Match Thread: vs Bolton (A)

[S8TY]

19 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You can’t pine after a McClaren style team, but neglect the fact that that very team took four to five years to build and a lot of tweaking and some really tough patches to swallow beforehand.

We can all accept the football isn’t good to watch at the moment and there are issues to resolve. Maybe we need to take the pain before some joy follows.

No-one is enjoying our play at the moment, but with time, is it possible things will click? We didn’t start playing our best and most coherent football last season until November/December, but once we found our stride, we got results and played some lovely football. So let’s not pretend it’s not possible and let’s not pretend all of our good players will be bypassed.

We’re going through a tough patch at the moment but surely we should see what this team looks like when we have a settled eleven with a clear and well-informed approach?

Warne is still obviously on a fact finding mission, much like he was in his first 6-10 games in charge last autumn when people said the same things you are saying now.

We need to ride it out and see how things settle down and whether it bears any fruit in the months to come.

It didn't take Mac 4 to 5 years to get us playing nice stuff ?

He took over a side that was predominantly possesion type players the same Warne did , the difference is Mac tweaked it and got us scoring more and playing better.

Warne has come in and not got us playing better, this is my point, why appoint a manager who doesn't play similarly to what we had in our squad, nothing wrong with getting us fitter but I still think a good manager/coach who likes to play football on the grass would've got this team firing and what i mean by that is...playing more cohesively and controlling games more.

We are no more in control of a game whether playing Bolton a top side in this division or a Fleetwood who aren't 

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, Ilsonram12 said:

Last week it was hms piss the league now it's warne ain't got a clue again 🙄

i was far from convinced with the peterborough win. They scored 2 goals, hit the bar, and had one cleared off the line i think, with numerous other chances. On another day we concede 4/5 goals easily. The goals we scored were somewhat fortunate themselves. One was from a deflected cross, one worldie from waghorn, one p-roller that gets flicked and wrong foots their GK, and a set piece which their GK probably should have saved.  None of them really have any pattern of play, they are all just moments. We play mainly without the ball and have no style or tactical aspects to our game. There are much smaller clubs in this division with worse players that play far superior football to us. You can't deny that outside of the initial manager bounce we have gradually just regressed under warne. 

[Chris_Martin]

51 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You can’t pine after a McClaren style team, but neglect the fact that that very team took four to five years to build and a lot of tweaking and some really tough patches to swallow beforehand.

 

Mac got us playing fantastic attacking football almost immediately and that continued regardless of what players we put out or brought to the club. 

[Jourdan]

22 minutes ago, S8TY said:

It didn't take Mac 4 to 5 years to get us playing nice stuff ?

He took over a side that was predominantly possesion type players the same Warne did , the difference is Mac tweaked it and got us scoring more and playing better.

Warne has come in and not got us playing better, this is my point, why appoint a manager who doesn't play similarly to what we had in our squad, nothing wrong with getting us fitter but I still think a good manager/coach who likes to play football on the grass would've got this team firing and what i mean by that is...playing more cohesively and controlling games more.

We are no more in control of a game whether playing Bolton a top side in this division or a Fleetwood who aren't 

The squad McClaren inherited took 4-5 years to build. Rosenior built our squad in a matter of weeks having to get what he could, and with little to no thought to the future.

That’s the point.

McClaren was able to come in and raise levels so quickly, one because he is a very good coach but also largely because all of the hard work and laying of foundations had been done and the blood, sweat and tears had been wiped away.

We are still in the blood, sweat and (a lot of) tears stage. So maybe that’s the reason why Warne hasn’t had the same impact as McClaren - because the squad still requires a lot of work due to the restrictions in place, and perhaps he will have to build those foundations.

[SuffolkRam]

4 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

So an hour sat on the bench gave him all the headroom he needed? 

Yes, he just missed out on a move nobody died.  He wasn’t in pieces, just not best prepared for the game after spending most of Friday afternoon walking around Starbucks car park!

[DavesaRam]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The squad McClaren inherited took 4-5 years to build. Rosenior built our squad in a matter of weeks having to get what he could, and with little to no thought to the future.

That’s the point.

McClaren was able to come in and raise levels so quickly, one because he is a very good coach but also largely because all of the hard work and laying of foundations had been done and the blood, sweat and tears had been wiped away.

