Money

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

Genuine question so pls dont shoot me down if it is a generally known fact as I'm not in the area anymore.

Are the spend constraints due to EFL or DC?

If the former its no wonder we are struggling to buy players who can improve us.

If its the latter its a bigger worry as it shows we haven't got the monies available to add those players who can make a difference.

We struck lucky with DM last season. Without him we would have been top half at best

[sage]

We already have a thread on this re last years budget v this one's, I suggest you put your tin hat on now

[CBRammette]

1 minute ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Genuine question so pls dont shoot me down if it is a generally known fact as I'm not in the area anymore.

Are the spend constraints due to EFL or DC?

If the former its no wonder we are struggling to buy players who can improve us.

If its the latter its a bigger worry as it shows we haven't got the monies available to add those players who can make a difference.

We struck lucky with DM last season. Without him we would have been top half at best

Its been mentioned by PW that we have a budget agreed with EFL, before Knight sale I think. But whether there were always limits to that budget from EFL or if they just sign off on the club's budget as long as they think reasonable no idea. 
If the spend constraints are due to DC who has already saved the club from armageddon wishing not to

-further risk the money his family have made or the businesses in which the family has employed people

- or manage the club sustainably after where we got to under Morris

then I am not worried at all. I think we will probably never know just how badly Mel left everything at the club and it is going to be a slow build. There obviously needed to be reinvestment in the decimated academy as well as the first team which presumably all comes from the same pot. 
 

I am not shooting you down saying the above but just I do trust DC is doing things correctly for the long term future of the club. Having said that I do think its important we get out of this division ASAP as if/when crowds start to drop off longer term we will be more constrained

[Sparkle]

We are shopping at home bargains but so is everyone else in our league. We also didn’t put prices up on season tickets and nearly every football club runs on massive losses. I don’t and can’t expect the man who saved the (my) football club to be throwing money around unless it’s brilliantly spent. It looks like we have just paid out for Jozwiak as well. 

[Mucker1884]

I get the impression that the amount David Clowes is prepared to stump up out of his own pocket is comfortably within any remaining constraints that have been mutually agreed with The EFL.

Personally, I have absolutely no qualms about David Clowes setting himself a budget limit, and keeping to it/within it.  In fact, I'm a big fan of such a sensible approach, and ergo, am a big fan of the guy that saved us.

🐏

 

 

[Mr Tibbs]

25 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

If its the latter its a bigger worry as it shows we haven't got the monies available to add those players who can make a difference.

Is it a big worry? A big worry was almost going out of business.

If DC is at his limits with investment and care is taken to protect the clubs finances then so be it. I think better communication from him in his interview during pre-season would have injected some realism into the fan base but people seem to have taken it the other way. 

[InstaRam]

I think it's great if the club is being run in a sustainable way from now on. Don't mind to see a team made of players from the academy and low budget transfers. Won't forget how it felt when Derby County almost didn't exist anymore and don't ever want to see that chaos again. It hurts when we lose off course but that feeling goes away when we win. This rebuild will take time but I enjoy the ride. Not worried at all with Clowes at the top compared to the Morris show.  

[Tyler Durden]

Don't shoot me down....but am concerned how things could pan out over the short to medium term - together with the EFLs "help" Clowes is intending to run the club as a sustainable business (not a bad thing after the previous owner may I add).

However....in my humble opinion with this business model the longer we remain in League 1 the harder it then becomes year on year to escape from this league.

Attendances drop, which then affect the club's revenue which potentially cover the cost of players wages. Our better or best players get sold to cover running costs of the club and next to nothing of the fees recouped then are able to be reinvested even moderately for adequate replacements and this cycle continues with us effectively competing with the other x amount of League clubs on an even platform for bargain basement players. 

I'm not advocating going back to the boom and bust era of MM but reflecting on the game yesterday we are still desperately short of adequate - and I use the word adequate rather than stellar or world class - additions in a number of key positions.

If our budget is constraining these additions being made or its DC financial prudency then I fear for this season.

Having a competitive budget means exactly that nothing more nothing less. If we are constrained by not being able to pay even modest transfer fees as that limits the amount of players we can then being in then any advantage we may lever over other clubs has virtually been eroded. 

Again I'm not saying the above is a necessarily bad thing but there are definite consequences to it if Warne isn't able to transpose his magic from Rotherham to our club in putting together a team of players with virtually no cost AND galvanising them into promotion candidates. 

[dajstrawb]

I would guess our ‘transfer budget’ as such has been spent on Bielik and Jozwiak

[Ambitious]

I believe from reading between the lines that it’s a mixture of the two: we proposed a budget with the EFL, no doubt something Clowes was comfortable with, which was signed off. We can’t now negate on the budget and from my understanding the money raised from sales is inconsequential and will go to funding the club, but not the playing staff above what was already agreed with the EFL. 

We have gone down the route with signing experienced players, most of which will be on good money for this league, which has meant we just don’t have the budget for transfer fees. We have spent it on wages. 

If this year isn’t a success, we can point to the recruitment strategy and mishandling of the small budget we have (probably still the biggest in the league) as the reason. 

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I believe from reading between the lines that it’s a mixture of the two: we proposed a budget with the EFL, no doubt something Clowes was comfortable with, which was signed off. We can’t now negate on the budget and from my understanding the money raised from sales is inconsequential and will go to funding the club, but not the playing staff above what was already agreed with the EFL. 

