The Administration Thread

[RAM1966]

22 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

I know what you mean but the mood music from all concerned, particularly local politicians - see that podcast - suggests they are relaxed about it rather than feeling the strain. Kirchner himself also seems relaxed. It doesn’t feel like a last minute panic stations situation

I'm amazed that Kirchner is considering buying the club with its debt without thr ground as part of the package.  The club is not worth £30m+ without the stadium....

Maybe Kirchner will buy the ground on a mortgage after the deal is done, maybe his proved funds before would not be sufficient to pass the business plan including it with the initial purpose and he will do that later - Its a theory of course.

Ive seen some posting that buying the ground with the club would mean a cash outlay of £50-55m, then acknowledging the club is not worth that.  I'd argue that its a terrible deal not to buy an asset valued at £81.1M even if its worth less, Id estimate at least £60m to rebuild so a reasonable assumption, its worth at least that. it makes no sense to buy the club and pass up the opportunity to buy the ground for £25M, it does not make business sense.... 

Owners come and go, so come sale time, if we still do not own theground, it will massively reduce the value of the club....  Maybe Kirchner see this as a speculative punt and therefore happy not to own the club, if he goes down the same route as Morris?

I hope I'm stressing about nothing though and we are all celebrating on Saturday....  Its certainly going to be an interesting couple of days....

[curb]

21 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

I'm amazed that Kirchner is considering buying the club with its debt without thr ground as part of the package.  The club is not worth £30m+ without the stadium....

Maybe Kirchner will buy the ground on a mortgage after the deal is done, maybe his proved funds before would not be sufficient to pass the business plan including it with the initial purpose and he will do that later - Its a theory of course.

Ive seen some posting that buying the ground with the club would mean a cash outlay of £50-55m, then acknowledging the club is not worth that.  I'd argue that its a terrible deal not to buy an asset valued at £81.1M even if its worth less, Id estimate at least £60m to rebuild so a reasonable assumption, its worth at least that. it makes no sense to buy the club and pass up the opportunity to buy the ground for £25M, it does not make business sense.... 

Owners come and go, so come sale time, if we still do not own theground, it will massively reduce the value of the club....  Maybe Kirchner see this as a speculative punt and therefore happy not to own the club, if he goes down the same route as Morris?

I hope I'm stressing about nothing though and we are all celebrating on Saturday....  Its certainly going to be an interesting couple of days....

The club is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. 
Kirchner said he looked at many others and kept coming back to ours. 
The infrastructure and fan base here sets us apart from clubs that would cost a similar amount. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by curb

[Gaspode]

1 hour ago, Ovine_Interferer said:

The City Council are raking it in from the Bus Lane on the Morledge....maybe there's something good that'll come from that eh?

The evil swines - perhaps we could teach them a lesson by not driving in the bus lane.....

[ram59]

52 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

I'm amazed that Kirchner is considering buying the club with its debt without thr ground as part of the package.  The club is not worth £30m+ without the stadium....

Maybe Kirchner will buy the ground on a mortgage after the deal is done, maybe his proved funds before would not be sufficient to pass the business plan including it with the initial purpose and he will do that later - Its a theory of course.

Ive seen some posting that buying the ground with the club would mean a cash outlay of £50-55m, then acknowledging the club is not worth that.  I'd argue that its a terrible deal not to buy an asset valued at £81.1M even if its worth less, Id estimate at least £60m to rebuild so a reasonable assumption, its worth at least that. it makes no sense to buy the club and pass up the opportunity to buy the ground for £25M, it does not make business sense.... 

Owners come and go, so come sale time, if we still do not own theground, it will massively reduce the value of the club....  Maybe Kirchner see this as a speculative punt and therefore happy not to own the club, if he goes down the same route as Morris?

I hope I'm stressing about nothing though and we are all celebrating on Saturday....  Its certainly going to be an interesting couple of days....

