Poll: what do you think of it so far? (Warne's tenure)

[IslandExile]

Yeah, yeah, yeah we're glad to still have a club.

Yeah, yeah, yeah the squad was cobbled together in extremely difficult circumstances.

Yeah, yeah, yeah Warne has only had the one transfer window with no finances available.

Yeah, yeah, yeah he's a funny man who wears a bobble hat.

BUT...

He's been in charge now for long enough for us to get an idea of how he likes to play.

We can judge whether he's getting the best out of the players available to him.

Tactics? Team selection? Substitutions?

There are reports from reliable persons that he's not attending academy games. I find that disconcerting given that the 4 year contract was intended to let him build the ethos of the whole club, not just the first team.

So, how do you feel it's going so far?

If you don't like polls, simply move on, go and do something else. Is Love island on the TV?

Edited April 4, 2023 by IslandExile

[Blondest Goat]

Don't think he has done a particularly good job with what we've got available. There is little attempt to play the type of football that suits the players.  That said I fully expect him to get players in that are more suited to his style and to have us performing much more consistently.  How far he can take us is another question but I'd be confident he can get us out of League one once he's been able to bring some players in.

[RoyMac5]

Started well but has done more than run out of steam. Odd tactics and substitutions making me question where we're heading and how. Time will of course tell, and just like with Rowett if we go up he's fab! 😄

[Bris Vegas]

I like Warne. Find him down to earth, easy to listen to, passionate, clearly an intelligent guy. 

But I’m a bit disappointed with the football we play under him.

I may be alone in this.

But I preferred Rosenior. We may still have lost 0-2 to Ipswich, but we probably would have done so with a greater outlook as we dominate the ball, create more chances, give the younger players more game time.

When we lose under Warne it’s just depressing. The football is generally crap and we look like we have no real identity.

When we lost under Rosenior (especially at Charlton) we still looked a good side. 

I thought we were looking good under Warne but the more you analyze it, you realize our amazing run was down to playing crap teams more than anything Warne actually did.

Under Rosenior we picked up two points from Lincoln, Shrews and Fleetwood away. Horrible results. Yet in the reverse fixtures at home under Warne, we still only picked up two points and arguably played worse.

[Guest]

I'm not sure there's much difference between options 2 and 3!

I'll take option 3 marginally ahead of option 2, but I think a better bridge between "outstanding; couldn't be better" and "could be better but we have to give him more time" would be something like "as per expectations; on course for promotion either this season or next"

I haven't clicked "submit" yet but I'd be amazed if anyone could choose option 1!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

When we lose under Warne it’s just depressing. The football is generally crap and we look like we have no real identity.

When we lost under Rosenior (especially at Charlton) we still looked a good side. 

 

Under Rosenior we picked up two points from Lincoln, Shrews and Fleetwood away. Horrible results. Yet in the reverse fixtures at home under Warne, we still only picked up two points and arguably played worse.

You've got me thinking now: the utter frustration of a defeat/draw under Rosenior (like the Charlton one or Fleetwood away) where we should have won easily, versus the annoyance of a defeat under Warne where we were just rubbish anyway... like Fleetwood at home! I think in some ways I can come to terms with being rubbish more easily than with being robbed!

Good last point - although I think away to Lincoln was one of the worst performances of the season (not the worst any more, mind). Worst match under Rosenior, followed immediately by his best (if I remember rightly) - Wycombe at home.

[Ram-Alf]

 

[LeedsCityRam]

He's been in charge of 30 league games now & taken as a whole, I've found his reign to be disappointing.

The only reason we're in the playoff conversation at all is because we've bullied the minnows of this division & it was predominantly the lesser teams we played during the long unbeaten run. During his first 19 league matches, the average position of the teams we played was 15th & we gained 39 points. In our past 11 matches, the average position of the teams we've played has been 10th & we've captured a mere 11 points. 

Some are dismissive of the stats but the imbalance of results is stark;

It is undeniably true that the squad is not big & that it is not well balanced. However it is equally true that we have some fantastic players for this division that would walk into most sides at this level. The likes of McGoldrick, Hourihane, Bird, Knight, Cashin, Wildsmith, Mendez-Laing, Barkhuizen & Wildsmith are quality players for League One - the question then is whether Warne has utilised them to the best of their abilities.

The matter of playing style is down to personal taste - its clear some on this forum relish direct, full throttle football & that's fine. For some others (myself included), its crude, predictable & drags you down to the level of less talented players. I believe Warne's Derby have fallen into that trap too often when the opposition have pressed us & the sheer energy needed to play his style has exhausted some of our older players. I also don't feel it has capitalised on the advantage in quality we have over most of this division. The drop in energy levels has been compounded by his reluctance to rotate players & a lack of imagination 'in changing approach when its been clear banging the ball up the park & chasing blindly has not been yielding results. In summary, I think Warne lacks pragmatism & tactical flexibility and does at times appear to be a glorified fitness coach with excellent man management skills. Its been noticeable how many times opposition managers have changed their set up at half-time & beaten Warne to the points.

I get the sense the majority want Warne to have the chance to build his own squad & believe that will yield success in the long term. I hope they're right but I'm concerned that his promotions with Rotherham were based on having a strong squad for League One (all 3 promotions directly followed a relegation) & that building his squad from scratch will take a lot longer given the current squad profile & the continued restrictions of the business plan.

Edited April 4, 2023 by LeedsCityRam

[DiggerB]

18 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

building his squad from scratch will take a lot longer given the current squad profile & the continued restrictions of the business plan.

