Poll: what do you think of it so far? (Warne's tenure)

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I could listen to his interviews all day, but, I worry about him long term.

Biggest alarm bell for me was the January window, he had gone on for ages about being excited about it and having players lined up and describing it as being like Christmas, to then get what we got...off the back of Osula going back too.

He openly said the recruitment team at Rotherham would pull their hair out at him as they would suggest good players and he would say no. He said he just doesn't like signing players.

Well, this season, it could well cost us a playoff place.

If he can't secure a playoff place with this current squad, in league 1, then I'm not so sure about him.

[TomTom92]

14 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I could listen to his interviews all day, but, I worry about him long term.

Biggest alarm bell for me was the January window, he had gone on for ages about being excited about it and having players lined up and describing it as being like Christmas, to then get what we got...off the back of Osula going back too.

He openly said the recruitment team at Rotherham would pull their hair out at him as they would suggest good players and he would say no. He said he just doesn't like signing players.

Well, this season, it could well cost us a playoff place.

If he can't secure a playoff place with this current squad, in league 1, then I'm not so sure about him.

Agreed, really hope January isn't a sign of things to come.

Love a manager who has great contacts and can pull a top signing from the wilderness.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

This is actually one of my biggest arguments against Warne (and likewise Pearson, Rowett and any other manager that needs to radically reshape the squad to achieve anything).  I think the only way we're ever going to have any kind of sustained success is by relying on the academy (and for a club like us, 'success' probably means getting into the Prem and staying there, I'm not talking about winning the league or anything).  We probably aren't ever going to be in a position where we can compete on money-terms, so we're going to have to develop our own players instead.  And that means taking the long-view about what kind of club you want to be, what kind of football you want to play etc.  There's no point having an academy full of technical midfielders and tricky wingers, if your first team manager is playing 352 and just run around a lot (or vice versa, of course).  You need the entire club pulling in the same direction, and that will never happen if you keep switching managerial styles, bearing in mind it takes like 5-10 years for a player to progress through the academy.

Mel Morris's "Derby Way" stuff was one of the few things he was right about, it's just a shame he seemed to have no clue how to make it actually happen.  We *should* be wanting to have half the team filled with academy players, and we should be actively trying to make that happen.

For clarity, I'm not saying a manager shouldn't be able to put his own spin on things, but you can't go lurching between Pearson, McClaren, Rowett, Lampard and expect any kind of consistency or long-term progress.  We should have some rough idea of how we want to play, and only appoint managers who are going to play something close to that style.  If we'd gone e.g. McClaren, Wassall, Lampard, Cocu, Rooney, Rosenior, we'd be in a much better position, as they all played roughly similar styles of football, in roughly similar formations.  And we wouldn't have had a guy paying £12m+ for Vydra and Anya, and then the next guy not really wanting to use either of them.

Good post & I entirely agree about the ethos needed at a club like ours to get sustained success. In an ideal scenario, we'd appoint the Director of Football first then align the Academy, recruitment department & coaching set up (including manager) to the same style. I wonder if David Clowes in hindsight would have made a different call on the manager given he had an well regarded interim in place & needed time to put in the infrastructure behind the scenes.

With regard to Warne having time (and to run the counter-argument), we should as a club have the resources post-business plan to fund the squad to get out of this division & that is probably the limit of our ambitions currently. Once we get back to the Championship, I would expect to see a more progressive approach as we clearly wouldn't be able to compete with relegated Premiership clubs on a financial basis.

[Oldben]

6 hours ago, Ambitious said:

If we don't finish in the play-off positions then he's had an absolute s****** in his first season in charge, let's be honest with ourselves here. He will have the opportunity at Derby next season with a full pre-season, allowing him to bring some of his own players into the club, so he will be able to properly put his own stamp on things. 

Next season he will have no excuses for not getting this team competing at the top end of the division and that will have to be the expectation. This season is a free hit, but missing out on the play-offs would be concerning considering how comfortable we were. Nine points in nine games for a Derby County side playing in the third division should be embarrassing to him as a coach and the players, honestly - essentially 20% of our season in relegation form AFTER going nearly going 20 unbeaten. 

