Pro Warne

[Tombo]

I am fully prepared to admit I am/was a Warne doubter. Things have changed, which I didn't think they would.

I know you'll say "ah! I see! As soon as the results start coming in, you change your tune!! I am very smart!!"

Yes, of course. Because it was and always has been about results and performance. I don't like sprouts but if they suddenly started tasting like chocolate cake I may be inclined to revise my dislike of them.

I am still a long-termist, and I don't believe that what this team was doing under Warne at the start of the season and pretty much all of last season works, and nor do I believe it to be the key to success. Warne however, to his credit, seems to have huge willing to change things that don't work, against everything he had planned on doing. Almost no other football manager I've ever seen does this. Managers and coaches are generally "pigheaded" for want of a better phrase and believe so strongly in their vision that they will double down in the face of failure. Just look at Ange Postecoglou at Spurs who recently spoke about this and said that he will stick to his guns no matter what. If it gets him the sack, then he just wasn't the guy for the job. That mentality is common with football managers and is largely where my doubts about Warne stemmed from.

But he has changed it. We move with far more tempo, play through the middle a little more, mix up our play going long and short at different intervals to find a way to win. I don't know whether it is encouraging for a football manager to be so free and easy with their philosophy and have the ability to say "OK, I got it wrong. We're going to chuck a lot of this in the bin and go back to the drawing board", or whether a manager should stick to their vision no matter what.

Postecoglou described it as a lose-lose situation for a football manager. If fans are calling for a certain change, and you cave to that pressure, you will not get the credit if it goes well. If it goes badly, then you will have sacrificed your philosophy at a cheap price and you will still get the sack. Better to stick to what you believe in and fall on your sword, no?

Regardless, Warne deserves the credit for turning it around and changing things. I will grant him that because it is his credit to have. Takes a lot to swallow your pride and change your mind. However, he also shares the blame for having it wrong in the first place, and the question has to be asked what he will do next if what we are doing now stops working. Will he switch it up again? Can he make the necessary tweaks if it's not something he necessarily believes in? Can he get the players to buy in if it is crystal clear that he hasn't even fully bought in?

Ok look...I'll cut a long story short.

 

We're playing good football and getting good results and I'm happy.

[ram59]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

You might be right, but my gripe was more with the style of play and some turgid performances. Not only have results improved but we are now playing some decent football. Long may it continue 😊🐏

My problem with some of the anti Warne posters, this is not aimed at you personally, was that their 'statements of fact' that Warne was instructing them to play in this style of play. But when you listened to his after match interviews, he vented the same frustrations as we did. So, we should be criticising his lack of ability to get the players to play the right kind of football and not his style of football.

We are gradually starting to play better, so I imagine that he is finally starting to get his message across and/or the players are adapting to what Warne wants. I believe that some fans think that the players have gone 'rogue' recently and are playing well, in spite of Warne rather than because of him.

Ironically, some of the pro Warne brigade criticise the anti Warne posters, for making the same critical points as Warne does in the aftermath of a victory.

I think both sides, sometimes need to show a little more humility to each other, because sometimes those on the other side might be making a valid point.

[FlyBritishMidland]

6 hours ago, DiggerB said:

Can’t remember him not thanking the fans for staying with the team, whilst also acknowledging the times they’ve had the right to be unhappy. I don’t mind him having a chip back at the fans after some of the dog’s abuse he’s had on SoMe particularly. He’s a multi-layered character, but I’d rather that than some of the media-trained auto-matrons who spout the usual clichés every Saturday teatime.

He did thank the fans last night for sticking with the team.  Or at least the intelligent ones, and less intelligent ones would have given the team some stick, which doesn’t help.  Wonder if he was reading this forum around 8:00 😉.

Edited December 30, 2023 by FlyBritishMidland

[May Contain Nuts]

54 minutes ago, Tombo said:

I am fully prepared to admit I am/was a Warne doubter. Things have changed, which I didn't think they would.

I know you'll say "ah! I see! As soon as the results start coming in, you change your tune!! I am very smart!!"

