Don’t be too dismayed Rosenier ball is still painful

[DazzaRam]

We virtually dominated every game under Rosenoir. And thats with a squad assembled in 6 weeks!! At the minute we are being bossed in games and look rudderless. If we are being dominated by League 1 sides then that doesnt bode well if we make the Championship with Warne. He has been relegated 3 times already in the Championship. Was it a coincidence that Rotherham stayed up last season after Warne had left?? Id have Rosenoir back in a heart beat. 

[Rambam]

One problem is Warne doesn’t attract good players. He hasn’t got the personality/charisma. 
We’ve gone from the likes of McClaren, Cocu, Lampard and Rooney, to a jokey PE teacher. 

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Rambam said:

One problem is Warne doesn’t attract good players. He hasn’t got the personality/charisma. 
We’ve gone from the likes of McClaren, Cocu, Lampard and Rooney, to a jokey PE teacher. 

So, we've gone from attracting over-priced, under-performing players which ultimately ended up with us in administration and relegation... to not having that. 

I get you want to bash Warne and the players he signed (now we are League 1 club), but being starry eyed and wistful over one of the worst periods in the club's history is ridiculous.

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, Srg said:

So, we've gone from attracting over-priced, under-performing players which ultimately ended up with us in administration and relegation... to not having that. 

I get you want to bash Warne and the players he signed (now we are League 1 club), but being starry eyed and wistful over one of the worst periods in the club's history is ridiculous.

Do you think Warne could have attracted some of the players even Rosenior did? No, because we know he tried to sign some of them!

[Srg]

25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you think Warne could have attracted some of the players even Rosenior did? No, because we know he tried to sign some of them!

With all due respect, at Rotherham and all that comes with being at Rotherham.

And yes, we may have been short on time, but I wish we hadn't signed the likes of Hourihane. Just because we've heard of someone, or they've done something 5 years ago, doesn't mean they're any good now.

[Jayram]

40 minutes ago, Srg said:

With all due respect, at Rotherham and all that comes with being at Rotherham.

And yes, we may have been short on time, but I wish we hadn't signed the likes of Hourihane. Just because we've heard of someone, or they've done something 5 years ago, doesn't mean they're any good now.

Hourihane would be amazing in a team that played actual football but when you’re playing pub team football it’s hard to shine. Even so his stats are still pretty decent. 

[Srg]

12 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Hourihane would be amazing in a team that played actual football but when you’re playing pub team football it’s hard to shine. Even so his stats are still pretty decent. 

His stats are decent because he takes every set piece. His open play stats are average at best. Before he went off injured on Saturday, he must have aimlessly hooked balls over his head on the stretch 4 or 5 times and also put one of the lamest tackles in in the middle of the pitch - and no, this wasn't Warne's fault, it's because his legs have gone and he can't move well enough.

He's just an example though.

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

His stats are decent because he takes every set piece. His open play stats are average at best. Before he went off injured on Saturday, he must have aimlessly hooked balls over his head on the stretch 4 or 5 times and also put one of the lamest tackles in in the middle of the pitch - and no, this wasn't Warne's fault, it's because his legs have gone and he can't move well enough.

He's just an example though.

He's clearly being told to play those kind of balls though, the same with Cashin and the big diagonals.  They weren't really playing them at all when Rosenior was in charge, and they started almost as soon as Warne got here.  Whether it's exactly what Warne wants or not is open to debate, but it's pretty clear (to me anyway) that this is how the players are interpreting what they are being told.

He was obviously signed to sit in the base of a 4231 alongside Bird, where his lack of mobility wasn't as much of an issue.  It's only because Warne wants the entire team doing death-sprints between both boxes, that his lack of mobility gets exposed.  For what it's worth, I think with him and Bird in there under Rosenior, we had the same set of issues as when we played Rooney and Bird there - in games where we had lots of the ball and they could just stroll around and play passes it worked well, but in the more frantic games, they weren't mobile enough (as a pair) to deal with it.  But we never really got to see how Rosenior would have adjusted to deal with that because he was moved on so quickly.

[Foreveram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you think Warne could have attracted some of the players even Rosenior did? No, because we know he tried to sign some of them!

For Rotherham.

[vonwright]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

So, we've gone from attracting over-priced, under-performing players which ultimately ended up with us in administration and relegation... to not having that. 

I get you want to bash Warne and the players he signed (now we are League 1 club), but being starry eyed and wistful over one of the worst periods in the club's history is ridiculous.

Do you think the players Rosenior signed are on much higher wages than the ones Warne has signed? Are Bradley, Ward, Elder and Washington much cheaper than, say, Hourihane, NML or McGoldrick?

Yes, some of our managers (with the encouragement of the former owner) has spent money on overpriced, underperforming players. But that's not the whole story of our recruitment, and arguably has nothing at all to do with Rosenior. I'd say he worked minor miracles with very little room for manoeuvre. 

[trappatoni]

I enjoyed Rosenior's football - much better to watch than the clueless crap being served up now.   

[trappatoni]

3 hours ago, DazzaRam said:

We virtually dominated every game under Rosenoir. And thats with a squad assembled in 6 weeks!! At the minute we are being bossed in games and look rudderless. If we are being dominated by League 1 sides then that doesnt bode well if we make the Championship with Warne. He has been relegated 3 times already in the Championship. Was it a coincidence that Rotherham stayed up last season after Warne had left?? Id have Rosenoir back in a heart beat. 

