Champions League Reforms and The Super League

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, Alpha said:

And this is the reason they'll be parted with their money and have to fly to Spain every other week. 

This is why £45 today become £60 tomorrow and eventually you can't afford to be loyal. 

Won't they mostly be going to the North West or London?

[Alph]

Imagine selling a product that you bump up the price and people keep moaning about it but paying it. Mumbling "loyalty"

Do you stop bumping the price up? 

You keep going up until you reach the cost of loyalty. Which football still hasn't reached and I won't be surprised if these angry Spurs/Liverpool fans still go ahead and blindly follow. "Loyalty"

All of them will eventually cry when their clubs price them out

Just like some fathers can't take their sons to Norwich for £45. 

Fans have fed this frenzy. Their subscriptions and direct debits attracted the investors and adverts. 

It will stop when loyal fans actually stop. Like actually stop. Not threaten to stop or moan a bit. 

Keep being loyal by all means, but your jumping in the ocean and complaining about getting wet

[Alph]

13 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

 

Which is why there needs to be intervention from the top. 

Who is gonna intervene? They're all getting paid more. 

Uefa only crying cus it takes money out their pocket.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Just now, Alpha said:

Who is gonna intervene? They're all getting paid more. 

Uefa only crying cus it takes money out their pocket.

Governments.

[1of4]

Sod um all, throw all these money grabbing bamfords out now. Football will carry on without them.

[Anon]

8 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Governments.

Why should they? As much as I dislike the current state of football, I also dislike the idea of the government fixing ticket prices for independent companies. Concert and festival tickets are bloody expensive too. Should the government decide what a fair price is for punters to go and see Biffy Clyro?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

4 minutes ago, Anon said:

Why should they? As much as I dislike the current state of football, I also dislike the idea of the government fixing ticket prices for independent companies. Concert and festival tickets are bloody expensive too. Should the government decide what a fair price is for punters to go and see Biffy Clyro?

I imagine that comes down to personal views.

My political inclinations mean I’m not averse to measured government intervention.

[Old Spalding Ram]

The announcement that the Deloitte Audit & Assurance Spreadsheet League will include Spurs is of no surprise, mind you, the last time they were champions of any league the farthing ceased to be legal tender, Charles de Gaulle was recommending independence for Algeria, The Beatles played their fist gig at the Cavern Club, Barbies boyfriend Ken was born and my old Northcliffe United manager Tommy Powell played his last game for Derby County.

 

To quote social media influencer Jim Royle

.............................superleague my a*se!

 

** Note, younger folks may have to google farthing, The Beatles, Charles de Gaulle and Tommy Powell**

[ilkleyram]

You can question their motives but they would have more than anticipated this furore and will judge that in the next few days calmer heads will prevail at FIFA, UEFA, the various FAs and the Premier League, plus the TV broadcasters.

TV money may be on the wane but if you were a middle ranking PL club - Everton (about to invest £500m in a new stadium with a business case that depends upon that level of TV money), or Southampton or West Ham - you would know that the reason that you get the money that you do get is because of the viewing figures from the UK but more importantly, abroad, for the matches against the 6 clubs.  So, when you consider throwing them out of the EPL, the 6 will judge, what are you going to do when Sky renegotiate the TV deal because the 6 major TV audience generators have all left.  And that deal is substantially lower than the current one and it then means that you can't buy Jesse Lingard, or pay him the deal that he wants/demands. And you multiply the drop in revenue by the three years of the contract.  The sums will be huge.

And if you're CEO of the FA, which, let's face it is a pretty feckless organisation anyway, what are you going to think about losing the 6 clubs from the FA Cup - the ones that the minnows all want to play.  What will the BBC pay for that contract?  Ditto the Carabao Cup and the EFL.  Both competitions now so diluted anyway that they've lost any sense of the glory and importance they used to carry.

And then there's UEFA and FIFA.  Both organisations renowned for their probity and upholding of high principles, rattling sabres about the sanctity of the sport and the importance of the fans.  Yeah right. First and foremost they want what's right for UEFA and FIFA.  They won't want a CL competition without the 12 clubs because their TV/advertising revenues will plummet; they will want a WC with all the main players and all the main countries at their strongest because that's how they make millions out of Coca Cola, that well known health drink.

Lets not forget either the players, who love communicating with their fans so much that they pay agencies £4,000 a month to write a few inane comments on their social media accounts for the fans - We go again!  If you are Messi or Ronaldo you have made your money.  You might be able to afford a few words for the fans, until Juventus and Barca (1bn euros in debt) tell you to shut up.  What if you're Mason Mount though?  Just starting out on a career.  You haven't made your FU money yet, nor have you won much.  You didn't imagine playing for Southampton in your dreams as a kid, you saw yourself at the top of the tree winning trophies, playing for England.  Your employer tells you to say nothing controversial; your agent (who only has your best interests at heart - yeah right) says let's hold on and see what happens here.  There's money to be made. You think about earning a good slice of £4bn, setting yourself up for life and playing 30 games a season with a bit of travel thrown in.  All of a sudden your dreams change.