It's not that simple to define worth, you have to take into consideration so many factors, value of assets, future income, future resale value, etc. £30M would be a bargain if in a couple of years we were back in the premier, Luton have gone from a far worse position than us to the brink of the premier. Personally I wouldn't swap a family photo on my wall for a Picasso, but there are many out there who would gladly pay millions for something that many artists could easily replicate, based purely on what some person would be willing to pay for it in the future.

As for the contentious issue regarding the value of the ground, £20M is indeed a bargain when comparing with the building costs, Brighton's ground of a similar size and specification cost £91M to build and that was 11 years ago, I would imagine that the current building costs for a Pride Park would be a minimum of £150M. Everton's new ground is costing around £100M per 10,000 capacity, to give you an idea.

[swanny]

 

I think the model for kirchner seems quite sensible. 

(perfectly sensible) then use the income of the club to pay down the debts over three years. (via player sales, and maybe even an operating profit?

 

we have les than 5 legacy contracts, so the majority of the contracted players under the League one pay cap, coupled with hopefully decent attendances and a manager capable of getting a lot out of not very much.

 

the end of the season and those existing contracts will be a watershed moment for the clubs finances. Maybe thats why hes keen again once we were down. big club so decent ticket receipts, therefore minimal need to bankroll club running costs next year which allows a bit of wiggle room for new players.  (appreciating new players become an asset anyway) 

 

in champ (in2-3 years) look at the club raising  financing to buy the stadium off the council at a favourable rate and then sell the club for 60 million 

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, swanny said:

 

I think the model for kirchner seems quite sensible. 

(perfectly sensible) then use the income of the club to pay down the debts over three years. (via player sales, and maybe even an operating profit?

 

we have les than 5 legacy contracts, so the majority of the contracted players under the League one pay cap, coupled with hopefully decent attendances and a manager capable of getting a lot out of not very much.

 

the end of the season and those existing contracts will be a watershed moment for the clubs finances. Maybe thats why hes keen again once we were down. big club so decent ticket receipts, therefore minimal need to bankroll club running costs next year which allows a bit of wiggle room for new players.  (appreciating new players become an asset anyway) 

 

in champ (in2-3 years) look at the club raising  financing to buy the stadium off the council at a favourable rate and then sell the club for 60 million 

What's this League 1 pay cap you speak of? ? 

He won't make money on us until we're in the PL. Then it would eb a case of selling for a profit, or running us at a profit.

[FindernRam]

The issue of Council funding for PP (no matter where they get those funds from is interesting.

PP gets an attendance of over 500,000 people per year.

This is far greater than the Velodrome, Moorways, and other Council subsidised entertainment facities put together, so in terms of value for money it ought to be a no-brainer. 

BUT: Public perception is that Swimming pools ,museums, athletic tracks, golf courses etc, should be owned by the people via the council. Football at professional level is awash with cash so no public funding should be spent. Further, football has a fairly bad reputation to non-fans, fights, vandalism, drunkenness, traffic and parking issues. City based fans make up far less than 10% of the population and for the 90+% the fate of DCFC is fairly unimportant. This puts the council in quite a bind when it comes to PP funding.

My non footy friends have pretty much the same reaction if the club folds-bit of a shame due to the history but never mind life goes on!

[FindernRam]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

What's this League 1 pay cap you speak of? ?

There was a cap of £2.5m but this has been withdrawn following a legal challenge. EFL are reconsidering next steps (I think).

As a result of the panel's verdict, the Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) regulations that were in place during the 2019-20 season and link "player-related expenditure to turnover", have been reinstated by the EFL.

However they may do it through the back door on clubs like Derby by approval/rejection of business plans. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

14 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

The issue of Council funding for PP (no matter where they get those funds from is interesting.

PP gets an attendance of over 500,000 people per year.

This is far greater than the Velodrome, Moorways, and other Council subsidised entertainment facities put together, so in terms of value for money it ought to be a no-brainer. 

