Champions League Reforms and The Super League

[RadioactiveWaste]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I get what you're saying, but the 'guaranteed places' are for those with the highest coefficients - over time those clubs change. The Super League ensure the same 15 teams would be there every year.

It's like a poison that only leaves you in crippling pain for an extended period instead of a poison that does the same thing but you die at the end. Yey.

[SFD1968]

Looks like the European Super League is dead. 12 teams in it on Sunday, only 4 left in right now. For once the fans have been listened to. These clubs (and by clubs, I really mean the owners) need to remember now and forever that without the fans who buy the shirts, buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, go to the games, pay for TV channels to watch their teams on...then there would be no club. Football needs its fans more than it needs its billionaire owners, and these 6 clubs who nearly betrayed the other 86 clubs in the League and countless other teams in the rest of the pyramid should never ever be allowed to forget what they nearly did.

Should there be punishments involved? Absolutely.

How to punish them is a problem. If the playing squad and managers all feel like Klopp, Jordan Henderson, Marcus Rashford and Pep Guardiola, then why should they be punished for something they had no say in setting up and that they disagreed with?

The best solution would be to sanction the 6 owners and (quietly or loudly) kick them out of football in this country. Will it happen? I doubt it, because money talks.

But the FA & the Premier League must get their heads together and their fingers out to ensure that this can never ever happen again in this country.

[JoetheRam]

On 19/04/2021 at 13:30, JoetheRam said:

Wild theory:

Did they just re-boot the ESL idea to get the UCL reforms (which as above obviously further improve the lots of the "elite" clubs) through and people would accept them as being better than the alternative?

Can't believe I've wasted at least 2 hours reading, watching and thinking about this load of balls today.

Seems like they did. 

Reading the comments from the various media outlets today and anyone would think Man City and Chelsea were some sort of gallant warriors for good in the game.

"Massive respect to Chelsea for pulling out" etc.

Oh please look beyond the end of your nose! They were in it if they thought they could get away with it.

Stupid UCL reforms been pushed through without so much as a critical voice in the media, and we hear that UEFA paid the clubs involved to leave the Super League... sounds more like they paid them to act as lightning rods for the bad PR.

Status quo kept, "Elite" clubs stranglehold on European competition strengthened, illusion of competition maintained and no one noticed, job done.

[1of4]

Just listened to John Barns on the radio talking about the clubs backing down from forming the EFL. 

Fully agree with everything he said. That the ordinary fans haven't won anything, that the clubs, the FA, UEFA and FIFA will still carry on exploiting the fans. That the billionaire owners and the elite groups of people that run the football governing bogies only care about what is best for them.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

5 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

Seems like they did. 

Reading the comments from the various media outlets today and anyone would think Man City and Chelsea were some sort of gallant warriors for good in the game.

"Massive respect to Chelsea for pulling out" etc.

Oh please look beyond the end of your nose! They were in it if they thought they could get away with it.

Stupid UCL reforms been pushed through without so much as a critical voice in the media, and we hear that UEFA paid the clubs involved to leave the Super League... sounds more like they paid them to act as lightning rods for the bad PR.

Status quo kept, "Elite" clubs stranglehold on European competition strengthened, illusion of competition maintained and no one noticed, job done.

Interesting theory, but total rubbish IMO.

[Gaspode]

Weirdly found myself supporting clubs playing against the ‘big 6’ - wanted Southampton to beat Spurs (they didn’t) and actually cheered when Villa scored against Man City after 20 seconds....

[Wolfie20]

Fingers crossed Juventus blow their Champions League place, with Napoli and Lazio breathing down their neck. That'll be a bit of a sickener for their greedy owner.

[kevinhectoring]

5 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Interesting theory, but total rubbish IMO.

Talk about rubbish, look at this by Daniel Finkelstein in the Times:

I don’t think the Super League was a money-grabbing exercise. I think it was a value-destroying one, undermining the vastly successful Premier League and Champions League in favour of a tournament old fans would hate and new fans wouldn’t warm to. Even the clubs that signed up for it have belatedly come to realise this.