Yes, of course. Because it was and always has been about results and performance. I don't like sprouts but if they suddenly started tasting like chocolate cake I may be inclined to revise my dislike of them.

I am still a long-termist, and I don't believe that what this team was doing under Warne at the start of the season and pretty much all of last season works, and nor do I believe it to be the key to success. Warne however, to his credit, seems to have huge willing to change things that don't work, against everything he had planned on doing. Almost no other football manager I've ever seen does this. Managers and coaches are generally "pigheaded" for want of a better phrase and believe so strongly in their vision that they will double down in the face of failure. Just look at Ange Postecoglou at Spurs who recently spoke about this and said that he will stick to his guns no matter what. If it gets him the sack, then he just wasn't the guy for the job. That mentality is common with football managers and is largely where my doubts about Warne stemmed from.

But he has changed it. We move with far more tempo, play through the middle a little more, mix up our play going long and short at different intervals to find a way to win. I don't know whether it is encouraging for a football manager to be so free and easy with their philosophy and have the ability to say "OK, I got it wrong. We're going to chuck a lot of this in the bin and go back to the drawing board", or whether a manager should stick to their vision no matter what.

Postecoglou described it as a lose-lose situation for a football manager. If fans are calling for a certain change, and you cave to that pressure, you will not get the credit if it goes well. If it goes badly, then you will have sacrificed your philosophy at a cheap price and you will still get the sack. Better to stick to what you believe in and fall on your sword, no?

Regardless, Warne deserves the credit for turning it around and changing things. I will grant him that because it is his credit to have. Takes a lot to swallow your pride and change your mind. However, he also shares the blame for having it wrong in the first place, and the question has to be asked what he will do next if what we are doing now stops working. Will he switch it up again? Can he make the necessary tweaks if it's not something he necessarily believes in? Can he get the players to buy in if it is crystal clear that he hasn't even fully bought in?

Ok look...I'll cut a long story short.

 

We're playing good football and getting good results and I'm happy.

Excellent post.

[Jram]

1 hour ago, Tombo said:

I am fully prepared to admit I am/was a Warne doubter. Things have changed, which I didn't think they would.

I know you'll say "ah! I see! As soon as the results start coming in, you change your tune!! I am very smart!!"

Yes, of course. Because it was and always has been about results and performance. I don't like sprouts but if they suddenly started tasting like chocolate cake I may be inclined to revise my dislike of them.

I am still a long-termist, and I don't believe that what this team was doing under Warne at the start of the season and pretty much all of last season works, and nor do I believe it to be the key to success. Warne however, to his credit, seems to have huge willing to change things that don't work, against everything he had planned on doing. Almost no other football manager I've ever seen does this. Managers and coaches are generally "pigheaded" for want of a better phrase and believe so strongly in their vision that they will double down in the face of failure. Just look at Ange Postecoglou at Spurs who recently spoke about this and said that he will stick to his guns no matter what. If it gets him the sack, then he just wasn't the guy for the job. That mentality is common with football managers and is largely where my doubts about Warne stemmed from.

But he has changed it. We move with far more tempo, play through the middle a little more, mix up our play going long and short at different intervals to find a way to win. I don't know whether it is encouraging for a football manager to be so free and easy with their philosophy and have the ability to say "OK, I got it wrong. We're going to chuck a lot of this in the bin and go back to the drawing board", or whether a manager should stick to their vision no matter what.

Postecoglou described it as a lose-lose situation for a football manager. If fans are calling for a certain change, and you cave to that pressure, you will not get the credit if it goes well. If it goes badly, then you will have sacrificed your philosophy at a cheap price and you will still get the sack. Better to stick to what you believe in and fall on your sword, no?

Regardless, Warne deserves the credit for turning it around and changing things. I will grant him that because it is his credit to have. Takes a lot to swallow your pride and change your mind. However, he also shares the blame for having it wrong in the first place, and the question has to be asked what he will do next if what we are doing now stops working. Will he switch it up again? Can he make the necessary tweaks if it's not something he necessarily believes in? Can he get the players to buy in if it is crystal clear that he hasn't even fully bought in?

Ok look...I'll cut a long story short.

