Poll: what do you think of it so far? (Warne's tenure)

[MadAmster]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Keep seeing this, how unbalanced? Only missing a RFB.

Not so much in position but, as PW has often said, the squad misses balance. With the exception of a keeper, the players are either 30+ or U22. It's the age group in between that usually is the "glue" in a squad.

[Jourdan]

I am not sure what this thread was really meant to achieve.

It strikes me as poorly timed and entirely designed to galvanise a certain section of the fanbase and sustain anti-Warne sentiment from self-appointed Warne sceptics.

We’re in the middle of a run where we have lost six in 12 and five in our last eight and we’ve dropped from 4th to 7th.

That sounds a really sensible time to give fair and genuine appraisals, doesn’t it?

Not in seven games’ time when the season is finished and we’ll know our fate, of course.

If it was May and we had finished 7th or 8th, take aim. But we still have seven games to go (potentially 10) and can still have a successful end to the season, why not let things play out?

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I am not sure what this thread was really meant to achieve.

It strikes me as poorly timed and entirely designed to galvanise a certain section of the fanbase and sustain anti-Warne sentiment from self-appointed Warne sceptics.

We’re in the middle of a run where we have lost six in 12 and five in our last eight and we’ve dropped from 4th to 7th.

That sounds a really sensible time to give fair and genuine appraisals, doesn’t it?

Not in seven games’ time when the season is finished and we’ll know our fate, of course.

If it was May and we had finished 7th or 8th, take aim. But we still have seven games to go (potentially 10) and can still have a successful end to the season, why not let things play out?

Lol. Would it help if you imagined it said another managers name? 

Perhaps in 7 games time it's too late to wonder what needs changing? You'd hope we're only doing what Warne is doing and assessing how things are going.

[Rev]

Once a poll such as this goes up, a manager is on borrowed time. 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, Rev said:

Once a poll such as this goes up, a manager is on borrowed time. 

 

Not in this case Rev….

[IslandExile]

52 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I am not sure what this thread was really meant to achieve.

It strikes me as poorly timed and entirely designed to galvanise a certain section of the fanbase and sustain anti-Warne sentiment from self-appointed Warne sceptics.

We’re in the middle of a run where we have lost six in 12 and five in our last eight and we’ve dropped from 4th to 7th.

That sounds a really sensible time to give fair and genuine appraisals, doesn’t it?

Not in seven games’ time when the season is finished and we’ll know our fate, of course.

If it was May and we had finished 7th or 8th, take aim. But we still have seven games to go (potentially 10) and can still have a successful end to the season, why not let things play out?

As the Author of the poll, I can tell you what triggered me to post were the comments that I was seeing on the Academy Thread.

Every team hits dodgy patches of form - look at Manchester City and Liverpool. In our case, we narrowly escaped extinction. I think we only had five contracted players when Clowes and Rosenior managed to scrape together a squad, with no transfer fees and under spending constraints for wages, for this season. Warne was then brought in as manager - inheriting players not necessarily suited to his preferred style of play - and he has had only one transfer window BUT no money to spend. As I understand it, even selling players he would not be allowed to buy.

So, very definitely,  I can assure you that I am not trying to sustain any Anti-Warne sentiment on the basis of the difficult situation Warne has had to contend with or a - very understandable - dip in form. No, it's not that at all.

My concern is the bigger picture. The development, encouragement and fostering of the academy. The overall tactics and style of play if and when we get out of League One. That's what concerns me. It concerns me now as it did when he was appointed - and people warned then about tactics and non-use of the academy.

It's not just about where we finish in League One this season. Warne was brought in on a four year contract to build the whole club, not just to get us out of this division.

I hope that clarifies.

As an aside though: it's great that we have finally settled on a manager that you @Jourdan want to get behind 😉

Edited April 5, 2023 by IslandExile
added about warnings at time of appointment

[Jourdan]

6 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

As the Author of the poll, I can tell you what triggered me to post were the comments that I was seeing on the Academy Thread.

Every team hits dodgy patches of form - look at Manchester City and Liverpool. In our case, we narrowly escaped extinction. I think we only had five contracted players when Clowes and Rosenior managed to scrape together a squad, with no transfer fees and under spending constraints for wages, for this season. Warne was then brought in as manager - inheriting players not necessarily suited to his preferred style of play - and he has had only one transfer window BUT no money to spend. As I understand it, even selling players he would not be allowed to buy.

So, very definitely,  I can assure you that I am not trying to sustain any Anti-Warne sentiment on the basis of the difficult situation Warne has had to contend with or a - very understandable - dip in form. No, it's not that at all.

