Fan Forum (not this one)

[Rev]

Pearce is either incompetent, or a coward. 

Neither trait is particularly desirable in any employee, never mind in a CEO.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 hours ago, WystonRam said:

Derby’s issue was we backloaded the final year of the players contract with too high a value , when a football player asset ends up as zero value at the and of their final year, as they can walk away from their contract for free. The policy itself is completely acceptable in financial reporting, but assumes an asset has a value at the end of a contract term, like a medical dwvice for example, but for X and after a 5 year depreciation it could be sold for Y, as it still has a financial balue.  The panel that decided our eventual punishment was scathing that we were not clear enough we had changed our amortisation policy, to have a players value disproportionately loaded to the final year of said contract. This is how we we were able to spend big money on so many players, and had them on long term contracts, some shorter but with the club having the “option to extend”. Kieron Maguire was the person who exposed us as afar as i recall.

Chelsea are doing similar to us  but i am sure their end of year 8 asset/player valuation will be near zero. 

That's not right. The club's policy always resulted in a £0 'value' at the end of the contract, with the majority written off in the final year.

The initial panel stated we needed to adequately describe our policy in the accounts.

Upon appeal, it was decided that we needed to use a better model  rather than using values based on a wide range of parameters including Transfermarkt.

It was only upon administration that the club (or more accurately the administrators), drew a line under the fiasco and accepted the use of a standard straight line method and took the points penalty. Prior to this, the club were still working on an alternative non-linear amortisation policy which would have met the criteria set by the LAP.

Later that season, the EFL introduced new P&S rules which prohibited anything other than a straight line method.

Every club "has the option to extend". It's a standard practice, but the straight line method is still applied based on remaining amount to be written off and the new length of contract.

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, Rev said:

Pearce is either incompetent, or a coward. 

Neither trait is particularly desirable in any employee, never mind in a CEO.

Without knowing exactly what happened during our darkest hour it’s difficult to disagree. However, unless he knows more than we do (very likely) or sees skills and attributes that make Pearce a worthy CEO, couldn’t you say the same about DC for not replacing him?

I suspect there is more to the administration story than we’re allowed to know and, at the moment, trust DC’s judgement.

 

[Gerry Daly]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Finally got round to watching thr Fans Forum. First off, I'll apologise for jumping to conclusion based off the feedback from individuals who attended and put their own slant on responses to questions. Having now listened to the foruk in full, these are my takes on what was said:

Pearce confirmed that Clowes paid above the minimum required to creditors upon exiting administration.

Warne acknowledged the lack of RBs and CFs at the club when he took over as manager - which begs the question why we did nothing to address those areas in January despite also losing a CF. In fairness, we have got the bodies in this summer - 2 RB/RWBs signed, and now 4 CF options. Warne mentioned 4 RBs are out long term (Ward, Wilson, Rooney and Bardell?)

On transfers in general, Warne believes we've built a good squad over the summer but feels we've been unlucky with injuries which have had an impact on our start to the seaso. Thinks the team will play better once players are back from injury. Got to agree, when you have the likes of Bird and Ward missing. Warne feels we'll be at least top 6 this season, possibly top 2 depending on how the team gels and what happens with injuries.

Warne and Pearce bother referenced 2-3 years to get the academy up to speed again. There's a focus on signing 15 year olds as U21 signings are expensive.

Warne made a joke about not wanting to be quizzed on who the academy players are (faces on a wall and naming them). This has irked me, as he should make it his job to know every single one of the U18s and U21s, so he knows who's likely to get through into the first team. He did however say he wants as many players to come through the academy into the first team. Either the club generates cash from sales or they form part of thr first team. In both cases that's more budget which can be put towards the rest of the squad. Suggestions that not many academy players were involved in training last season, but a lot more already this season. Buxton tells him a lot about where U18 and U21 are in their development. I got the feeling Warne really likes DBrown, so we should see him get opportunities this season.

Warne watches U21 and U18 games, (but didn't get the score right for the U21s earlier that day). Tries to watch the first half of U21 games on Saturdays prior to first team games.

On style of play, Warne's desired style of play has been mentioned a few times on here and sounds like it will be good to watch. However, I still have reservations that we'll see that we'll see that until we move on from a sqaud with a lot of over 30s in it. Potentially won't see it work until next season.