We are still in the blood, sweat and (a lot of) tears stage. So maybe that’s the reason why Warne hasn’t had the same impact as McClaren - because the squad still requires a lot of work due to the restrictions in place, and perhaps he will have to build those foundations.

That doesn't stop the fact that he has got a squad who could do really well in the is League if only we would play football, rather than this "kick and rush" rubbish he is dishing up at the moment. 

 

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The squad McClaren inherited took 4-5 years to build. Rosenior built our squad in a matter of weeks having to get what he could, and with little to no thought to the future.

That’s the point.

McClaren was able to come in and raise levels so quickly, one because he is a very good coach but also largely because all of the hard work and laying of foundations had been done and the blood, sweat and tears had been wiped away.

We are still in the blood, sweat and (a lot of) tears stage. So maybe that’s the reason why Warne hasn’t had the same impact as McClaren - because the squad still requires a lot of work due to the restrictions in place, and perhaps he will have to build those foundations.

I still refuse to buy the idea that Rosenior’s squad was just some random bunch of players chucked together with no real thought.  Obviously it was put together under unusual circumstances etc, but it was absolutely a squad that was built with 433/4231 possession-based football in mind.

McClaren succeeded because the squad he was given fit with the way he wanted his team to operate (you can debate whether it was McClaren adapting to fit what he was given, or a good appointment to fit what we had etc).  Warne is struggling because the squad he was given do not fit with what he is trying to do, he is unable to adapt to fit it, and he is struggling to change the squad to fit what he wants (financial restrictions etc).

The length of time it took to build the squad really doesn’t matter that much, it’s whether the manager is using what he has well or not.  Warne is currently not.  You can argue whether that’s Warne’s fault, or a bad decision to appoint him in the first place.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

He was actually really good as a pundit - he clearly understood what was going on in the pitch and was eloquent explaining it.  Well worth a listen back.

The gist off it was, he’d talked quite a bit pre-match about how other teams had beaten Bolton recently - played a wide front 3 to stretch their back 3 and pick holes in it - and was baffled that we hadn’t really tried to do the same.  A fair bit about players not being able to do the jobs they were asked to do too - Fornah as a number 10, NML as a wingback etc.  It could just be me being my usual negative self, but I think he was pretty shocked about the whole way we approached the match and was biting his tongue, because he didn’t want to be too rude about Warne.

He also said the key was too press on the huge lump at the back to stop him moving into midfield in his post match. Something obvious that I noticed from minute 3.  Our manager didn't inexplicably.

[SSD]

13 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The squad McClaren inherited took 4-5 years to build. Rosenior built our squad in a matter of weeks having to get what he could, and with little to no thought to the future.

That’s the point.

McClaren was able to come in and raise levels so quickly, one because he is a very good coach but also largely because all of the hard work and laying of foundations had been done and the blood, sweat and tears had been wiped away.

We are still in the blood, sweat and (a lot of) tears stage. So maybe that’s the reason why Warne hasn’t had the same impact as McClaren - because the squad still requires a lot of work due to the restrictions in place, and perhaps he will have to build those foundations.

I agree that this squad needs time to build. Mac was fortunate those football relationships were built by the previous manager. The major difference is Warne had a clear choice and he wants to play the way he's always played and not evolve. He can choose to try and play easier on the eye football, something supporters can back and have sympathy if we don't particularly play well and/or get the results. 

Over the summer I thought I'd see a pattern of plan and a style being formed by Warne. All I've seen so far is the same as last year and not in a good way.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Archie said:

That sounds like a footballing decision to me. As a fan who knows the club and the fanbase so well, I'm almost certain he would have factored in style/substance/philosophy into his decision making. Otherwise why offer 4 years? I don't see how you can make such major decisions without doing so.

and if it WAS a ‘football decision’ to appoint warne, it would have been a result of Warne saying to DC: yes I like to play high energy attractive football.

We all heard him say it 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

22 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The squad McClaren inherited took 4-5 years to build. Rosenior built our squad in a matter of weeks having to get what he could, and with little to no thought to the future.

That’s the point.

McClaren was able to come in and raise levels so quickly, one because he is a very good coach but also largely because all of the hard work and laying of foundations had been done and the blood, sweat and tears had been wiped away.