My concern is the bigger picture. The development, encouragement and fostering of the academy. The overall tactics and style of play if and when we get out of League One. That's what concerns me. It concerns me now as it did when he was appointed - and people warned then about tactics and non-use of the academy.

It's not just about where we finish in League One this season. Warne was brought in on a four year contract to build the whole club, not just to get us out of this division.

I hope that clarifies.

As an aside though: it's great that we have finally settled on a manager that you @Jourdan want to get behind 😉

Warne has been in the job for seven months. The club is still rebuilding after being on the brink less than a year ago.

He hasn’t had a pre-season or a summer window - the time you would expect a manager to sit down and assess the direction the club is going in and to analyse the bigger picture.

We need a settled club and a stable first team first and foremost. He’s contending with a lot to get the first team looking competitive.

Expecting him to focus on and integrate the Academy into his thinking and expecting him to have a uniform approach and style of play seems ten steps ahead of where we are. Once again this summer, we will have work to do to put together a competitive first team.

You surely focus on the Academy and the bigger picture from a position of strength and stability?

[FindernRam]

June last year expectation was terribly low even if we actually cobbled together a team. Now we are pushing for play offs. To me that's outstanding. Not just him of course but he sets the tone for the club!

[IslandExile]

16 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Warne has been in the job for seven months. The club is still rebuilding after being on the brink less than a year ago.

.....

You surely focus on the Academy and the bigger picture from a position of strength and stability?

Yeah, I guess there are many ways to "skin a cat". Maybe he is following the approach as you see it. I would advocate a more holistic approach - and drive change throughout the club, threads  in parallel - but maybe he doesn't think that's possible.

His predecessors, of which I know you had less faith, Cocu, Rooney and Rosenior, had the academy teams play in the same manner and formation as the first team so that it prepared the youngsters. I guess it could be argued that those managers had no choice but to make use of the academy - and it is certainly  fair to say the academy had a better crop of players to choose from than is available now - alas, thanks to Administration etc.

So, we will have to see how things pan out in the future.

I do think it's reasonable though to discuss whether we're happy with progress so far. Whether the signs are good. If you think it's still too early to judge, does that mean we shouldn't have even discussed Warne's merits at the time of the appointment? Of course not.

This is a forum, a discussion board, that's all we're doing.

[DavesaRam]

I wasn't too worried when Rosenior was shown the door, although it seemed in some ways a harsh thing to do. However, although our football was easy on the eye, and we were in a good league position, on the whole we did seem rather toothless, with several matches producing no shots on target at all. Also we had been sussed - Rosenior was somewhat of a one-trick pony himself, and all the opposition had to do was press us hard and play a high line, then wait for the mistake and score from it. We saw this match after match, with no answer. Our away form was awful as well.

Come the Warne, and I was immediately taken with the way in which the team wanted to get the ball and move it quickly up the pitch - a massive boost after the incessant snooze-fests of the previous management style. Somehow we simply had more bite under Warne, and maybe it took teams a while to come to terms with us being different to what everybody had thought e were like.

Sadly we have now become predictable under Paul Warne, who has turned out to only have one trick in his stable, despite talking a good talk about adapting to what we have. It sounded great, but despite having a bit of a look, he has pretty much reneged on that apparent bit of promise. We benefitted early on by the much improved fitness of the players, with several matches being won or drawn with late goals, simply because we could keep going longer than the opposition.

Our good run coincided with us playing to our strengths, embracing a longer-ball style of play as well. But coupled with injuries to Max Bird, and to a lesser degree Jason Knight, we have shifted much more to a long ball  style. It isn't hoof-ball, just that when we get the ball, our first thought seems to be play the ball over the top and into the channels, and then whack a cross in. Unfortunately when we do try to play the ball through the middle we seem to have forgotten that the players feet are actually on or near the ground, so we inevitably play the ball "up and over", which gives our midfielders little hope of receiving the ball because they are not the beefcakes needed for that type of aerial football. So we have become disjointed

Most of us on this forum have cottoned on to the fact that our "flat out till you gass out" style has ripped the stamina out of the older players, and maybe is threatening bun out of the younger kids, exacerbated by the small squad size not allowing true rotation to keep the players fresh. But other teams have also "cottoned on" to the high energy nature of our play, typified by the match against Peterborough. It seemed that their tactical change left us standing cold. I am not so sure that it was a tactical "change", but simply a continuation of the pre-planned tactics - Play a holding, absorbing game  first half knowing we would hit them at a hundred miles an hour. Then in the second half, when we had blown ourselves out, bring on the quicker players in midfield and simply run straight through us. Although Warne didn't appear to try and address the change, maybe there was little he could do because all he had got were players who were drained from the exertions of the season's flat-outedness.

