Champions League Reforms and The Super League

[JoetheRam]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

The words aren't crap. They are bang on. Not liking the messenger does not affect the message 

Hmm, insincere then. In my opinion. I know a lot of people agree with what they've said and I do too, just appears fake to me.

On a par with Boris Johnson saying he is against it. Just a populist opinion to align themselves to.

[Anon]

20 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

NFL/NBA owners don't give a rat's arse about finishing last cus they make billions a year from merch & TV rights.  Sporting success will be way down their list of priorities...

The strangest thing is when certain franchises try to game the draft system and deliberately finish last several seasons in a row in order to secure high draft picks to build a future team around.

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Carragher acknowledging Sky’s role in changing football in 1992:

 

IIRC Gary Neville commented afterwards as well about accusations of hypocrisy and admitted that whilst the 1992 breakaway did have its downsides football in the UK was in dire straits at the time with hooliganism, rotting or unsafe stadiums, etc and needed change/investment.  

The money following into the game massively improved infrastructure (stadiums/training facilities), diversifed attendees (more kids and families) and bought the players to create arguably the best league in the world and unlike the proposed ESL kept the pyramid and dreams of the lesser clubs alive - all whilst passing more money down the divisions and into grassroots football than any other country.

I think both Carragher and Neville acknowledged accusations of hypocrisy but what the ESL is trying to do is on another level and entirely self-serving. 

[Ghost of Clough]

59 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Which Champions League? The current one but without the ESL teams, or for being one of the 5 invited teams?

The real one. When the others in the ESL are forced to split off, they won't be handing money out to other clubs.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

10 minutes ago, maxjam said:

IIRC Gary Neville commented afterwards as well about accusations of hypocrisy and admitted that whilst the 1992 breakaway did have its downsides football in the UK was in dire straits at the time with hooliganism, rotting or unsafe stadiums, etc and needed change/investment.  

The money following into the game massively improved infrastructure (stadiums/training facilities), diversifed attendees (more kids and families) and bought the players to create arguably the best league in the world and unlike the proposed ESL kept the pyramid and dreams of the lesser clubs alive - all whilst passing more money down the divisions and into grassroots football than any other country.

I think both Carragher and Neville acknowledged accusations of hypocrisy but what the ESL is trying to do is on another level and entirely self-serving. 

Aye. I have big problems with Sky and The Premier League (while also acknowledging the benefits they've brought), but the ESL is on another level. 

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Edited April 20, 2021 by DarkFruitsRam7

[1of4]

The other 14 Premier League clubs meet tomorrow, to decide on their actions regarding the formation of the ESL.

These 6 clubs have shown by their actions, they don't care what happens to all the other clubs. So when the clubs meet tomorrow. I hope they dont roll over and allow the so called 'big clubs' to ride roughshod over them, that 16 club chairman have the gonads to throw out these so called 'big clubs'.

[Day]

If you boot them out, Sky will take their money and follow the ESL.

I know some will say good, but that could financially destroy more clubs that have built squads and facilities off the back of that money.

With no financial rewards on offer for reaching the new Premier League, who’s going to want to buy a Championship club or lower with the ambition of getting there.

There would be a great reset, but I fear for the number of casualties if we just turn the financial tap off, it needs to be done gradually where players and agents fall into line.

The best scenario now is that the Government some how find a way to block it, I don’t like the idea overly but I don’t see PL, UEFA and FIFA threats preventing it, and it must be stopped.

Those fans of the 6 are not any less of a fan than any of us, potentially seeing their club being taken away must be devastating, and I don’t care if it’s a United fan that lives in London, a fan is a fan, let’s not gatekeep here.

UEFA also need to stop looking at lining their pockets by extending the Champions League to squeeze more games in. 

That’s what they are worried about, losing their cushty pay packets not what’s best for the game, CL without the 12 would be devastating for them.

It’s sad we have now reached the point of needing government intervention to save the game but here we are.

We need to take a lead in this as we have 6 of the 12, remove that and without the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, PSG the whole thing crumbles.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 minutes ago, David said:

If you boot them out, Sky will take their money and follow the ESL.

I know some will say good, but that could financially destroy more clubs that have built squads and facilities off the back of that money.

With no financial rewards on offer for reaching the new Premier League, who’s going to want to buy a Championship club or lower with the ambition of getting there.