We have gone down the route with signing experienced players, most of which will be on good money for this league, which has meant we just don’t have the budget for transfer fees. We have spent it on wages. 

If this year isn’t a success, we can point to the recruitment strategy and mishandling of the small budget we have (probably still the biggest in the league) as the reason. 

I actually sadly looked up the definition of the word competitive after Clowes had used that as his buzz word regards our budget this year:-

as good as or better than others of a comparable nature.

So basically Clowes has said our budget is as good as or better than our peers in League 1.

If we're then gobbling up or budget quicker than our rivals as we're recruiting experienced players on higher wages then it logically won't go as far and we find ourselves in the situation we're in now where we do have a competitive budget but can't make it stretch to realistically the 5 extra players we need.

The recruitment has been and continues to be pretty one dimensional to be fair and not sure as yet whose door to lay that at but currently despite having a competitive budget we still don't have a competitive team to definitely challenge for automatic promotion and my gut feel may be beyond top 6 as well. 

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

1 hour ago, dajstrawb said:

I would guess our ‘transfer budget’ as such has been spent on Bielik and Jozwiak

That’s my take on our finances too 👍🏻

We are a long way from clearing ourselves from the ‘Mel Morris Show’ shadows just yet 😢😢

[alram]

2 hours ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Genuine question so pls dont shoot me down if it is a generally known fact as I'm not in the area anymore.

Are the spend constraints due to EFL or DC?

If the former its no wonder we are struggling to buy players who can improve us.

If its the latter its a bigger worry as it shows we haven't got the monies available to add those players who can make a difference.

We struck lucky with DM last season. Without him we would have been top half at best

nobody can answer you definitively if they claim to they are guessing.

 

my guess is we have a specific budget to spend allowed by the EFL and can spend how we want but are opting to go for a high wage low fee approach

 

but either way its clear we dont have much to spend, we will learn about clowes next season when we shouldnt have an embargo. if it remains the same approach then it is a slight worry

Edited August 6, 2023 by alram

[TomTom92]

If we fail this season. Then next season will definitely be interesting. No EFL restrictions to hide behind. 
 
I’ll never say a bad word against DC. However, he rightly pointed out in his interview that for the last 30 years our success has been somewhat limited. As this selfishly covers my years of supporting Derby I’m as keen as anybody to see us start achieving. 
 
I fear if DC is GSEx2 then it could be another 10 years before we’re competing at the top end of the championship.  
 
I’d be interested to see who would win out of a match between PW promotion winning side 2 seasons ago and us today. I dare say Rotherham…which says it all.
 

Edited August 6, 2023 by TomTom92

[Guest]

There is so much evidence that getting out of this division is not solely based on budget and the fact we have been able to attract players from the Championship suggests ours is competitive at the least. You only need to look at Sunderland, Leeds, Ipswich being stuck in this division for prolonged periods with good budgets and the likes of Burton and Yeovil going up in spite of that. If we fail to get promoted last season, I wouldn't be pointing at lack of investment as the prominent reason 

[maxjam]

I think those days are well and truly behind us, even GSE propped up the club with £millions every season to keep us afloat.  We only started challenging regularly at the top of the Championship when MM decided to risk our very existence.

I know money doesn't guarantee success, but it is a good indicator of who will usually be competing at the top and the bottom of a division.  Assuming the fans keep turning up in numbers we'll always be a big team in Lg1 and once the final EFL restrictions have been lifted, we'll hopefully put that to good use.  Whether its this season or not, without trying to sound too arrogant it will only be a matter of time before we return to the Championship. 

Given our new sustainable philosophy, lets enjoy being a big fish in a small pond whilst it lasts and not have a meltdown over every result as we continue to find our way back after near bankruptcy - whilst a lot can obviously change, competing in the Championship under sustainable ownership imho won't see us flirt with the playoffs on a regular basis, the next few seasons might be the best we have for a while.

[YouRams]

I think alot of people have quickly forgotten how close we were to going bust. The fact there was limited potential buyers for a club that has 30k gates, premier league training facilities etc should tell you just how much of a financial mess MM left us in.

The best thing DC can do imo is continue working to a strict budget over the next couple of years, then either look to sell or bring on investors once the balance sheets are properly sorted.

[Will Hughes Hair]

24 minutes ago, YouRams said:

I think alot of people have quickly forgotten how close we were to going bust. The fact there was limited potential buyers for a club that has 30k gates, premier league training facilities etc should tell you just how much of a financial mess MM left us in.

The best thing DC can do imo is continue working to a strict budget over the next couple of years, then either look to sell or bring on investors once the balance sheets are properly sorted.

Can I be clear that I did not and do not want us to  spend beyond our means or budget.

I do question the strategy behind our spending this year. We are short on numbers, youth, pace and aggression.

The pursuit of Jordan Rhodes being a case in point. For the cost of his wages we could have brought in two or three younger players (including small fees).

[RoyMac5]

It's how you spend it.

[TheTinMan]

The striker situation is seriously depressing to be honest and we just seem to keep banging the same drum of looking at veterans who have fitness issues, are past their best and will be on silly wages still and they'll just move on once the contract ends and we're back to square one with rebuilding the team. Yes it worked for a season with Didzy but he's not that long out of the PL whereas Rhodes, Waghorn etc have been lower Championship players for years now. Nigel Clough barely had a pot to pee in but still unearthed some good signings from the lower leagues and Scotland. Do we even have a scouting team?