Fan Forum (not this one)

[Leeds Ram]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Maybe as part of his pennance along with his daily ritual of a hundred hail Mary's and our Fathers he's working for free for the club until he is released from his obligation when we are promoted to the Premiership 

Or he could say sorry, just once, publically, and admit the mistakes that were made and why he wants to put them right. The fact he's not done that is mind-boggling to me. 

[maxjam]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Or he could say sorry, just once, publically, and admit the mistakes that were made and why he wants to put them right. The fact he's not done that is mind-boggling to me. 

Because in this day and age apologising equals guilt and nothing will appease some people other than his sacking and subsequent ostracization.

He made an effort to come to the Fans Forum (he didn't have to) and asked us to judge him on his actions going forwards.  What he may or may not have done in the past, David Clowes probably knows a lot more than us and he's happy for him to remain.  Anything else is just fans with nothing else better to do arguing amongst themselves. 

[rynny]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Administration happening before it did is not 'worse' it's the same outcome we ended up in. His management of the club's finances put us in the very real position of a week until extinction. I'm not sure how it gets worse than that from a managerial point of view. 

If it happened earlier, say just before covid, then it it would have been worse, we would have struggled to attract anyone other than even more charlatans than what we did.

[Tyler Durden]

20 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Or he could say sorry, just once, publically, and admit the mistakes that were made and why he wants to put them right. The fact he's not done that is mind-boggling to me. 

Has MM ever actually publically said sorry for the mess he got the club into then ran away from? 

Not trying to be argumentative here as I genuinely can't remember if he did, or he just used weasel words to defend the shambles he presided over. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, rynny said:

That assumes that what Sam Rush was allegedly doing was straight forward and easy to pick up on. Maybe it was quite intricate and difficult to unravel and Pearce was the one who uncovered the alleged offences?

Playing devil's advocate, what if Pearce reigned Mel in? What if things would have been a lot worse if Pearce wasn't here and Mel had plans to spend even more money and try to exploit even more perceived loop holes and Pearce stopped him? 

Pearce may have signed an NDA and can't mention anything at all. Another reason is that Mel may still be a friend and he doesn't want to throw his friend under the bus, anymore than has already happened. Or it could simply be that he wants to draw a line under what could be the worst period in his life and move forward, and not have to defend himself constantly? There is more than your 2 perceived reasonings.

Yeah and what if Pearce is an extra-terrestrial lizard creature inhabiting the long dead human form of an ex-car room salesman?

I reiterate again for the nth time - all I want is for him to be honest about it and not treat the fans like mugs

"Not have to defend himself constantly"?? He's never once even tried, to defend himself, and I'm not asking him to. Just a mea culpa would be all it takes

 

 

[rynny]

20 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah and what if Pearce is an extra-terrestrial lizard creature inhabiting the long dead human form of an ex-car room salesman?

I reiterate again for the nth time - all I want is for him to be honest about it and not treat the fans like mugs

"Not have to defend himself constantly"?? He's never once even tried, to defend himself, and I'm not asking him to. Just a mea culpa would be all it takes

 

 

The point of that part of my post is that there is so much more than your "he was either negligent or complicit" line. As I said, I was playing devil's advocate and trying to add some balance to the argument.

We don't know whether or not he had any say, or control or anything we can blame him for, we don't know if he is allowed to say anything. It is difficult to assume guilt on someone without all facts, likewise we can't absolve him of all blame.

[Big Trav]

No one really knows what happened in the admin situation. What we do know is DC backs Pearce, who by all accounts didn’t really get much chance to have an input in the Mel era. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

8 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

Being a leading member of the managerial infrastructure leading to the club functionally going bust isn't enough for you?

The club went bust because the source of working capital decided to stop providing it. I doubt Pearce was able to influence that decision. 

[Mucker1884]

12 hours ago, MaltRam said:

Stephen Pearce.

Oops!

My bad!  🙄

👍🍻

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Just watched the first part of the forum. 
 

To say that the U21s game only finished a few hours before the forum and he couldn’t even remember the score line along with not knowing the name of the player who’d just scored a hatrick is disrespectful to all of the academy. The only players he made reference to was his own first team players that played in that game. 

[DerbyAleMan]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Has MM ever actually publically said sorry for the mess he got the club into then ran away from? 

Not trying to be argumentative here as I genuinely can't remember if he did, or he just used weasel words to defend the shambles he presided over. 

No mate he just ran away, like the coward he is, still got a bank full off money, his actions showed me he did not give a f*** about OUR great club. Once A Ram Always A Ram. 

[Leeds Ram]

4 hours ago, maxjam said:

Because in this day and age apologising equals guilt and nothing will appease some people other than his sacking and subsequent ostracization.

He made an effort to come to the Fans Forum (he didn't have to) and asked us to judge him on his actions going forwards.  What he may or may not have done in the past, David Clowes probably knows a lot more than us and he's happy for him to remain.  Anything else is just fans with nothing else better to do arguing amongst themselves. 

'He made an effort to come to the fans forum' and deliberately didn't answer the questions about the past. Personally, yes some people will want him out no matter what, and I don't completely blame them, but i think it's obvious to pretty much everyone that an apology and some sort of explanation is what should be given after what happened. 