And then we have Warne's team selections and substitutions. He spoke early on about keeping the shirt of you play well, but it seemed the only player to actually keep his shirt regularly was Hourihane, for which he didn't even have to play well. He has had a good spell since coming back from injury, but that seems to have waned again. Compare that with Sibley - yes he got a bit of a run at right back, but that was because there was no one else available apart from Roberts, who had done OK there.  In his first start in his best position he ripped the opposition a new one and bagged a couple of goals. HE did keep his shirt, but had to wear it off the pitch - I don't even think he made it onto the bench! AND WE HAVEN'T SCORED A GOAL SINCE THEN! Well we would have done if the EFL had sent a referee to the last match, but that's another story! All he has had since then are a couple of cameos with 20 minutes to go, and with the game already gone. WE do tend to do this to our game changers, don't we?

Or think of White - recently he played the advanced midfielder role and had a great game, and he too was rewarded by being allowed to wear his shirt on the bench! And is Warne's tendency towards like-for like substitutions a sign of lack of squad depth, or only having one pony in the stable?

It may sound crazy, but despite the frustration, I have enjoyed Warne's tenure so far, and really think he needs a load more time, and the chance to bring in his own players. Then the expectation that he will produce the results we need and get us promoted. I am not worried by his record at Rotherham of promotion then relegation, simply because once promoted he didn't have the funds for building a championship side. He should get that at Derby. MY main concern is whether or not he can  operate outside of his preferred "long into the channels" style.

Only time will tell!

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

As the Author of the poll, I can tell you what triggered me to post were the comments that I was seeing on the Academy Thread.

Every team hits dodgy patches of form - look at Manchester City and Liverpool. In our case, we narrowly escaped extinction. I think we only had five contracted players when Clowes and Rosenior managed to scrape together a squad, with no transfer fees and under spending constraints for wages, for this season. Warne was then brought in as manager - inheriting players not necessarily suited to his preferred style of play - and he has had only one transfer window BUT no money to spend. As I understand it, even selling players he would not be allowed to buy.

So, very definitely,  I can assure you that I am not trying to sustain any Anti-Warne sentiment on the basis of the difficult situation Warne has had to contend with or a - very understandable - dip in form. No, it's not that at all.

My concern is the bigger picture. The development, encouragement and fostering of the academy. The overall tactics and style of play if and when we get out of League One. That's what concerns me. It concerns me now as it did when he was appointed - and people warned then about tactics and non-use of the academy.

It's not just about where we finish in League One this season. Warne was brought in on a four year contract to build the whole club, not just to get us out of this division.

I hope that clarifies.

As an aside though: it's great that we have finally settled on a manager that you @Jourdan want to get behind 😉

I think it’s reasonable to be concerned about the club going forward particularly as regards “ The Derby Way”

Is Warnes style of play what Derby fans want. 
Judging by the singing by away fans that “We have the Division 1 Guadiola “ I guess it is. 
I have concerns about style of play and tactics going forward but I’m willing to judge him later rather than sooner. 

[Addingham Ram]

17 hours ago, On the Ram Page said:

Spot on but would also add Aggression (not dirty arts!) e.g. midfield players who can tackle, win the ball and have some pace 

What, all round midfielders like we had in the old days, before the modern trend of players having to be a defensive midfielder, a central midfielder, or an attacking midfielder?

I think that's part of the problem.

The further down the Football pyramid you go, the more the game resembles footy from the 90s. Yet we have players schooled in the modern way.

Solve the midfield, and I think even with the rest of the current squad, we'd be a decent force to be reckoned with.

[Papahet]

The last minute goal at Port Vale I genuinely believed we'd push towards the top two and Warne had played a masterstroke in the Dobbin and Springett changes.

We just don't seem to to be able to get to that level again, despite a fully fit squad. Confidence? Tiredness? Or just bad luck with decisions? Probably all three.

IMO Springett and White aren't better than what we had already here, simply here to make up the numbers it seems.

January for me was the turning point and I believe (IMO) if we had someone like Mcclaren he'd have pulled out a top loanee from one of his many contacts.

Flint would've been a top signing had he not gone to Wednesday.

The summer is massive, I seem to be saying this year after year mind.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Papahet

[cj9a408]

I'm more than happy with what i have seen so far and its a proven formula with the right players to eject out of League One.