BUT: Public perception is that Swimming pools ,museums, athletic tracks, golf courses etc, should be owned by the people via the council. Football at professional level is awash with cash so no public funding should be spent. Further, football has a fairly bad reputation to non-fans, fights, vandalism, drunkenness, traffic and parking issues. City based fans make up far less than 10% of the population and for the 90+% the fate of DCFC is fairly unimportant. This puts the council in quite a bind when it comes to PP funding.

My non footy friends have pretty much the same reaction if the club folds-bit of a shame due to the history but never mind life goes on!

I think there is a strong feeling of support for Derby County in the city and I think any dissenting voices to council doing a deal for PP wont be that vociferous if it means the club is saved. Money spent on Velodrome etc case in point. 

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

He went for a pint with Chris Poulter , who is a Tory I believe. Kirchner seems to be a Trump supporter. 

He is from Texas and that’s the way it is 

[Rambalin]

20 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

He is from Texas and that’s the way it is 

He is based there now but bought up in Kentucky (has we all know the home of fried chicken) he said so on his Facebook live chat. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

The thing I liked what CK said was that he hasn't got a clue how to run a football club - exactly what I wanted to hear and that he will make sure the right people are in place.

Could we have anybody better than Garry Cook, I don't think so. His contacts are going to be huge and just what we need.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

There was a cap of £2.5m but this has been withdrawn following a legal challenge. EFL are reconsidering next steps (I think).

As a result of the panel's verdict, the Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) regulations that were in place during the 2019-20 season and link "player-related expenditure to turnover", have been reinstated by the EFL.

However they may do it through the back door on clubs like Derby by approval/rejection of business plans. 

Exactly. There is no wage cap in L1 as suggested by @swanny.

[B4ev6is]

4 hours ago, RAM1966 said:

B4 I wish I could share your optimism, the ground is a huge stumbling block.  There is zero chance of a sale before the deadline....

I just hope a legally binding agreement to sell the ground, when an agreed acceptable offer comes in will satify Kirchner.

This is far from a done deal, as someone else has stated, he's not even involved with the ground, or appears to be being updated with whats going on with its sale.

Considering KC is insisting on MM having no involvement, he seems very casual about completing.  Something is not quite right and its a massive red flag for me.

I can see this falling to bits last min.....

Well did he not state that ground nearly done that suggest to me that ground will soon belong to derby county again.

Just one or two bits to sort out I am very very confident that wrapped up pretty damn soon.

[jono]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

The evil swines - perhaps we could teach them a lesson by not driving in the bus lane.....

No we want a fake of Rick Parrry and Mels  number plates and we’ll take turns diving up and down in shifts 

[BobdeBilder]

1 hour ago, Rambalin said:

He is based there now but bought up in Kentucky (has we all know the home of fried chicken) he said so on his Facebook live chat. 

So was Clooney. DCFC Supporters Club Kentucky Branch? 

[Crewton]

The messages this week have been the most encouraging for some time, but I think it's wise not to get over-optimistic because there are still a few steps remaining before all material issues are settled and signed off, including an agreement regarding the stadium that satisfies Kirchner's conditional offer, the final agreement on payments with preferred creditors in particular and confirmation that a further PD won't be applied. We are still dealing with a body like the EFL, and also MSD, MM and HMRC, so let's keep things muted until everything is definitely sorted.

[hintonsboots]

47 minutes ago, jono said:

No we want a fake of Rick Parrry and Mels  number plates and we’ll take turns diving up and down in shifts 

Checked DVLA but KNOB1 not available.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

7 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Checked DVLA but KNOB1 not available.

No but KN08 EDD is 

[B4ev6is]

14 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The messages this week have been the most encouraging for some time, but I think it's wise not to get over-optimistic because there are still a few steps remaining before all material issues are settled and signed off, including an agreement regarding the stadium that satisfies Kirchner's conditional offer, the final agreement on payments with preferred creditors in particular and confirmation that a further PD won't be applied. We are still dealing with a body like the EFL, and also MSD, MM and HMRC, so let's keep things muted until everything is definitely sorted.

I am sure it will be all sorted and Saturday we call all party.