ideally less irritating interviews, although much of that stems from what he gets asked. But that's not a clincher.

Less irritating interviews !

Whats wrong with them !

Edited September 25, 2023 by Curtains

[Curtains]

21 hours ago, jameso said:

I think folks more towards the middle can still (and do) have a view. The nearest options for me in the original poll were "judge by Christmas" or "judge by end of season", the stark reality being that in any event PW would probably have to walk for it not to be prohibitively expensive to part company with him. Therefore I'm definitely not in the positive "still wants him here" camp but nor do I "want him gone" as such... although I would certainly like his team's predominant "style" of football gone, especially since we have had glimpses of better during his tenure and even as recently as Tuesday night. So for me the main thing is a better deal on the trade-off between style and results. I can't promise I would accept watching terrible football in which we win every week, but I might. But if we're not going to win even most weeks, at least serve us up something we can get behind (like in the recent relegation season, albeit we had more to get behind than just the on-field style).

Also, credit where it's due because PW's recruitment so far has seemed a bit iffy so this is worth a mention: despite the jury being out on his supposed major signing (Bradley), I think his current centre-back pairing of Nelson and Cashin looks very good, and on a related note, to my surprise he has been willing to move to a back 4 (for now at least) and has improved that department personnel-wise (i.e. Nelson). (I mention the back 4/5 because it was something you referred to in your post, admittedly pre-match yesterday). Early days but Nyambe also looks a good addition there - almost certainly better than what we had, defensively speaking.

I agree with one of the earlier comments that PP should be something of a fortress, but it's more to do with the approach at home than necessarily the results. We should win most of our home games with a swagger, and lose very rarely there. To be fair, our home record last year was pretty good. Hopefully the point about improving our defence is relevant here, because we should have become even harder to beat on our own patch.

But that doesn't mean we're excused being disjointed and under the cosh when playing away either. Mid-match yesterday I queried how Carlisle could dominate us the way they were doing in the first-half... surely they wouldn't do that at PP? Yes you'd expect them to have a go and play us like it's their cup final. But they are clearly a poor side and we should be holding them off the way an older brother subdues his angry younger brother with hand on head at the end of  a long arm! Even without some of our more experienced (not necessarily better) players we had the knowhow to control that game but looked like we wanted to make it into a lottery (or end-to-end ping-pong as you put it appropriately in your original post). And as @RoyMac5 said, what injury excuses are acceptable for the players on the pitch not being able to string just a few passes together? So this leads into my final criterion: the sense that the players on the pitch know what they're doing. That many don't appear to know at the moment is my best hypothesis for why we're looking disjointed, unattractive (style-wise) and largely ineffective to boot. Whether you like PW's style or you don't, the plan is unlikely to succeed if the players don't even really understand it and as a result make bad decisions (which they quite frequently do, and I'm not just talking about Bradley miskicks).

Oh, and ideally less irritating interviews, although much of that stems from what he gets asked. But that's not a clincher.

Load of rubbish 

[TheHomunculusLives]

4 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I’d say Warne has signed good players wouldn’t you .

We haven’t signed anyone for money on transfer fees 

At this stage, I'm not convinced we're any better this season than we were last. I think Warne has been quite conservative in his signings, we still lack pace in the team and with the exception of Fornah, not sure many of the new players have much potential to improve further.