 

We're playing good football and getting good results and I'm happy.

Fair play to you.  I don’t think it’s anything to do with Warne changing anything though. I genuinely think it’s just that 15 games or so was never going to be enough to judge the squad. I think they’re now much fitter and more accustomed to the style so the football is better. I also think we had some rotten luck/decisions in early season and that has started to turn. We’ve also got a lot of fit players- Bird, Hourihane, Thompson, Barks, Wilson are all arguably key players who missed chunks of our inconsistent start through injury 

 

I don’t doubt for a second we will have a poor run between now and May so I’m not going to be smug and say anyone is right or wrong- they might still finish 7th yet

[LeedsCityRam]

5 hours ago, On the Ram Page said:

People forget he is still a relatively young and inexperienced manager, despite already having had 3 promotions (and I know 2 relegations). He is entitled to grow and learn as a manager as most of us do throughout life. He is an intelligent man and I believe he can adapt his management style to whatever circumstances he will find himself in. I could be wrong but sincerely hope not.

I see there's a couple of you posting the 'he's a young, inexperienced manager' line. This is Warne's 8th season in football management & he had more games in charge than many of the outstanding coaches in this division & above (Schumacher, Duff, Manning. McKenna, Rosenior, Mousinho, Maresca, Evatt). Its a distortion of the truth so can we lay this myth this rest please?

p.s he has 3 relegations with Rotherham from the Championship, not 2.

5 hours ago, On the Ram Page said:

This is potentially going to be an extremely difficult transfer window. He will know what he wants to achieve - who he wishes to retain, who he wants to join. Unfortunately, much of it is out of his hands but I hope he has a successful window.

Its a difficult window for everyone - there is nothing particularly onerous about Warne's position compared any of our top 6 rivals unless you're privy to information we're all not aware of? He probably needs some more firepower up top - who doesn't but fundamentally he has a very strong squad at this level. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

49 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

He did thank the fans last night for sticking with the team.  Or at least the intelligent ones, and less intelligent ones would have given the team some stick, which doesn’t help.  Wonder if he was reading this forum around 8:00 😉.

I didn't think that the team as a whole were getting a lot of stick even when 2-0 down.

Wildsmith personally yes, for a particularly dim challenge for the pen.

Most of the other criticism was aimed at the ref for buying lots of soft free kicks?

[On the Ram Page]

6 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I see there's a couple of you posting the 'he's a young, inexperienced manager' line. This is Warne's 8th season in football management & he had more games in charge than many of the outstanding coaches in this division & above (Schumacher, Duff, Manning. McKenna, Rosenior, Mousinho, Maresca, Evatt). Its a distortion of the truth so can we lay this myth this rest please?

p.s he has 3 relegations with Rotherham from the Championship, not 2.

Its a difficult window for everyone - there is nothing particularly onerous about Warne's position compared any of our top 6 rivals unless you're privy to information we're all not aware of? He probably needs some more firepower up top - who doesn't but fundamentally he has a very strong squad at this level. 

Take your points but still think he is relatively inexperienced as a manager. He was appointed Caretaker Manager in Nov 2016 at Rotherham and I am not sure he expecting to take over and fully prepared for that role. He was appointed in Jan 2017 to manage to the end of that season, during which relegation from the Championship was confirmed. Despite the relegation he was appointed Manager for the following season, which indicates to me that he had made an impression. Promotions and relegations then featured. Being appointed Head Coach at Derby is a different kettle of fish to the Rotherham role, with due respect to Rotherham. I am sure he has probably learnt more about football management since being at Derby, than his previous tenure (my assumption). As such I believe he is still relatively “young” as a Manager had has scope to “grow”.

My point about the transfer window relates to keeping our best players, who will be out of contract shortly (not his fault) like Cashin & Bird. Maybe we need the funds from these transfers to be able to get the strikers/midfield players we possibly need. As supporters we don’t know the financial situation at the club - we ONLY DEMAND PROMOTION no matter what it takes. No one can guarantee the players he feels we need will come to Derby or indeed be allowed to by their current club. That’s why it is a difficult window.