There would be a great reset, but I fear for the number of casualties if we just turn the financial tap off, it needs to be done gradually where players and agents fall into line.

The best scenario now is that the Government some how find a way to block it, I don’t like the idea overly but I don’t see PL, UEFA and FIFA threats preventing it, and it must be stopped.

Those fans of the 6 are not any less of a fan than any of us, potentially seeing their club being taken away must be devastating, and I don’t care if it’s a United fan that lives in London, a fan is a fan, let’s not gatekeep here.

UEFA also need to stop looking at lining their pockets by extending the Champions League to squeeze more games in. 

That’s what they are worried about, losing their cushty pay packets not what’s best for the game, CL without the 12 would be devastating for them.

It’s sad we have now reached the point of needing government intervention to save the game but here we are.

We need to take a lead in this as we have 6 of the 12, remove that and without the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, PSG the whole thing crumbles.

Good post.

I'd also say the players are the only other ones with the power to stop this. But it would require them to grow a backbone and maybe sacrifice an extra supercar in their garage. At the minute, I fear they're just going to begrudgingly accept it. Last night, James Milner came across as someone who is against it but would eventually end up doing what he's told.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, David said:

If you boot them out, Sky will take their money and follow the ESL.

I know some will say good, but that could financially destroy more clubs that have built squads and facilities off the back of that money.

With no financial rewards on offer for reaching the new Premier League, who’s going to want to buy a Championship club or lower with the ambition of getting there.

There would be a great reset, but I fear for the number of casualties if we just turn the financial tap off, it needs to be done gradually where players and agents fall into line.

The best scenario now is that the Government some how find a way to block it, I don’t like the idea overly but I don’t see PL, UEFA and FIFA threats preventing it, and it must be stopped.

Those fans of the 6 are not any less of a fan than any of us, potentially seeing their club being taken away must be devastating, and I don’t care if it’s a United fan that lives in London, a fan is a fan, let’s not gatekeep here.

UEFA also need to stop looking at lining their pockets by extending the Champions League to squeeze more games in. 

That’s what they are worried about, losing their cushty pay packets not what’s best for the game, CL without the 12 would be devastating for them.

It’s sad we have now reached the point of needing government intervention to save the game but here we are.

We need to take a lead in this as we have 6 of the 12, remove that and without the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, PSG the whole thing crumbles.

Sky can't just pull the plug though. The deal they agreed with the PL wouldn't be void because 6 specific clubs are no longer in it

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Sky can't just pull the plug though. The deal they agreed with the PL wouldn't be void because 6 specific clubs are no longer in it

They only have one season left on the deal don’t they?

[FindernRam]

If ESL are booted from the Premier then they have no domestic games apart from the 10 games a year amongst themselves. Can't see sky wanting to pay overly much for that. Also Sky have largely squeezed the sports market as much as it will bear, hence all the deals they offer.

I have BT sport (paid by my ST saving) but most of the Champions league games have been pretty dull so may drop it next year no matter what form the CL takes.

Football as a spectacle has been dying for years with over coaching, negative tactics, fit players who can do box to box all game to flood the penalty area in defence. Very few really exciting games anymore. 

The ESL proposals will be a huge catalyst for change but I have no idea where it will go. Not sure I'm bothered anymore.

Much is being made of franchising , states style, well it's day may be over! Lots of stats to indicate that attendance and TV audiences are way down. Even the Super bowl is down 30% in viewing figures. 

[Day]

7 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Good post.

I'd also say the players are the only other ones with the power to stop this. But it would require them to grow a backbone and maybe sacrifice an extra supercar in their garage. At the minute, I fear they're just going to begrudgingly accept it. Last night, James Milner came across as someone who is against it but would eventually end up doing what he's told.

A few have come out to voice their dislike for the idea, but not sure what they can do.

Players like Milner won’t make a difference, only has another season or two in him.

Now if a significant number of young stars all came out and said we’re out once our contracts are up, maybe they would listen, not sure. 

They are contracted to play, all they could do is run their deals down but when you have a player that’s been on 150k pw at say United, is he going to be happy walking away for say 50k a week at West Ham to make a stand?

They will have lifestyles and investments in place where it would be a huge hit for them. 

[WhiteHorseRam]

21 minutes ago, David said:

The best scenario now is that the Government some how find a way to block it, I don’t like the idea overly but I don’t see PL, UEFA and FIFA threats preventing it, and it must be stopped.

This is the only way.