My only frustration is in an attempt to get the ball forward quickly (Warne's ethos all over) at times we have lost the game management of keeping the ball when we need to, something that Ipswich, Plymouth, Wednesday are all very capable of.

Don't get me wrong, we have the third or forth highest possession in the league.   But imo we have lost points this season in scenarios where slowing it down just for 5/10 mins when the opposition are in the ascendancy is exactly what was needed and we haven't learnt from it. 

[angieram]

@DavesaRam, here is Rosenior's full match record with result, shots and shots on target.

Oxford W 1-0   13-4

Charlton  L 1-0   13-7

Mansfield W 2-1   13-8

Barnsley W 2-1   7-2

Shrewsbury D 0-0   13-3

Fleetwood D 0-0   27-9

WBA W 1-0   19-6

Peterborough L 2-1   12-3

Grimsby W 3-1   17-5

Plymouth L 2-3   12-3

Lincoln L 2-0   10-5

Wycombe W 2-1   26-12

I can't see any games with no shots on target, and total shots is a lot better generally than we're seeing at the moment. And he didn't have McGoldrick for some of those games  either.

I don't mind people saying they didn't like Rosenior's style of play but please check out your facts before you say "with several matches producing no shots on target at all".

My stats from DCFC website, btw.

 

 

[Rich3478]

Not against him, just worry we’ll have a summer window with hands tied. Then for another six months hear how he still needs to build his own squad.

I’m not a big fan of how warne plays football, but I do think it’s better to watch away. Under Rooney and rosenior was hard to watch us have all the ball and never look like scoring.

generally enjoyed going at home too, until the last month. 
 

think my main concern is how at the first sign of difficulty we seem to have no plan at all, four changes every game. Two up front, one up front, four at the back, five at the back. Seems very hopeful at the minute. Get the sense warne has no idea of his best team or formation. Which is a concern after this long in the role.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

I wasn't too worried when Rosenior was shown the door, although it seemed in some ways a harsh thing to do. However, although our football was easy on the eye, and we were in a good league position, on the whole we did seem rather toothless, with several matches producing no shots on target at all. Also we had been sussed - Rosenior was somewhat of a one-trick pony himself, and all the opposition had to do was press us hard and play a high line, then wait for the mistake and score from it. We saw this match after match, with no answer. Our away form was awful as well.

Come the Warne, and I was immediately taken with the way in which the team wanted to get the ball and move it quickly up the pitch - a massive boost after the incessant snooze-fests of the previous management style. Somehow we simply had more bite under Warne, and maybe it took teams a while to come to terms with us being different to what everybody had thought e were like.

Sadly we have now become predictable under Paul Warne, who has turned out to only have one trick in his stable, despite talking a good talk about adapting to what we have. It sounded great, but despite having a bit of a look, he has pretty much reneged on that apparent bit of promise. We benefitted early on by the much improved fitness of the players, with several matches being won or drawn with late goals, simply because we could keep going longer than the opposition.

Our good run coincided with us playing to our strengths, embracing a longer-ball style of play as well. But coupled with injuries to Max Bird, and to a lesser degree Jason Knight, we have shifted much more to a long ball  style. It isn't hoof-ball, just that when we get the ball, our first thought seems to be play the ball over the top and into the channels, and then whack a cross in. Unfortunately when we do try to play the ball through the middle we seem to have forgotten that the players feet are actually on or near the ground, so we inevitably play the ball "up and over", which gives our midfielders little hope of receiving the ball because they are not the beefcakes needed for that type of aerial football. So we have become disjointed

Most of us on this forum have cottoned on to the fact that our "flat out till you gass out" style has ripped the stamina out of the older players, and maybe is threatening bun out of the younger kids, exacerbated by the small squad size not allowing true rotation to keep the players fresh. But other teams have also "cottoned on" to the high energy nature of our play, typified by the match against Peterborough. It seemed that their tactical change left us standing cold. I am not so sure that it was a tactical "change", but simply a continuation of the pre-planned tactics - Play a holding, absorbing game  first half knowing we would hit them at a hundred miles an hour. Then in the second half, when we had blown ourselves out, bring on the quicker players in midfield and simply run straight through us. Although Warne didn't appear to try and address the change, maybe there was little he could do because all he had got were players who were drained from the exertions of the season's flat-outedness.