While relying on the academy to develop players is a sound strategy, it's not a guarantee of success. Having a mix of academy graduates and experienced players can provide balance to the squad and help achieve success. While a consistent playing style is important, it's also important to be adaptable and able to adjust to different opponents and situations. Therefore, appointing warne who is implementimg a consistent style while also being flexible was essential. Warne has brought fresh ideas and perspectives to the club. The key is to ensure that the style and philosophy are aligned with the club's long-term vision. Ultimately, the success of a club depends on a variety of factors, including financial stability, strong leadership, a clear vision, and a willingness to adapt and evolve over time

[S8TY]

4 hours ago, Jourdan said:

If we don’t finish in the play-offs, we just go again next year.

Let go of the entitlement you are obviously carrying and show the league some respect. Promotion has to be earned, not given.

You make it sound like every club of our size and stature dominates the division and goes up at the first time of asking and there are countless examples of actually quite the opposite.

We were in the top six from November to April and we are only out of it on goal difference. We have been competing at the top end of the division, but we are not the only good side in the division and it is no disgrace to be where we are.

Ask the likes of Darren Moore, Kieran McKenna, Steven Schumacher, Michael Duff and Ian Evatt to compete under our restrictions and the response you’d get wouldn’t be a kind one.

Just because we have the best stadium, the best training facilities and the biggest crowds doesn’t mean we are in the best position to succeed.

We are competing against sides who yo-yo between the Championship (Barnsley and Peterborough) and sides who have spent several years coming together (Bolton, Plymouth, Wednesday and Ipswich).

We have no divine right to success in this league.

Let’s get this right …we are ONLY a league1 club because we are in league1 

we shouldn’t really be there if it wasn’t for the efl gangsters and we should not act like or be comfortable in league 1 

we are better than that and although what you say is true that we have to get out of it on merit …let’s not pretend we have to act like a league1 club 

 

[europia]

I would say things have gone pretty much as expected since PW arrived. If anything pushing for the play offs slightly exceeded expectations. He seems a decent manager at this level. 

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

Every time I listen to him I warm to him more and get more optimistic about us with him as manager, he says a lot of the right things, yet whenever I’ve watched us play apart from sort of mid December up until Wycombe away when we scored loads of goals for a little while, I struggle to see what we’re trying to do and who’s playing where and what Warne’s really looking for other than crossing at every opportunity when none of our ‘full backs’ are particularly good at crossing and we don’t have anyone who can really score headers. Even in that great period from mid December until February we had games like Bolton away and Cambridge where we barely created anything. I feel like every time we come up against a team as good as us or better we look petrified and have no way to deal with them. I think he needs a summer to put his stamp on this team though, though a big part of me has fears about us signing ‘Rotherham type players’, but maybe that’s just me being a snob and thinking we’re above that. Think we need to start next season well to keep fans on his side, he warrants being allowed to try and mould his own side.

 

[i-Ram]

Warne, and to a degree Barker, were footballers in the lower leagues (Div 1 & 2), who through hard work and high professional standards had pretty good careers. Fans liked them because they gave it their all, and were no doubt good characters. They bring the same mentality into their management roles, but they have the same limitations they had as footballers. I think it unlikely that they have the wherewithal to succeed at Championship level, nor be able to offer any significant technical insight into player development via the Academy structure.

[CBRammette]

After listening to the media love-in for Frank today at least under Paul we are properly DCFC again. 

[Jourdan]

8 hours ago, S8TY said:

Let’s get this right …we are ONLY a league1 club because we are in league1 

we shouldn’t really be there if it wasn’t for the efl gangsters and we should not act like or be comfortable in league 1 

we are better than that and although what you say is true that we have to get out of it on merit …let’s not pretend we have to act like a league1 club 

 

Yes, but that’s like saying Brighton and Brentford shouldn’t be comfortable with being in the Premier League because their natural level in terms of club size and stature is probably lower Championship/high League 1. Yet they are in the Premier League, they are flourishing, and deservedly so.

If we ‘shouldn’t really be here’ and we are ‘better than that’, then surely we have to prove it and show it? It’s all hot air if we finish 8th. Perhaps that’s the problem - the reality of where we are and how good we are in football terms doesn’t line up with our long-held perception.

Yes, in size, stature and history, we are a Premier League club in the making. But if you strip all of that back and you are left with what’s on the pitch, it’s a League One squad looking right at home at this level. That’s what counts.

Yes, we have plenty of players with Championship experience, but I don’t think many (if any) of them have proven themselves week in, week out to be too good for this level.

