Don’t be too dismayed Rosenier ball is still painful

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

15 minutes ago, Jayram said:

We’d probably be in the Championship watching it though as opposed to enduring the clueless s**** the PE teacher keeps churning out in this crap division. 

I'm no fan of pw football either but roseniors was equally as tedious,perhaps even more,but in a different way.

Edited September 17, 2023 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I know many people aren't enjoying Warne-ball (and I agree)

Yet a few months back you were shouting down anyone who didn't fancy him as manager. Yet another great call from you.

Why would anyone listen to you now, would be my question?

[RadioactiveWaste]

Death by passing to our own guys beats death by passing to their guys.

LR wasn't amazing but you could see what they were trying to be and they weren't that bad at being it, and LR gets credit for putting the squad together after the admin as well as sticking with the club through the admin and it was his first gig as the head coach (OK interim audition period, but he was doing the job until he wasn't).

 

[MickD]

2 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I'd of imagined that clowes would have done if he hadnt just been appointed at man u....

Clowes had watched the same football as us from the stands for the past 10 years...

of?

[Bris Vegas]

Rosenior’s last game in charge:

Yes, it was excruciating watching Derby dominate the ball and pepper the opposition goal with shots.

Give me long, rushed chaotic forward passes, 40% possession and one shot on target over that rubbish.

[May Contain Nuts]

Rosenior's football is what you use as a building block toward McClaren's football. In a similar way (but not the same) as Nigel Clough's football was.

All it really lacks is a bit of urgency so the opposition can't just sit-in whilst the ball's played Infront of them, more of a reason to draw them out of position so you can exploit the gaps, with the players letting off the leash a little.

Then again I remember the Lincoln manager saying they really upped their energy levels in the away game that seems to have sealed Rosenior's fate, because they needed to cover so much ground to stop us.

It's always a bit 'nearly there' and tends to stay that way for a bit too long for impatient people to stomach, but the intention is always to at least try to build an attractive team, one which can naturally evolve / improve as you slowly bring in a better quality of player.

It has a far higher ceiling than Warne's football, and may eventually justify the wait if you are willing to sit through it.

Nothing about Warne's football justifies such a wait. It's a building block toward being the best  s******** in town, but instead of  having solid enough foundations in place to advance beyond that it's a s******** built on sand.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[sage]

5 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I know many people aren't enjoying Warne-ball (and I agree), but Rosenior-ball was excruciating in different ways. Where Warne has improved us is getting the ball forward more quickly. Obviously we've also gone backwards in many ways. A lot of people are starting to say Warne's fate will be decided by the end of October, and that feels right. I agreed with Clowes that Rosenior's approach wasn't the answer. I suspect Warne's isn't either, but at this point we might as well wait another six weeks to see if it comes together.

And now I fancy a fish cake...

Rosenoir was complaining that the team weren't passing quickly enough, that's the direction he wanted.

He also barely had McGoldrick available who was crucial to that style.

 

[Ambitious]

Rosenior was in his first managerial job, whereby you could see a plan formulating albeit often slowly. He liked a structured team, passing into feet, testing the opposition defence’s concentration. We lacked a cutting edge but we used to suffocate teams and play with the ball. Warne came in with a different plan, whilst I could see the logic and him being successful at this level, we’ve surrendered so much to the point where we’ve lost so much of what made us good and not really gained too much on the other side. 

If you ask me in hindsight, it’s an absolute landslide who I would prefer between Warne and Rosenior - I want to see Derby play football, ultimately. I also find Warne infuriatingly naive. Game management is terrible - but it’s engrained in his philosophy of moving the ball quickly and not allowing the other team to settle. We just aren’t able to slow down the tempo and move it back and sideways when we need to, so everything is just erratic. I’m not a fan. I get the theory behind it, but there’s too many variables we can’t control. My biggest irritation from it all is that there isn’t an emphasis on player development and that’s why I would be willing to call an end to his management of this club if I was Clowes. It’s obviously his call, but if that’s my money on the table then I would want a better process in place for the first team squad.

[Archied]

Rosenior , warne or whoever is derby manager in our current circumstances has to hit the ground running and keep it running no matter how they play or else they are very quickly under pressure from one section of fans or the other , it really is that simple , the club and the fans do not want to be at this level , it’s a tough gig and there’s very little patience unless your getting results and right at the sharp end competing for promotion every week of the season , it helped do for rosenior ( other reasons me be a factor too) and it could well do for warne within 4 or 5 games , we can bang on all we want about this ethos or that ethos on here but the truth is it’s all about results ,especially at a club like derby in this division 🤷🏻‍♂️

[InstaRam]

Roseniors last game in the Championship:

58 % possession

1,52 XG against 0,63

18 shots

478 passes 86 % successful

Warnes last game in L1

44 % possession

1,78 XG against 1,65

8 shots

205 passes 64 % successful

I know which style I would prefer.

[Mihangel]

23 minutes ago, InstaRam said:

Roseniors last game in the Championship:

58 % possession

1,52 XG against 0,63

18 shots

478 passes 86 % successful

Warnes last game in L1

44 % possession

1,78 XG against 1,65

8 shots

205 passes 64 % successful

I know which style I would prefer.