I just think he needs to be given some leeway and time to develop himself, the team and the club - especially bearing in mind all the financial constraints we have been under and the decimation of of academy.

 

[On the Ram Page]

7 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I didn't think that the team as a whole were getting a lot of stick even when 2-0 down.

Wildsmith personally yes, for a particularly dim challenge for the pen.

Most of the other criticism was aimed at the ref for buying lots of soft free kicks?

Think you should read the thread again re Bird, Hourahane an Barkhaizen in particular

[CapeTownRams]

8 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

He did thank the fans last night for sticking with the team.  Or at least the intelligent ones, and less intelligent ones would have given the team some stick, which doesn’t help.  Wonder if he was reading this forum around 8:00 😉.

It’s so often almost grudging-sounding thanks accompanied with a pause, a screw-up of the face though…

[Archied]

8 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I see there's a couple of you posting the 'he's a young, inexperienced manager' line. This is Warne's 8th season in football management & he had more games in charge than many of the outstanding coaches in this division & above (Schumacher, Duff, Manning. McKenna, Rosenior, Mousinho, Maresca, Evatt). Its a distortion of the truth so can we lay this myth this rest please?

p.s he has 3 relegations with Rotherham from the Championship, not 2.

Its a difficult window for everyone - there is nothing particularly onerous about Warne's position compared any of our top 6 rivals unless you're privy to information we're all not aware of? He probably needs some more firepower up top - who doesn't but fundamentally he has a very strong squad at this level. 

I’m pretty much the one who started the conversation around warne being young and inexperienced and can tell you it was aimed at the stated put down that he could not cut it in the championship if given a decent budget as he was a one dimensional dinosaur, I don’t believe he is , I believe he is a smart bloke able to look ,listen , learn and adapt 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Chester40]

10 hours ago, sage said:

Thank God no one is being shouted down now

I can see what you did there...

Except that's the whole issue for me.

No one moderately sensible is being shouted down?

No posters were saying give Warne a new 5-year deal, he's the 2nd coming of Clough ...and they still aren't.

Even those trying to say 'can we be more patient' were largely still critical of his style, were saying results weren't great, that we needed an improvement and asking why we weren't playing 4 at the back etc. 

They just weren't making personal attacks,  exaggerating every tiny issue and 'gleefully' sticking the boot in each and every match thread constantly until it was pointless reading it. 

No one can argue the last couple of games have been anything other than very positive.

But a bad result tomorrow and criticism is expected and driving home I will moan as much as the next fan. A run of poor results could see us slip away from the play offs and then I'd be seriously questioning if Warne is the right man. 

I know I'm not the arbiter of what is reasonable, but he needed time to see if results and performances improved - and fortunately that has been proved right FOR NOW. That could change but I personally hope if they do, it will result in more measured and realistic responses this time.

You're entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I just prefer it when it doesn't go to the extreme - where in my head I was moderately supportive of Warne yet on here felt like I was his number 1 fan (apart from maybe @Crewton).

Anyway. I'm boring myself now.

Let's hope it's all irrelevant and we romp the league. Starting tomorrow with a big statement win.

[sage]

11 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

I can see what you did there...

Except that's the whole issue for me.

No one moderately sensible is being shouted down?

No posters were saying give Warne a new 5-year deal, he's the 2nd coming of Clough ...and they still aren't.

Even those trying to say 'can we be more patient' were largely still critical of his style, were saying results weren't great, that we needed an improvement and asking why we weren't playing 4 at the back etc. 

They just weren't making personal attacks,  exaggerating every tiny issue and 'gleefully' sticking the boot in each and every match thread constantly until it was pointless reading it. 

No one can argue the last couple of games have been anything other than very positive.

But a bad result tomorrow and criticism is expected and driving home I will moan as much as the next fan. A run of poor results could see us slip away from the play offs and then I'd be seriously questioning if Warne is the right man. 

I know I'm not the arbiter of what is reasonable, but he needed time to see if results and performances improved - and fortunately that has been proved right FOR NOW. That could change but I personally hope if they do, it will result in more measured and realistic responses this time.