So do we have anything to be arrogant about?

[Jourdan]

12 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I wouldn’t say it’s a sense of entitlement, because I’ve seen how good this team is and how good they can be - this season. I’m not directing my frustration on the lack of quality within the squad, more so that as soon as the going got tough we have seemingly crumbled and the performance against Ipswich was as disjointed as I can remember seeing. 

Warne is a manager that I misjudged massively, in all honesty, because I assumed he would be a smart game manager and take a pragmatic approach. He does the complete opposite which is great when you’re winning, but just comes across as naive when you aren’t.

If we had been lower midtable and now looking to be in the playoffs come the end of the season, the view would be different (of course). However, from where we’ve been and how we’ve performed this season, anything other than a playoff finish would mean we’ve bottled it based on a run of games that has seen the likes of Burton and Cheltenham massively out perform us. Largely, in my opinion, not due to the quality of the team but the game management of the coaching staff. We absolutely battered Peterborough, the players on our team absolutely were superior footballers in every sense, yet we lacked any craft on the edge of the box and got caught with men over after our own corner to go 1-0 down.

Everyone will have their own standard and expectation, mine is built on what I’ve seen from us this season and what I’ve seen of the league this season. If I was being more honest with myself then I honestly have no idea how any decent manager could struggle to get this Derby team into the playoffs, honestly. I would be disappointed with anything other than a top 6 finish and really it would need to be looked at as to why we allowed a very comfortable position slip.

Your suggestion is that we have a quality squad being mismanaged, but are you really sure about that? Are you perhaps overrating the quality of our players?

I don’t think we have an outstanding team for the division, personally. I think we have a good team that can produce outstanding moments. That has been evident from day one.

We have won 4 out of 9 under Rosenior and 14 out of 30 under Warne. That suggests it’s a good, competitive team but very much in the top 6 to top 10 bracket. When I look at the make up of the squad, I don’t sense that it’s a top 2 squad performing at a top 10 level.

How many of our players have actually consistently performed at a level where you would say ‘X is too good for this league’? Disappointingly the only player who looks a different class is McGoldrick, to be perfectly honest.

Looking at the overall squad, it feels like a League One squad, it does not feel like a Championship squad playing below its level. We’ve won less than half of our games, after all. We talk about this squad’s quality, but are they actually just living off their reputations and relative big name status for this division?

Across the season, two of our other best and most consistent players have been Wildsmith and Mendez Laing. Remember these two weren’t wanted by Sheffield Wednesday because they wanted to push on and get back into the Championship. Quite telling now, isn’t it?

[Jourdan]

14 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

I don’t disagree with Ambitious. Whilst I never felt that we’d get close to autos once we were 7/8 points clear of 7th place I said to my pals that only relegation form would see us miss out on top 6. 
 

Do we trust a manager currently managing us through relegation form to start next season? For me it’s a tough decision Clowes will have to make. His last 10 matches have been awful and he needs to change our fortunes before the end of the season. I don’t mean this in an entitled way but in a serious way. Look at how often relegated teams struggle the following season because they can’t shake off the habit of losing. We are currently developing that relegation form/habit of losing. Without changing around 60% of the squad (which will have its own drawbacks in terms of hitting the ground running) we’ll be left with a squad used to losing. 

We have lost less than 30% of our league games this season and you are worried about a losing culture being developed?

We’re on a bad run. All teams experience them. Let’s not overblow it. When we were 15 games unbeaten, we knew it had to end at some point. This is no different.

The summer will be an almost complete reset and so much will change that the possibility of us suffering a hangover from this season is almost slim to none.

Please stop with the scaremongering, especially as we can still go on a winning run and we still have a shot at a Wembley promotion and a very successful end to the season. 

Now if we were to lose another 4-5 between now and May, then this kind of thinking would hold a lot more weight. But what is the likelihood of that?

[CBRammette]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

We have lost less than 30% of our league games this season and you are worried about a losing culture being developed?

We’re on a bad run. All teams experience them. Let’s not overblow it. When we were 15 games unbeaten, we knew it had to end at some point. This is no different.

The summer will be an almost complete reset and so much will change that the possibility of us suffering a hangover from this season is almost slim to none.

Please stop with the scaremongering, especially as we can still go on a winning run and we still have a shot at a Wembley promotion and a very successful end to the season. 