On transfers, we haven't paid any upfront fees this summer. Sounds like we are recruiting based on stats. Club thinks it would be difficult to sign players from overseas whilst in League 1. The signings we make are with a view to disposing of them before they become a burden on the wage bill. Hard to argue with this, but you would have hoped there are more players we could have signed eith potential who would grow with the club. With Warne wanting to play 352, we should have signed another LWB with neither Elder nor Forsyth being suited to the role.

On signing Waggy, he said he didn't want to sign Waghorn mostly due to age. "Wasn't interested at all". However, he liked how he interacted with the rest of the squad when here for the testimonial. Contradictory to his previous comments regarding 'ego'. 

Sibley is back in training. Best finisher at the club. Warne thinks he will be at his best playing as a 10 (inferring a 3421). However, Warne also stated his preference for playing 352. Sibley may not be ready for Portsmouth, but likely to be in the sqaud next week. Thompson was the fittest player in the squad in pre-season. Warne didn't think he did enough in training last season and didn't deserve to play.

Hourihane said small teams raise their game when they come to Pride Park and we need to deal with them better. Felt invincible when on the good run last season and struggled to pinpoint the downturn in form (a small hint that he thinks it was due to burnout).

Hourihane wants to be in a system which results in him being around the edge of the box for shots and crosses. Waghorn doesn't want to play out on the wing. He wants to play in an attacking team playing on the front foot. Both mentioned players need to be adaptable to the manager in charge if they're to have a career in football - a strong message to academy players who want to get a chance in the first team.

 

Overall, I like what Warne wants to do, but I need to see more of it becoming a reality rather than just words.

Thanks for that I found it reassuring

[RoyMac5]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Overall, I like what Warne wants to do, but I need to see more of it becoming a reality rather than just words.

Absolutely.
Last season we were told that he said he was adaptable and happy with the squad but he still tried to shoehorn them into his preferred system. He wants pace but buys old age, etc. Liked that he changed his excuse about not wanting Waggy. Sounds a bit like he’s getting his ‘not got the right players for the system’ talk ready.

So yeah, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Without knowing exactly what happened during our darkest hour it’s difficult to disagree. However, unless he knows more than we do (very likely) or sees skills and attributes that make Pearce a worthy CEO, couldn’t you say the same about DC for not replacing him?

I suspect there is more to the administration story than we’re allowed to know and, at the moment, trust DC’s judgement.

 

As has been said, didn’t Pearce have to also ‘sign the cheques’? Surely he knew we weren’t paying the HMRC? 

Edited September 14, 2023 by RoyMac5

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Absolutely.
Last season we were told that he said he was adaptable and happy with the squad but he still tried to shoehorn them into his preferred system. He wants pace but buys old age, etc. Liked that he changed his excuse about not wanting Waggy. Sounds a bit like he’s getting his ‘not got the right players for the system’ talk ready.

Do you think that was achievable during the summer transfer window?  How many players did we end up signing?  Around 10 was it?  I forget - and I think we agree we could have done with at least a couple more.

So rather than bringing in 10 freebies, lets say we instead bought in 10 pacey 23yos.  Whats a good 23yo worth these days that will have the potential to play in the Championship next season.  £500k? £1m? Multiply that by 10 or 12.  Then add on agent fees and wages.

Given the scale of the rebuild since administration, to both the first team and the academy, I think that some peoples expectations and criticisms are a little ahead of where we actually are as a club.

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Do you think that was achievable during the summer transfer window?  How many players did we end up signing?  Around 10 was it?  I forget - and I think we agree we could have done with at least a couple more.

So rather than bringing in 10 freebies, lets say we instead bought in 10 pacey 23yos.  Whats a good 23yo worth these days that will have the potential to play in the Championship next season.  £500k? £1m? Multiply that by 10 or 12.  Then add on agent fees and wages.

Given the scale of the rebuild since administration, to both the first team and the academy, I think that some peoples expectations and criticisms are a little ahead of where we actually are as a club.