[Leeds Ram]

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

The club went bust because the source of working capital decided to stop providing it. I doubt Pearce was able to influence that decision. 

It was clear the club was in financial difficulty before Morris decided to eventually pull the plug. Our brushing up dangerously close to FFP using dubious loopholes to get us through, delaying the publication of the accounts and relying ever more on the academy as the revenue was drying up. I also doubt that Pearce was unaware that there were potential problems lurking right around the corner. Does someone one day just randomly go 'by the way, i think we need to go into administration' because there's no more money. Whatever happened in regard to this, Pearce allowed the institution to be pushed to its financial limits so that when the plug was eventually pulled disaster erupted. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leeds Ram

[Leeds Ram]

4 hours ago, rynny said:

If it happened earlier, say just before covid, then it it would have been worse, we would have struggled to attract anyone other than even more charlatans than what we did.

If it had happened even earlier then the finances may not have been in such a parlous state to require the kind of intervention that was eventually needed. The big issue was that Pearce was CEO when the club was pushed to its absolute financial limits ensuring when administration did occur we genuinely risked extinction. 

[Leeds Ram]

4 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Has MM ever actually publically said sorry for the mess he got the club into then ran away from? 

Not trying to be argumentative here as I genuinely can't remember if he did, or he just used weasel words to defend the shambles he presided over. 

I'm not sure if he did. His interview with Ed Dawes was horrific and he just seemed to be evading taking any responsibility blaming everything on covid. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It was clear the club was running into financial difficulty before Morris decided to eventually pull the plug. Our brushing up dangerously close to FFP using dubious loopholes to get us through and relying ever more on the academy as the revenue was drying up. I also doubt that Pearce was unaware that there were potential problems lurking right around the corner. Does someone one day just randomly go 'by the way, i think we need to go into administration' because there's no more money. Whatever happened in regard to this, Pearce allowed the institution to be pushed to its financial limits so that when the plug was eventually pulled disaster erupted. 

Half of the EFL and PL would fall under this description

[Leeds Ram]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Half of the EFL and PL would fall under this description

 That is irrelevant to my general point, which is that we were run irresponsibly. Even if others operate in a similar way, it doesn't mean they are well run. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leeds Ram

[ilkleyram]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

'He made an effort to come to the fans forum' and deliberately didn't answer the questions about the past. Personally, yes some people will want him out no matter what, and I don't completely blame them, but i think it's obvious to pretty much everyone that an apology and some sort of explanation is what should be given after what happened. 

At the risk of starting some sort of Yorkshire in fighting I don’t want an apology from Stephen Pearce or Mel Morris for that matter. It would be as meaningless (to me) as the government apologising for slavery or nicking the Elgin marbles or any other historic ‘failure’. What happened happened and a ‘sorry’ achieves nothing for me. What’s more important is what happens now and in the future.  Clowes knows the guy and his work and clearly thinks he’s the right person for the job now and that’s his choice not mine. I trust Clowes with the whole club so why not with his choice of CEO?

 I would love an explanation and to know who said and did what, when and to whom but that’s just out of personal curiosity and nosiness.  It’s never going to happen in a month of Sundays. Everyone has signed up to the NDAs and will be worried about legal action if they break them. That suits the club as much as it does all the individuals involved because it prevents all the coals being endlessly raked over and allows club, owner, CEO, EFL, administrator and everyone else to move on. Perhaps we all should too because nothing’s going to change.

[uttoxram75]

34 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

It would be as meaningless (to me) as the government apologising for slavery or nicking the Elgin marbles or any other historic ‘failure’. What happened happened and a ‘sorry’ achieves nothing for me. What’s more important is what happens now and in the future.

This.

Don't apologise. Make a committment not to do it in the future. Embed it in Law not to allow slavery or nick any marbles, not just Elgins!

 

I've never forgiven a scutty stokie who nicked me marbles at school in 1970. Even if he apologised now i'd still t*** him.

[Leeds Ram]

42 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

At the risk of starting some sort of Yorkshire in fighting I don’t want an apology from Stephen Pearce or Mel Morris for that matter. It would be as meaningless (to me) as the government apologising for slavery or nicking the Elgin marbles or any other historic ‘failure’. What happened happened and a ‘sorry’ achieves nothing for me. What’s more important is what happens now and in the future.  Clowes knows the guy and his work and clearly thinks he’s the right person for the job now and that’s his choice not mine. I trust Clowes with the whole club so why not with his choice of CEO?

 I would love an explanation and to know who said and did what, when and to whom but that’s just out of personal curiosity and nosiness.  It’s never going to happen in a month of Sundays. Everyone has signed up to the NDAs and will be worried about legal action if they break them. That suits the club as much as it does all the individuals involved because it prevents all the coals being endlessly raked over and allows club, owner, CEO, EFL, administrator and everyone else to move on. Perhaps we all should too because nothing’s going to change.

I mean the critical difference between your examples, and the Pearce situation is that no UK politician alive is responsible for slavery or nicking the Elgin marbles. They would be apologising on behalf of the institution, which becomes more complex. Pearce's actions have in the very recent past damaged the institution itself.  Again, I'm not expecting everyone to agree but a degree of contrition about what happened and how it happened i think is not just the right thing to do but would also be cathartic for a lot of the fan base who still feel very aggrieved about what happened.