And then we have Warne's team selections and substitutions. He spoke early on about keeping the shirt of you play well, but it seemed the only player to actually keep his shirt regularly was Hourihane, for which he didn't even have to play well. He has had a good spell since coming back from injury, but that seems to have waned again. Compare that with Sibley - yes he got a bit of a run at right back, but that was because there was no one else available apart from Roberts, who had done OK there.  In his first start in his best position he ripped the opposition a new one and bagged a couple of goals. HE did keep his shirt, but had to wear it off the pitch - I don't even think he made it onto the bench! AND WE HAVEN'T SCORED A GOAL SINCE THEN! Well we would have done if the EFL had sent a referee to the last match, but that's another story! All he has had since then are a couple of cameos with 20 minutes to go, and with the game already gone. WE do tend to do this to our game changers, don't we?

Or think of White - recently he played the advanced midfielder role and had a great game, and he too was rewarded by being allowed to wear his shirt on the bench! And is Warne's tendency towards like-for like substitutions a sign of lack of squad depth, or only having one pony in the stable?

It may sound crazy, but despite the frustration, I have enjoyed Warne's tenure so far, and really think he needs a load more time, and the chance to bring in his own players. Then the expectation that he will produce the results we need and get us promoted. I am not worried by his record at Rotherham of promotion then relegation, simply because once promoted he didn't have the funds for building a championship side. He should get that at Derby. MY main concern is whether or not he can  operate outside of his preferred "long into the channels" style.

Only time will tell!

This is pretty much exactly how I see it too @DavesaRam

With the possible exception that Louie Sibley at right-back sounds an even dodgier idea than Louie Sibley at left-back seemed when it first happened 😜

Above all, yes, he has to be given more time, and I do have a feeling it will all come good under Warne... but I now have close to zero expectation of it happening this season.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Papahet said:

IMO Springett and White aren't better than what we had already here, simply here to make up the numbers it seems.

 

Springett: I definitely agree. A willing runner with a decent battery (probably - don't think he's managed a whole game or too close to it) and that's about it.

White: isn't better (yet) but has been good enough to be involved, especially when Bird was injured. The problem was he played in a lightweight midfield which left our supposedly unbreachable defence exposed too often (Barnsley springs to mind). I think he's done OK and has a lot to offer - if we could find the right midfield balance, I'd happily have him on a season-loan ahead of Hourihane.

[Tyler Durden]

7 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

 I don't think we'll make the top 6; in his own words, that is a failure. Unfortunately, Clowes put him on a 4-year contract, so he should get another season, as i doubt we can afford another big payoff. Our league 1 adventure is quickly turning sour, and things need to change quickly. 

Also, I want him to drop the stupid David Brent act. 

 

I've read through your post and genuinely can't find one segment of it where it says anything remotely constructive or positive about Warne.

I've highlighted this part as basically you have said that in your opinion we won't make the playoffs this season (fair enough) but then that is s failure.

Not sure how you can qualify an event as being a failure without that event actually taking place.

Unless you are Nostradamus and please can you tell me this week's winning lottery numbers.

Anyhows it's pretty obvious what you think of Warne so I imagine next season unless we win the league by Xmas then you won't alter any from you standpoint.

[On the Ram Page]

2 hours ago, IslandExile said:

As the Author of the poll, I can tell you what triggered me to post were the comments that I was seeing on the Academy Thread.

Every team hits dodgy patches of form - look at Manchester City and Liverpool. In our case, we narrowly escaped extinction. I think we only had five contracted players when Clowes and Rosenior managed to scrape together a squad, with no transfer fees and under spending constraints for wages, for this season. Warne was then brought in as manager - inheriting players not necessarily suited to his preferred style of play - and he has had only one transfer window BUT no money to spend. As I understand it, even selling players he would not be allowed to buy.

So, very definitely,  I can assure you that I am not trying to sustain any Anti-Warne sentiment on the basis of the difficult situation Warne has had to contend with or a - very understandable - dip in form. No, it's not that at all.

My concerne is the bigger picture. The development, encouragement and fostering of the academy. The overall tactics and style of play if and when we get out of League One. That's what concerns me. It concerns me now as it did when he was appointed - and people warned then about tactics and non-use of the academy.

It's not just about where we finish in League One this season. Warne was brought in on a four year contract to build the whole club, not just to get us out of this division.

I hope that clarifies.

As an aside though: it's great that we have finally settled on a manager that you @Jourdan want to get behind 😉

How do you know that Warne does not view the videos of the Academy games? He often states that he is away watching Division One opposition - can he be everywhere? Our Academy was ransacked last year by the Administrators - which players do you want to include immediately in the 1st team squad?
 

We have employed someone to head our Recruitment Team, surely he is the one who should be looking out for new talent for the Academy - sorry Islandexile, I just don’t buy the fact that he is not interested in the Academy.

As for tactics, does anyone know how he actually wants to play until he gets his own players?