We are still in the blood, sweat and (a lot of) tears stage. So maybe that’s the reason why Warne hasn’t had the same impact as McClaren - because the squad still requires a lot of work due to the restrictions in place, and perhaps he will have to build those foundations.

Warne hasn't had the same impact as he hasn't got anywhere near the man management talent or tactical nous within match play.  It's fairly straightforward to me and isn't likely to change.

[Walkley Ram]

27 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Mac got us playing fantastic attacking football almost immediately and that continued regardless of what players we put out or brought to the club. 

Mac looked at the players we had, and found their strengths. He then worked out how to make best use of those strengths. That's a top coach in my eyes. He didn't need transfer windows to get his kind of players in. It's a very different approach to many coaches today, which is surprising given how little time many are given.

[B4ev6is]

Hey guys  can derby appeal the red card if we can I say go for it but I could not see what really happened so if anyone help me.

But we should have has 3 pens today and having same ref that we had other week more than happy to book our players not theres.

[Walkley Ram]

1 minute ago, B4ev6is said:

Hey guys  can derby appeal the red card if we can I say go for it but I could not see what really happened so if anyone help me.

But we should have has 3 pens today and having same ref that we had other week more than happy to book our players not theres.

Ref was awful today. One of those games where I bet the players felt the world was against them.

I assume they'll appeal the red, but a change in goal might not be a bad thing.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Ref was awful today. One of those games where I bet the players felt the world was against them.

I assume they'll appeal the red, but a change in goal might not be a bad thing.

Not to sure about that the way that 2nd dropped in.

[B4ev6is]

4 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Ref was awful today. One of those games where I bet the players felt the world was against them.

I assume they'll appeal the red, but a change in goal might not be a bad thing.

Until that point they never looked like scoring in that goal and they knee it.

[Tombo]

6 hours ago, Big Trav said:

Second best all first half, grew into it nearer the end and got a penalty after the ball was in the net, and after another stonewall penalty. Then they get a penalty, looked on the edge of the box but could’ve been inside. Second half starts, Bradley (who was playing really well) drops (another) clanger leading to Wildsmith to get desperate and get sent off (rightly or wrongly) but the referee took a good 40 seconds to make a decision and the linesman didn’t flag it. Then we’re away to Bolton who will be top 2 with 10 men. We defended really well, Nelson in particular but then they get a fluke own goal that loops in. We get pegged back and have a few chances near the end. Wasn’t a great watch but no where near worth the meltdown in my opinion 

Thanks for the summary

Your transfer news has been sketchy at best all summer but I do in all good faith respect you as a poster 🙏 

[Chris_Martin]

41 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The squad McClaren inherited took 4-5 years to build. Rosenior built our squad in a matter of weeks having to get what he could, and with little to no thought to the future.

That’s the point.

McClaren was able to come in and raise levels so quickly, one because he is a very good coach but also largely because all of the hard work and laying of foundations had been done and the blood, sweat and tears had been wiped away.

We are still in the blood, sweat and (a lot of) tears stage. So maybe that’s the reason why Warne hasn’t had the same impact as McClaren - because the squad still requires a lot of work due to the restrictions in place, and perhaps he will have to build those foundations.

but none of those players were brought in to play McClaren style of football...

[Steve How Hard?]

34 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He also said the key was too press on the huge lump at the back to stop him moving into midfield in his post match. Something obvious that I noticed from minute 3.  Our manager didn't inexplicably.

I thought exactly that watching the game. He didn't even look comfortable doing it. Had we pressed him from minute 1 we'd have surely got some change out of him. It took until about the 85th minute before we actually put him under any pressure whilst in possession. Kudos to Collins for clattering him. 

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

I think the frustration is in inexplicable decisions. Would anyone here have played Fornah as a number 10? NML as a wing back? Bradley instead of Cashin after Rooney’s awful injury? 

There just seems to be some really simple fixes and I am mystified as to why they aren’t made when seem so obvious. That’s before you get into in game tactics and the failure to react. Why did we give them so much time and space? They were vulnerable at the back so why not set up to attack them?

Frustrating and I can’t see an end to it. I won’t get on to what I think of Elder and Bradley.

On the plus side - Fozzy gets better and better, Nelson did OK and John-Jules is better than what we had. And we won’t have that ref again for a while - hopefully. 
 

🐏