The squad needs some fairly hefty surgery to be fair. I reckon we’ve at least another 1-2 seasons in this league. Competitive in the top 6 over a full season next year with potential for promotion through the play-offs. If not full guns for autos in 24/25. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t relish watching more of this standard of football and officialdom but we are where we are, despite what some might wish for/think we are entitled to.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, DiggerB said:

The squad needs some fairly hefty surgery to be fair. I reckon we’ve at least another 1-2 seasons in this league. Competitive in the top 6 over a full season next year with potential for promotion through the play-offs. If not full guns for autos in 24/25. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t relish watching more of this standard of football and officialdom but we are where we are, despite what some might wish for/think we are entitled to.

Really? Is it down to the squad, who I think have showed how well they can play, or the manager who seems quite rigid?

[1of4]

Could our results have been any better or any worse under another manager, playing different formations and tactics than those we have played under Warne?

Unless someone possesses a reliable crystal ball, the answer to that question is pure conjecture.

Maybe the question we should be asking ourselves is the club in a better or worse position than we thought, hoped it would be when the team lined at the start of the season. The answer to that question is probably a better indication to how we believe Warne is performing as our manager.

I can't find it but at the beginning of the season, I'm sure there was a poll asking where we thought we would finish the season.

So comparing that poll to where we actually finish, may give a better indication to how well the manager has done. Than a poll taken when we are going through a poor run of games.

Wonder what the results of poll taken in mid January would have looked like?

So thankyou for the invite but I'll gracefully decine to participate in a meaningless poll.

[May Contain Nuts]

Decent to good job if you focus on the circumstances and aren't really interested in further analysis. The wins against the crap teams aren't necessarily a given.

just about meeting expectations (for better or worse depending on which expectations!) but has a LOT left to do to prove he isn't a one trick pony or one of those managers who can only be successful at one club.

As well as he talks and as refreshing as it is not to hear all the usual manager clichés, once you've heard one long interview with him you've heard them all really.

We started the season 2 weeks behind everyone else fitness wise. We started to look utterly shagged 2 months before it finishes, I don't know if that alone says something, but it might.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Ghost of Clough]

37 minutes ago, DiggerB said:

The squad needs some fairly hefty surgery to be fair. I reckon we’ve at least another 1-2 seasons in this league. Competitive in the top 6 over a full season next year with potential for promotion through the play-offs. If not full guns for autos in 24/25. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t relish watching more of this standard of football and officialdom but we are where we are, despite what some might wish for/think we are entitled to.

It only needs major surgery because of the consequences of having Warne as manager.

He desires a 3 at the back. This means 4 new wing backs, 2 new CFs, 2 new CBs, a GK. That's before any current players leave.

In the event of failing to get promoted, we will lose a number of our best and most promising players.

In total, we'll be looking at 13 new signings. GK, 3 CBs, 4 WBs, 3 CMs, 2 CFs.

[IslandExile]

13 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Could our results have been any better or any worse under another manager, playing different formations and tactics than those we have played under Warne?

Unless someone possesses a reliable crystal ball, the answer to that question is pure conjecture.

Maybe the question we should be asking ourselves is the club in a better or worse position than we thought, hoped it would be when the team lined at the start of the season. The answer to that question is probably a better indication to how we believe Warne is performing as our manager.

I can't find it but at the beginning of the season, I'm sure there was a poll asking where we thought we would finish the season.

So comparing that poll to where we actually finish, may give a better indication to how well the manager has done. Than a poll taken when we are going through a poor run of games.

Wonder what the results of poll taken in mid January would have looked like?

So thankyou for the invite but I'll gracefully decine to participate in a meaningless poll.

So your only measure for judging Warne is league position versus the preseason expectation?

Not the style of football, use of the academy, improvement in individual players and so on?

[May Contain Nuts]

Pre season expectation was based on myths about the way most teams play in this league and before we'd seen just how poor the bottom half of the league can be.

You really can't use pre-season expectations to judge how Warne has done.

It was also based on the understanding that we had a rookie manager learning his trade and the ups and downs that would bring, not based on us having a manager with proven success in this league.

Any measurement of Warne that's based in "where would we be with Rosenior" isn't really valid either.

 

[oodledoodle]

21 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It only needs major surgery because of the consequences of having Warne as manager.

He desires a 3 at the back. This means 4 new wing backs, 2 new CFs, 2 new CBs, a GK. That's before any current players leave.

In the event of failing to get promoted, we will lose a number of our best and most promising players.

In total, we'll be looking at 13 new signings. GK, 3 CBs, 4 WBs, 3 CMs, 2 CFs.

Totally agree with that. Compare Warne coming in to Steve Mac round one. Looked at the team we had, worked out how to get the best of it. Warne might be better in the long run if he gets his own players in, but very few managers get that luxury these days. He might be relying on having as long as he did at Rotherham, and some of us won't be that patient.

[i-Ram]

I have seen nothing to suggest he is anything more than a ‘League 1’ specialist, with a philosophy of direct football, played by athletic lumps. We may as well not have an Academy as I think he has little interest in developing young players through the age ranges. 

[Tyler Durden]

Am sure the consensus at the start of the season through another poll was a Top 6 finish would be an acceptable outcome for the season. Happy to be corrected on that point though if my memory doesn't serve me correctly.

So on that basis we are still very much placed to achieve what was deemed to be acceptable outcome. 

Doesn't that then answer the question? And removes the necessity for any other polls. 

[May Contain Nuts]

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think he has little interest in developing young players through the age ranges. 

I don't get that though, everything about his 'man of the people'  character (and his emphasis on building personal relationships)  says that it should be something he would be good at if given the opportunity? 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[1of4]

14 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

So your only measure for judging Warne is league position versus the preseason expectation?

Not the style of football, use of the academy, improvement in individual players and so on?

Yep. Exactly the same criteria I would have used, for Rosenior or any other manager that had been in charge of us.