There's the TV companies of course.  They're hard bitten business negotiators as we know.  Why would they pay the same for what they might think is going to be a lesser product - less watched, less advertising revenue, less Carra v Gary? No more MNF or Super Sunday.

And then there's the patsies in the deal - because every rip off has to have a patsy - us.  We don't go, we don't buy season tickets or merchandise.  Empty stadiums?  No bother - we've just had a season of that.  Went OK.  They'll come back eventually and if not then there's China, or Indonesia or Vietnam and South Korea. All those hotbeds of Tosketh and Trafford and the Kings Road.

We've been here before when Kerry Packer did his thing and shook up a whole sport.  He actually made it work for a few years.  Who's to say this won't be the same?  They've judged that the authorities and clubs won't have any bottle when push comes to shove and that the TV companies have shareholders to please and the players (led by Gordon Taylor and their agents - ye Gods) will do as they're told and the fans long since lost their financial clout.  They might just be right.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Brilliant this absolutely brilliant 

by the way does anyone see the humour that both Derby and the red dogs not being in the top six when it actually might matter ?

Of course, I should have also said parachute payments do not count towards revenue when making the decision.
No relegation from the PL this season either.

By my calculations, that means Norwich, Watford, Derby, Stoke, Swansea and Forest win automatic promotion. Sheff Weds just miss out by a few grand - it's very close between them, Forest and Swansea, so the Welsh side may miss out if their sponsorship has dropped just a tiny bit over the last season.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing what happens when Spurs are the whipping boys and in 3 or 4 years the actual  big clubs decide that a world super league may be better. Perhaps River Plate and Corinthians.  Maybe a couple of Chinese clubs who will buy their way in at a couple of billion a year.  No way back into the English pyramid.  A big stadium for the Ismithian league division.

Hope they enjoy the Kanes of this world jumping ship to a bigger team in the competition while he has a window as well.

Got the players union advising they are to get involved protecting players from not being involved in international matches. Quite simple -if the players refuse to play in a competition their not contracted to play in. it won't happen.  When their offered a 50 per cent pay increase it's up to them. They could be putting a stop to this now if they spoke up but as usual the cash talks.

Klopps against it- he refused to fulfil a league cup fixture last year unless he could play his u 18s.

Nevilles disgusted- Didn't stop him being part of the Man Utd team that refused to play in the 2000 F.A cup to play in the FIFA world club cup with associated massive TV payments.

Players and teams participating in the kings cup in Thailand in recent years.

Indignation is fine if you were never part of the problem at ground roots.

Just seen some tit outside Arsenals ground stating why should Arsenal have to put up with playing Slavia Prague when there not good enough to play against Arsenal ?? .

 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

So It is between Leicester and West Ham this season for the league then. Who would have thought that.? 

Bucket man's Leeds are currently in a Champions League spot too. Who would have thought that a year ago?

1 hour ago, SaintRam said:

You couldn't for this one immediate year in the hypothetical. If you did, 9 teams will be entering the Championship from League 1. 

In all seriousness, it would have to be as you've suggested (I still prefer my idea ?)

Maybe a playoff in each league between 5th-8th or similar.

[Kernow]

I really don't get how contractually it's going to be sustainable for these clubs. If they're part of a separate organisation under no control of national football associations, UEFA or FIFA, they will surely not be able to buy or sell players who are part of clubs within these organisations? The governing bodies will need to sanction any transfers between clubs as they usually do, and if they don't recognise the other governing body as legitimate, it can't happen right?

You'll have a situation where players will have to wait to become free agents to transfer to an ESL or a FIFA/UEFA club. Then the players, if moving to an ESL club, will also have to decide whether they wish to give up on any international commitments for at least the duration of that contract. The youth teams of the ESL clubs will not be part of the usual structures, meaning a Youth ESL will need to be set-up in order to keep the next generation playing competitively. I'm sure U15 and U16 sides will feasibly be able to fly regularly to Spain and Italy for football matches.

This league is meant to be a way of "showcasing the greatest players and the greatest clubs in the world." They're relying on being able to offer enough money to overcome the integrity of the player, or the supply of the greatest players will fast run out.

[Gritstone Ram]

Surely from an environmental point having teams flying backwards and forwards every week must leave a big carbon footprint. Get the Thunberg to stick her oar in.