Now if we were to lose another 4-5 between now and May, then this kind of thinking would hold a lot more weight. But what is the likelihood of that?

Do you work nights, have a young child, care for someone, have insomnia or are a party animal? Sorry that sounds really nosey but they are very lucid posts for the time posted - so probably not the last option bearing in mind some early hours posts we get!

[May Contain Nuts]

90% of posters:

10% of posters:

Edited April 7, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[i-Ram]

16 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

90% of posters:

10% of posters:

I like this more because of the perfect layout of your presentation. Kevin Hector/10.

[Ram-Alf]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Yes, but that’s like saying Brighton and Brentford shouldn’t be comfortable with being in the Premier League because their natural level in terms of club size and stature is probably lower Championship/high League 1. Yet they are in the Premier League, they are flourishing, and deservedly so.

 

One thing I'd stake my season ticket on, If both the clubs above were in league1 their attendances would plummet, Ours on the other hand have held or even increased.

Derby is a football town and we have support from far a field, The clubs above would lose those that travel from far a field to the nearest EPL club.

We're an EPL club in league1 clothing, Circumstances have put us where we are, Managers, Players and supporters will get us back...one day 👍

[Jourdan]

90% of posters when we win today:

10% of posters:

 

[duncanjwitham]

I think part of the issue with these “one of the best squads in the league, oh no it’s not…” type arguments, is that our first XI probably is top 3 or 4 (barring obvious issues at right back), but there’s very little beyond that. So we’re capable of putting out a top team, but it can start to fall away very quickly if absences begin to pile up, or performance levels begin to drop in those first team players.

And obviously in cases like that, the onus is on the manager to find a way of keeping that XI on the pitch as much as possible, and playing at as a high level as possible…

[Jourdan]

2 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Do you work nights, have a young child, care for someone, have insomnia or are a party animal? Sorry that sounds really nosey but they are very lucid posts for the time posted - so probably not the last option bearing in mind some early hours posts we get!

Being on holiday means my sleep patterns become lawless.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Your suggestion is that we have a quality squad being mismanaged, but are you really sure about that? Are you perhaps overrating the quality of our players?

I don’t think we have an outstanding team for the division, personally. I think we have a good team that can produce outstanding moments. That has been evident from day one.

We have won 4 out of 9 under Rosenior and 14 out of 30 under Warne. That suggests it’s a good, competitive team but very much in the top 6 to top 10 bracket. When I look at the make up of the squad, I don’t sense that it’s a top 2 squad performing at a top 10 level.

How many of our players have actually consistently performed at a level where you would say ‘X is too good for this league’? Disappointingly the only player who looks a different class is McGoldrick, to be perfectly honest.

Looking at the overall squad, it feels like a League One squad, it does not feel like a Championship squad playing below its level. We’ve won less than half of our games, after all. We talk about this squad’s quality, but are they actually just living off their reputations and relative big name status for this division?

Across the season, two of our other best and most consistent players have been Wildsmith and Mendez Laing. Remember these two weren’t wanted by Sheffield Wednesday because they wanted to push on and get back into the Championship. Quite telling now, isn’t it?

Mismanaged - Lack of rotation in the squad, asking 30+ year old players to go all out of 90 minutes on a regular basis, playing midfielders at full back, playing a high line with a slow defence, trying to shoe horn players into his favoured 532 formation.

Squad ability - Many Championship clubs were after Smith, Hourihane and McGoldrick in the summer. Eevery summer, Knight, Bird and Sibley are linked with moves to Championship clubs. Cashin will be in high demand this summer. Wildsmith's performances would mean that Championship clubs would snap your hands off for him if he was out of contract. Mendez-Laing has one of the highest goal contributions from all wingers in the league.

Squad overall - Again, poor recruitment in January has led to the lack in depth. Players were out there and Warne either failed to convince them to come, or opted not to get them in. It was clear to everyone that we had to get a CF in, especially once Osula returned to Sheff Utd. Some were even calling for a signing before his departure. Warne's the man ultimately responsible for building the squad, and squad depth is a part of that regardless of the restrictions.

Sheff Weds - Circumstances led to Wildsmith not getting a chance to establish himself as first choice. It's easier to drop your academy graduate than an experienced player on more money. They also play with wing backs. Our games this season will show you than Mendez-Laing is not a wingback, nor does he want to play there.