Fortunately, Boris could take this line. He has a stinking great Tory majority to drive it through. No one will vote against it. 

Then along with the vaccine success he will have 'saved football for the common man.'

[richinspain]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The real one. When the others in the ESL are forced to split off, they won't be handing money out to other clubs.

So the one with vastly reduced prize money because the big 12/15 aren't in it. It will still be a lot of money, but won't compare with now.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

This is the only way.

Fortunately, Boris could take this line. He has a stinking great Tory majority to drive it through. No one will vote against it. 

Then along with the vaccine success he will have 'saved football for the common man.'

Trying not to get political here but a great incentive after mismanagement of the Covid situation. Couldn’t have come at a better time for him personally. That’s all I’ll say on that before I get told off.

[TigerTedd]

12 hours ago, Andicis said:

The whole of Europe gets the pick of 5 spots, how generous Florentino. 

In other words, games will be an hour long, split into quarters, with plenty of breaks for VAR, snd advertising up the wazoo (despite subscribers having already paid for an advert free experience). 

and by what metric or these the best teams in the world?! Some aren’t even the best teams in their city! What an honour, we’re able to play with the best teams in the world. Not win the league kind you, cos we’d get a fraction of the money to play with, we just get the honour of playing with these teams for a season. 

however, when they talk about having their own World Cup etc. etc. We may laugh, but (and I’m way out of my comfort zone here) is that how rugby league and union split? All it takes is a few founding members, and this time in 20 years they could have a thriving variant of the sport with their own World Cup and thousands of players playing that variant. But they definitely can’t play in both leagues. Union and league teams can’t, that would be daft. 

[Millenniumram]

Just have to hope some players / managers at the affected clubs make a proper stand against this. Someone like Klopp resigning might force a rethink.

[Day]

19 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

If ESL are booted from the Premier then they have no domestic games apart from the 10 games a year amongst themselves. Can't see sky wanting to pay overly much for that. Also Sky have largely squeezed the sports market as much as it will bear, hence all the deals they offer.

I have BT sport (paid by my ST saving) but most of the Champions league games have been pretty dull so may drop it next year no matter what form the CL takes.

Football as a spectacle has been dying for years with over coaching, negative tactics, fit players who can do box to box all game to flood the penalty area in defence. Very few really exciting games anymore. 

The ESL proposals will be a huge catalyst for change but I have no idea where it will go. Not sure I'm bothered anymore.

Much is being made of franchising , states style, well it's day may be over! Lots of stats to indicate that attendance and TV audiences are way down. Even the Super bowl is down 30% in viewing figures. 

Not so sure Sky wouldn’t have an interest, I can see the adverts already, see the best players in the world compete week in week out.

Similar format to the SPL to stretch it out for the season. 

But this only works if fans are willing to pay for it. And I fear many would as it would be hard to just turn your back on the club. 

“Legacy fans” would be replaced in time with those young kids that have grown up with the ESL and all they have known sadly.

[BucksRam]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Not so sure Sky wouldn’t have an interest, I can see the adverts already, see the best players in the world compete week in week out.

Similar format to the SPL to stretch it out for the season. 

But this only works if fans are willing to pay for it. And I fear many would as it would be hard to just turn your back on the club. 

“Legacy fans” would be replaced in time with those young kids that have grown up with the ESL and all they have known sadly.

Have to agree.  To use a non football related example, so apologies, but Call of Duty, of which I am, or was a die hard fan.  Oldest gamer in town.  Modern Warfare came out in 2019, and became one of the best, if not arguably the best COD game ever.  Attached to that was Warzone, a Fornite style battle royal game.  Then along came Call of Duty Cold War, a vastly inferior game.  To ram it down our throats,  the game we originally bought, Modern Warfare, was forcibly morphed into Cold War / Warzone, with the original game becoming a barely supported sidebar.  Many die hard (legacy) fans abandoned ship or only now dip in and out, myself included.  There were many calls to boycott the new one, but in exactly the same way you say the game would be replaced by a new breed, the same's happening with COD.  Millions have either begrudgingly parted with a lot of money to continue to play a game a lot of them hate, or new gamers have joined, happily lining the pockets of Activision with literally £billions.  I fear the same could happen here. 

[Brammie Steve]

Word of the month is:-

 

Oligopoly

A market form where a market or industry is dominated by a small group of large sellers.

 

Impress your friends....use it often!