[Red_Dawn]

As shyte as our teams are, don't you feel happy to know you won't have to have that conflict over whether you can feasibly continue supporting your club? 

[Rammy03]

 

[OoooMarkWright]

37 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

You can question their motives but they would have more than anticipated this furore and will judge that in the next few days calmer heads will prevail at FIFA, UEFA, the various FAs and the Premier League, plus the TV broadcasters.

TV money may be on the wane but if you were a middle ranking PL club - Everton (about to invest £500m in a new stadium with a business case that depends upon that level of TV money), or Southampton or West Ham - you would know that the reason that you get the money that you do get is because of the viewing figures from the UK but more importantly, abroad, for the matches against the 6 clubs.  So, when you consider throwing them out of the EPL, the 6 will judge, what are you going to do when Sky renegotiate the TV deal because the 6 major TV audience generators have all left.  And that deal is substantially lower than the current one and it then means that you can't buy Jesse Lingard, or pay him the deal that he wants/demands. And you multiply the drop in revenue by the three years of the contract.  The sums will be huge.

And if you're CEO of the FA, which, let's face it is a pretty feckless organisation anyway, what are you going to think about losing the 6 clubs from the FA Cup - the ones that the minnows all want to play.  What will the BBC pay for that contract?  Ditto the Carabao Cup and the EFL.  Both competitions now so diluted anyway that they've lost any sense of the glory and importance they used to carry.

And then there's UEFA and FIFA.  Both organisations renowned for their probity and upholding of high principles, rattling sabres about the sanctity of the sport and the importance of the fans.  Yeah right. First and foremost they want what's right for UEFA and FIFA.  They won't want a CL competition without the 12 clubs because their TV/advertising revenues will plummet; they will want a WC with all the main players and all the main countries at their strongest because that's how they make millions out of Coca Cola, that well known health drink.

Lets not forget either the players, who love communicating with their fans so much that they pay agencies £4,000 a month to write a few inane comments on their social media accounts for the fans - We go again!  If you are Messi or Ronaldo you have made your money.  You might be able to afford a few words for the fans, until Juventus and Barca (1bn euros in debt) tell you to shut up.  What if you're Mason Mount though?  Just starting out on a career.  You haven't made your FU money yet, nor have you won much.  You didn't imagine playing for Southampton in your dreams as a kid, you saw yourself at the top of the tree winning trophies, playing for England.  Your employer tells you to say nothing controversial; your agent (who only has your best interests at heart - yeah right) says let's hold on and see what happens here.  There's money to be made. You think about earning a good slice of £4bn, setting yourself up for life and playing 30 games a season with a bit of travel thrown in.  All of a sudden your dreams change.

There's the TV companies of course.  They're hard bitten business negotiators as we know.  Why would they pay the same for what they might think is going to be a lesser product - less watched, less advertising revenue, less Carra v Gary? No more MNF or Super Sunday.

And then there's the patsies in the deal - because every rip off has to have a patsy - us.  We don't go, we don't buy season tickets or merchandise.  Empty stadiums?  No bother - we've just had a season of that.  Went OK.  They'll come back eventually and if not then there's China, or Indonesia or Vietnam and South Korea. All those hotbeds of Tosketh and Trafford and the Kings Road.

We've been here before when Kerry Packer did his thing and shook up a whole sport.  He actually made it work for a few years.  Who's to say this won't be the same?  They've judged that the authorities and clubs won't have any bottle when push comes to shove and that the TV companies have shareholders to please and the players (led by Gordon Taylor and their agents - ye Gods) will do as they're told and the fans long since lost their financial clout.  They might just be right.

One of the best posts I’ve ever read on here. I fear you may be correct. Absolutely nailed every word - great post!

[ariotofmyown]

Destructive and irresponsible capitalism increases daily, but you just can't mess with the moral purity of the Premier League!

[RadioactiveWaste]

We had to do it because we just weren't going to make enough money!

It'll be good for everyone else because you'll get extra sit down and shut up money!

We have a massive stonking hard on for how VAR has improved the sport, so we're going to make it that for everything!

 

[Olton Ram]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

We had to do it because we just weren't going to make enough money!

It'll be good for everyone else because you'll get extra sit down and shut up money!

We have a massive stonking hard on for how VAR has improved the sport, so we're going to make it that for everything!

 

I read this earlier on The Guardian. What is most offensive is their whining about the economic impact of Covid, whilst not giving a solitary toss about the same impact on their existing fellow league members or the even worse impact on lower league clubs. Covid won't put any of these clubs out of business, but it's absolutely catastrophic for smaller clubs. But what do they matter? Mega profits are more important than the actual survival of other clubs.