I can offer some reassurance that wont be an issue. 

[alram]

On 18/09/2023 at 13:20, Addingham Ram said:

I admit that I was fully behind PW's appointment, especially on the back of 3 promotions from League One with that small club from South Yorkshire, but I'm now firmly in the 'we need to see something soon or things have to change' camp.

I realise we are still under some transfer restrictions, being those of the EFL, or those applied by David Clowes in trying to run the club sustainably, but as has been said many times by others, PW has been in charge for 50 odd games now, he has assessed our squad, brought in a lot of his own players, and still there appear little signs of improvement. It can certainly be argued we've gone backwards.

My biggest worry now is if we keep PW for another couple of transfer windows - potentially with less restrictions, might we have an even bigger rebuild if the axe were to fall on his reign?

Or do we get somebody else in before the next transfer window, somebody who is more adept at working with the players available and willing to play to the players' strengths, rather than trying to shoehorn players into unfamiliar roles in an unfamiliar playing system. I honestly think there is a decent amount of talent at the club, certainly enough, with the right manager, to be challenging for the top 6.

I'm happy to give PW until the end of October, but I'm hoping that unless there is a significant improvement, DC is putting together a plan B.

I think the basic things you want to see from a manager is an improvement in players.

 

I think you can take bad results, even bad football if they look like growing pains & you are seeing players grow into a system or just a level of football.

 

we see none of that under warne, how many players have realistically improved under warne, not many. And some of that is down to the recruitment and the obsession of players on the decline but again that’s fine to follow that model but you need instant results if you do otherwise what are we building towards

[BramcoteRam84]

Rosenior has been very heavily backed has signed a lot of top players for that league. He should be putting them in the promotion mix. If he doesn’t get them in the playoffs he’ll be under pressure.

He may well succeed at Hull and he may have succeeded at Derby, doesn’t mean Warne won’t succeed here. I didn’t want Liam gone but his football also had its flaws and a lot of people critical on here. Was it Shrewsbury where we had 80% possession and no shots on target, drawing 0-0. The Lincoln 2-0 another debacle. 

[BramcoteRam84]

On 19/09/2023 at 09:16, Rambam said:

One problem is Warne doesn’t attract good players. He hasn’t got the personality/charisma. 
We’ve gone from the likes of McClaren, Cocu, Lampard and Rooney, to a jokey PE teacher. 

Nyambe not a good player? Fornah not a good player? Elder? All played at a higher level or been top players at this level. 

 

[Yoxoram]

On 18/09/2023 at 07:58, InstaRam said:

Roseniors last game in the Championship:

58 % possession

1,52 XG against 0,63

18 shots

478 passes 86 % successful

Warnes last game in L1

44 % possession

1,78 XG against 1,65

8 shots

205 passes 64 % successful

I know which style I would prefer.

It's funny really. When I play sidewards a few yards, I have a nearly 100% successful pass rate, but when I move the ball forward quickly into the attacking half (sometimes creating chances and occasionally getting an assist and certainly creating some excitement) my percentage pass success rate drops. I do know what type of pass I prefer to make and watch when I'm at a game, and surprisingly it's not the sleep inducing side to side passing and back again.

It's fairly easy to get decent possession stats if you pass side to side etc but they will drop if you look to get the ball forward quickly. I'll give Warne time to get it right before I call for his head.

[InstaRam]

36 minutes ago, Yoxoram said:

It's funny really. When I play sidewards a few yards, I have a nearly 100% successful pass rate, but when I move the ball forward quickly into the attacking half (sometimes creating chances and occasionally getting an assist and certainly creating some excitement) my percentage pass success rate drops. I do know what type of pass I prefer to make and watch when I'm at a game, and surprisingly it's not the sleep inducing side to side passing and back again.

It's fairly easy to get decent possession stats if you pass side to side etc but they will drop if you look to get the ball forward quickly. I'll give Warne time to get it right before I call for his head.

I agree it sounds good in theory but we have not really seen it in practice. With Roseniors style we actually only needed to do things a bit faster while with Warnes style we need to do a lot of things a lot better. Problem is all other stats (shots, XG for and against etc) shows we are far away from finding a successful way of playing. I wouldn't have any problem with a low number of passes and a low number of successful passes IF we managed to create more chances and ultimately score more goals than our opponents. There are however very few teams which manage to show that combination over a longer period of time I would guess.

I also still hope Warne can get it right but that hope has been reduced due to the fact we have looked like a children's team kicking and running with no understanding of how play patterns can be executed.

Wigan and Lincoln games gives a small hope that we might actually get it to work altough I don't really now if Lincoln played for real or treated last game as a friendly. Time will tell I guess and with a few winnable games coming up the style might change to a more successful one fingers crossed.

Edited September 20, 2023 by InstaRam
Fat fingers

[G STAR RAM]

No shots on target at home...Rosenior out?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No shots on target at home...Rosenior out?

It's missing the sideways ball stats,which,I would imagine,have smashed Leeds efforts.

[Jubbs]

Rosenior's fault