I'm no particular fan of stats and I'm certainly not wetting the bed about Warne BUT that is dreadful, horrific.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

I'm sure being it the top six of the Champo is really painful. We can't even breach the top six in League One.

[InstaRam]

38 minutes ago, Mihangel said:

I'm no particular fan of stats and I'm certainly not wetting the bed about Warne BUT that is dreadful, horrific.

I agree to some extent that stats can be misleading but this particular stats showing so few passes overall and so few successful ones is our biggest problem atm. I would say that it is almost impossible to be successful over time with stats like this. You can't just give the ball to the opposition all the time. It's a very childish way to play football. 

[RoyMac5]

9 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Rosenior was in his first managerial job, whereby you could see a plan formulating albeit often slowly. He liked a structured team, passing into feet, testing the opposition defence’s concentration. We lacked a cutting edge but we used to suffocate teams and play with the ball. Warne came in with a different plan, whilst I could see the logic and him being successful at this level, we’ve surrendered so much to the point where we’ve lost so much of what made us good and not really gained too much on the other side. 

If you ask me in hindsight, it’s an absolute landslide who I would prefer between Warne and Rosenior - I want to see Derby play football, ultimately. I also find Warne infuriatingly naive. Game management is terrible - but it’s engrained in his philosophy of moving the ball quickly and not allowing the other team to settle. We just aren’t able to slow down the tempo and move it back and sideways when we need to, so everything is just erratic. I’m not a fan. I get the theory behind it, but there’s too many variables we can’t control. My biggest irritation from it all is that there isn’t an emphasis on player development and that’s why I would be willing to call an end to his management of this club if I was Clowes. It’s obviously his call, but if that’s my money on the table then I would want a better process in place for the first team squad.

Yes. Please email this to Mr Clowes at Clowes developments. I've found the old cliche Sturridge used to use every week back when..."I fear for us" as a footballing side. #COYR!

[Jubbs]

1 hour ago, InstaRam said:

Roseniors last game in the Championship:

58 % possession

1,52 XG against 0,63

18 shots

478 passes 86 % successful

Warnes last game in L1

44 % possession

1,78 XG against 1,65

8 shots

205 passes 64 % successful

I know which style I would prefer.

-0.79xG for the penalty too. 

[alram]

12 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Rosenior’s last game in charge:

Yes, it was excruciating watching Derby dominate the ball and pepper the opposition goal with shots.

Give me long, rushed chaotic forward passes, 40% possession and one shot on target over that rubbish.

just so people know we have to go back 6 games to get as many shots on target as that

[Addingham Ram]

18 hours ago, alram said:

justifying warne's mediocrity by saying LR was also mediocre is nonsense in my opinion

 

at least LR gave us a vision and something that resembled a plan of action. he may have failed too but we are going nowhere under warne and will need a few transfer windows to clean up his mess.

I admit that I was fully behind PW's appointment, especially on the back of 3 promotions from League One with that small club from South Yorkshire, but I'm now firmly in the 'we need to see something soon or things have to change' camp.

I realise we are still under some transfer restrictions, being those of the EFL, or those applied by David Clowes in trying to run the club sustainably, but as has been said many times by others, PW has been in charge for 50 odd games now, he has assessed our squad, brought in a lot of his own players, and still there appear little signs of improvement. It can certainly be argued we've gone backwards.

My biggest worry now is if we keep PW for another couple of transfer windows - potentially with less restrictions, might we have an even bigger rebuild if the axe were to fall on his reign?

Or do we get somebody else in before the next transfer window, somebody who is more adept at working with the players available and willing to play to the players' strengths, rather than trying to shoehorn players into unfamiliar roles in an unfamiliar playing system. I honestly think there is a decent amount of talent at the club, certainly enough, with the right manager, to be challenging for the top 6.

I'm happy to give PW until the end of October, but I'm hoping that unless there is a significant improvement, DC is putting together a plan B.

[LN747]

13 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I'm sure being it the top six of the Champo is really painful. We can't even breach the top six in League One.

At last someone spotted my sarcasm ! Correct , as dull as the football is Hull could well go up this season . I doubt it but they could , so actually I’m really dismayed 😩 

 

[vonwright]

Rosenior had to build a squad almost literally from nothing, working under as many (and probably many more) restrictions than Warne.

He was then given fewer than 10 league games to get these players working as a cohesive squad, playing a fairly technical brand of football. 

It wasn't like we lost every game. It wasn't like there weren't some very positive signs. 

I think it was way too soon to say his brand of football would have proven ineffective for us, given more time and probably more resource. 

[RoyMac5]

9 hours ago, vonwright said:

Rosenior had to build a squad almost literally from nothing, working under as many (and probably many more) restrictions than Warne.

He was then given fewer than 10 league games to get these players working as a cohesive squad, playing a fairly technical brand of football. 

It wasn't like we lost every game. It wasn't like there weren't some very positive signs. 

I think it was way too soon to say his brand of football would have proven ineffective for us, given more time and probably more resource. 

I wonder when we first made approaches for Warne? It's like Rosenior even given an interview never stood a chance (I wasn't a fan of the sideways stuff btw but understand more now about the theory behind where it was meant to progress to).