[Gaspode]

Reports this morning that the collapse of the ESL may resurrect the Premier League reforms proposed last year. They now reckon it could be:

- 18 teams in the PL

- Rangers and Celtic included

- possible playoffs for the top 4

Trouble is the authorities will probably grab any proposal that looks ‘less bad’ than the ESL while the greedy scumbag owners will still be looking at any and all ways of making more money......

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

34 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

Reports this morning that the collapse of the ESL may resurrect the Premier League reforms proposed last year. They now reckon it could be:

- 18 teams in the PL

- Rangers and Celtic included

- possible playoffs for the top 4

Trouble is the authorities will probably grab any proposal that looks ‘less bad’ than the ESL while the greedy scumbag owners will still be looking at any and all ways of making more money......

 

You're probably right......all with a "well it's this or the super league" tag line if anyone objects.

THey may even try to bring back the "extra overseas game" idea (remember that?)

[Olton Ram]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Reports this morning that the collapse of the ESL may resurrect the Premier League reforms proposed last year. They now reckon it could be:

- 18 teams in the PL

- Rangers and Celtic included

- possible playoffs for the top 4

Trouble is the authorities will probably grab any proposal that looks ‘less bad’ than the ESL while the greedy scumbag owners will still be looking at any and all ways of making more money......

 

Surely changes like this would require a majority of current Prem clubs to vote for them? They can't be imposed on them. I can't see why a majority would vote to reduce the number of Prem clubs (thereby increasing the chances of some of them being relegated to the EFL), whilst also waving in two Scottish clubs that haven't earned their place. It would be suicidal for the likes of Brighton, Burnley, Crystal Palace etc. What's in it for them? Sounds like another crackpot idea from the money men. But with the state of football these days nothing should surprise us I suppose. ?‍♂️

[MuespachRam]

On 21/04/2021 at 06:40, SFD1968 said:

Looks like the European Super League is dead. 12 teams in it on Sunday, only 4 left in right now. For once the fans have been listened to. These clubs (and by clubs, I really mean the owners) need to remember now and forever that without the fans who buy the shirts, buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, go to the games, pay for TV channels to watch their teams on...then there would be no club. Football needs its fans more than it needs its billionaire owners, and these 6 clubs who nearly betrayed the other 86 clubs in the League and countless other teams in the rest of the pyramid should never ever be allowed to forget what they nearly did.

Should there be punishments involved? Absolutely.

How to punish them is a problem. If the playing squad and managers all feel like Klopp, Jordan Henderson, Marcus Rashford and Pep Guardiola, then why should they be punished for something they had no say in setting up and that they disagreed with?

The best solution would be to sanction the 6 owners and (quietly or loudly) kick them out of football in this country. Will it happen? I doubt it, because money talks.

But the FA & the Premier League must get their heads together and their fingers out to ensure that this can never ever happen again in this country.

Did they worry about punishing people who had no say in it when they banned Derby County Football Club from European competitions because of the Liverpool fans murdering 39 Juve fans..?

They should at least dock them 50 points or better still kick them all out of the league.

[Day]

10 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Reports this morning that the collapse of the ESL may resurrect the Premier League reforms proposed last year. They now reckon it could be:

- 18 teams in the PL

- Rangers and Celtic included

- possible playoffs for the top 4

Trouble is the authorities will probably grab any proposal that looks ‘less bad’ than the ESL while the greedy scumbag owners will still be looking at any and all ways of making more money......

 

Rangers and Celtic should only be included if all other Scottish teams are brought into the system and a UK league structure is formed.

Scotland losing those 2 would be a disaster up there. 

If done right I wouldn’t be totally against it, we just couldn’t have Aberdeen v Brighton on a Tuesday night and there would need to be some deal with train companies where a match ticket would give a hefty reduction in prices.

Although I would trial it in a UK cup first before making major changes to the league structure.