I have no idea how achievable it was - the recruitment team recruited players that were, mostly it seems, also wanted by other clubs. They are aware of the non-league and foreign market potential. The final choice would have been Warne’s and the signee. 
He told us how/what he wants to play, and he’s said he’s adaptable so that will have helped his decision. If he didn’t sign a certain player then we have to assume he thought they weren’t right for him. 
Bottom line is that he has had a good budget.

Edited September 14, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Curtains]

25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I have no idea how achievable it was - the recruitment team recruited players that were, mostly it seems, also wanted by other clubs. They are aware of the non-league and foreign market potential. The final choice would have been Warne’s and the signee. 
He told us how/what he wants to play, and he’s said he’s adaptable so that will have helped his decision. If he didn’t sign a certain player then we have to assume he thought they weren’t right for him. 
Bottom line is that he has had a good budget.

Did I miss hear but didn’t he say he hadn’t signed anyone for money . 

[Tamworthram]

42 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Did I miss hear but didn’t he say he hadn’t signed anyone for money . 

That’s what I heard.

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

As has been said, didn’t Pearce have to also ‘sign the cheques’? Surely he knew we weren’t paying the HMRC? 

He did, but Mel took them to post.

[WystonRam]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

That's not right. The club's policy always resulted in a £0 'value' at the end of the contract, with the majority written off in the final year.

The initial panel stated we needed to adequately describe our policy in the accounts.

Upon appeal, it was decided that we needed to use a better model  rather than using values based on a wide range of parameters including Transfermarkt.

It was only upon administration that the club (or more accurately the administrators), drew a line under the fiasco and accepted the use of a standard straight line method and took the points penalty. Prior to this, the club were still working on an alternative non-linear amortisation policy which would have met the criteria set by the LAP.

Later that season, the EFL introduced new P&S rules which prohibited anything other than a straight line method.

Every club "has the option to extend". It's a standard practice, but the straight line method is still applied based on remaining amount to be written off and the new length of contract.

Unfortunately we did not assign a zero value at end of contract and had a “residual value”,.

[DCFC1388]

Just watching the fans forum, Warne said the ref report back from the Bolton game confirmed-

- theirs shouldnt have been a pen

- it wasnt a red card for Wildsmith

- our goal should have stood & not been given as a pen

- we should have had a 2nd pen

So goes to show how incompentent the ref was! 4 big decisions confirmed as being wrong

[Gaspode]

1 minute ago, DCFC1388 said:

Just watching the fans forum, Warne said the ref report back from the Bolton game confirmed-

- theirs shouldnt have been a pen

- it wasnt a red card for Wildsmith

- our goal should have stood & not been given as a pen

- we should have had a 2nd pen

So goes to show how incompentent the ref was! 4 big decisions confirmed as being wrong

and yet you can bet ref will be out there in charge of another League One fixture this weekend.....

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Did I miss hear but didn’t he say he hadn’t signed anyone for money . 

I didn’t say he did? But the option was there, he chose to spend the budget another way.

[RoyMac5]

40 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

He did, but Mel took them to post.

Bet he didn’t put a stamp on them! 😄

[Ghost of Clough]

26 minutes ago, WystonRam said:

Unfortunately we did not assign a zero value at end of contract and had a “residual value”,.

Read it again. "The EFL's understanding was that...". This wasn't actually the case and if you read further you'll also see the club's explanation of the policy.

[eddielewis]

It was pleasing to see that they are wanting to delve into signing overseas players/non league players. I was a bit surprised both Warne or Pearce not mention that with the new FA rules coming in we should be able to sign up to 2 players without work permits so the requirements of international caps in age groups that Warne mentioned are going to be non existent now. 

I understand that we are league 1 so we were not the most attractive destination but we should dip into the J League. The talent that is coming from Japan has got better each year with more and more players playing in Europe and the domestic league is a lot more physical than it once was. In terms of cost the most recent well known moves such as Mitoma, Hatate were around £1.5 mil with add ons and usually J League teams loan out the player first to see if he can settle in Europe, sell cheap but include a pretty hefty sell on fee if they become a success.

It something that could work and is very low risk.

[RadioactiveWaste]

We can show them Toyota thinks Derby is awesome.

[MaltRam]

14 hours ago, EnigmaRam said:

Surprised nobody asked about the mystery free transfer Warne was after 

As soon as he left I was kicking myself for not doing. Sorry all!