[jono]

One thing that caught my eye in the fall out .. I guessed the Ed Woodward(Man U) who used to work for J P Morgan was probably one of the architects of this money/power grab. I was ready with the voodoo doll and the bonfire  .. but apparently he handed his resignation in to the Glazers before all this became public because he didn’t agree with the plan ... now is this because he is some kind of sporting Knight or because he thought he could have planned it better ? 

Yet, they are all as bad as each other. The Prem talking about sport and a level playing field ? .. yeah right. 8 Parachute clubs share 240 million. While others end up with with a couple of million per club in “solidarity” payments .. Level ?  hummm 

 ... and FIFA / UEFA with their corruption free organisation that isn’t the least bit self serving and whose employees are paragons of ethics who have never had a lined pocket in their lives .. pah! 

[Old Spalding Ram]

50 minutes ago, David said:

Rangers and Celtic should only be included if all other Scottish teams are brought into the system and a UK league structure is formed.

Scotland losing those 2 would be a disaster up there. 

If done right I wouldn’t be totally against it, we just couldn’t have Aberdeen v Brighton on a Tuesday night and there would need to be some deal with train companies where a match ticket would give a hefty reduction in prices.

Although I would trial it in a UK cup first before making major changes to the league structure.

“we just couldn’t have Aberdeen v Brighton on a Tuesday night”

Trent buses football special to Airdrie on a Wednesday night............where’s your sense of adventure lad?
 

[Olton Ram]

29 minutes ago, Old Spalding Ram said:

“we just couldn’t have Aberdeen v Brighton on a Tuesday night”

Trent buses football special to Airdrie on a Wednesday night............where’s your sense of adventure lad?
 

In January as well!

I'm sure any hardy supporters who went up from Derby must have been thrilled with the result: 0-0 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Old Spalding Ram said:

“we just couldn’t have Aberdeen v Brighton on a Tuesday night”

Trent buses football special to Airdrie on a Wednesday night............where’s your sense of adventure lad?
 

The best thing I can say about Airdrie? It's marginally less feral than Shotts.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

13 hours ago, jono said:

One thing that caught my eye in the fall out .. I guessed the Ed Woodward(Man U) who used to work for J P Morgan was probably one of the architects of this money/power grab. I was ready with the voodoo doll and the bonfire  .. but apparently he handed his resignation in to the Glazers before all this became public because he didn’t agree with the plan ... now is this because he is some kind of sporting Knight or because he thought he could have planned it better ? 

Yet, they are all as bad as each other. The Prem talking about sport and a level playing field ? .. yeah right. 8 Parachute clubs share 240 million. While others end up with with a couple of million per club in “solidarity” payments .. Level ?  hummm 

 ... and FIFA / UEFA with their corruption free organisation that isn’t the least bit self serving and whose employees are paragons of ethics who have never had a lined pocket in their lives .. pah! 

Someone in the Manchester United organisation will have that 150m estimated on line followers at 1 pound a pop stat as a key indicator. 

That's what they're really after- sole distributor rights to their content. So if someone has estimated that there's 150m quid per game up for grabs, that's now the holy grail and the genie is out of the bottle imo.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

15 hours ago, David said:

Rangers and Celtic should only be included if all other Scottish teams are brought into the system and a UK league structure is formed.

Scotland losing those 2 would be a disaster up there. 

If done right I wouldn’t be totally against it, we just couldn’t have Aberdeen v Brighton on a Tuesday night and there would need to be some deal with train companies where a match ticket would give a hefty reduction in prices.

Although I would trial it in a UK cup first before making major changes to the league structure.

Only if it's supported by both SPFL and EFL fans. I don't care if it would improve the English leagues tenfold; if it isn't wanted by the fans over there then I wouldn't support it. And the same goes if lower league clubs in England are mostly against it.

If there's anything we've learned over the last few days, you don't piss about with the footballing pyramid at the expense of the fans.

[JoetheRam]

Let's not forget either that some of the lower placed Premier League clubs wanted to take advantage of the Pandemic to abolish relegation last season. 

The self interest in the game is what's killed it.