You're entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I just prefer it when it doesn't go to the extreme - where in my head I was moderately supportive of Warne yet on here felt like I was his number 1 fan (apart from maybe @Crewton).

Anyway. I'm boring myself now.

Let's hope it's all irrelevant and we romp the league. Starting tomorrow with a big statement win.

[Sufferingfool]

1 hour ago, caymanram said:

It’s so often almost grudging-sounding thanks accompanied with a pause, a screw-up of the face though…

I can see how this can be read but I think he is trying not to just give throw away platitudes about the support being magnificent etc. He tries to acknowledge that at times it has been critical of the team and support has been divided, as it is on here, and is honest enough to give his view on this. I prefer this.

[Returning ram]

14 hours ago, sage said:

Could you give some examples. I'd be amazed if you found more than 2 people on here.

Just a few that I remember, they also attract a few likes, whilst I agree it's a minority, it did happen.
 

"I’d take a loss to get him gone. Never thought I’d say that would I’m just fed up of it"

"I never want  Derby to  lose  but might have taken that if it guaranteed Warne out…"

"Should I feel really bad for wanting that penalty to go in?"

 

 

 

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, On the Ram Page said:

Take your points but still think he is relatively inexperienced as a manager. He was appointed Caretaker Manager in Nov 2016 at Rotherham and I am not sure he expecting to take over and fully prepared for that role. He was appointed in Jan 2017 to manage to the end of that season, during which relegation from the Championship was confirmed. Despite the relegation he was appointed Manager for the following season, which indicates to me that he had made an impression. Promotions and relegations then featured. Being appointed Head Coach at Derby is a different kettle of fish to the Rotherham role, with due respect to Rotherham. I am sure he has probably learnt more about football management since being at Derby, than his previous tenure (my assumption). As such I believe he is still relatively “young” as a Manager had has scope to “grow”.

My point about the transfer window relates to keeping our best players, who will be out of contract shortly (not his fault) like Cashin & Bird. Maybe we need the funds from these transfers to be able to get the strikers/midfield players we possibly need. As supporters we don’t know the financial situation at the club - we ONLY DEMAND PROMOTION no matter what it takes. No one can guarantee the players he feels we need will come to Derby or indeed be allowed to by their current club. That’s why it is a difficult window.

I just think he needs to be given some leeway and time to develop himself, the team and the club - especially bearing in mind all the financial constraints we have been under and the decimation of of academy.

 

Thanks for clarification from both yourself & @Archied - so its more that you believe his ceiling to be higher than yo-yo Championship/League One as he gets to grip with a more demanding role, rather than managerial inexperience per se. I think we've all seen some evidence of flexibility from Warne in the past couple of months which is encouraging - I still instinctively feel that when Bird & Hourihane leave he will start to revert to type (we saw this to a certain extent when McGoldrick left & the passes seemed to go longer into the final 3rd rather than to feet) but obviously all we can do is speculate at this point. It would be churlish not to recognise that the style has been better recently though.

Regarding the window, yes obviously he can't control Cashin & Bird's situation although we do have the option of an extra year on Cashin so making our negotiating position with Brighton & others a bit stronger. My sense is that we will be a much more attractive destination for incoming players given where we are this season v last (when we were on the fringes of the playoff race with much stronger rivals ahead of us) - if I were Jonson Clarke-Harris for example, I would see a clear role firing the club to an imminent promotion with the obvious potential to establish in the division above & be a 'signature move' for him at this stage of his career. Of course, money is the great unknown but Clowes is a sensible type & will have budgeted for this Jan opportunity I'm sure - I'd be surprised if funds were only available if players were sold first. Again, speculation I accept.

[VulcanRam]

Nothing's changed for me. I said in the poll early season that I'd give him the season before making my mind up and that's still the case. 

We had a great run this time last year and ended up 7th. I feel more confident this season as the league is substantially weaker and we should feel like we can go up automatically. 

I'm more confident because we are playing better football at the moment, and probably the best football since Warne arrived, but's that's only been in the last couple of months. Oxford were poor but we still gifted them two goals and had it within us to win the game. Peterborough tomorrow will be a great marker for where we are, not necessarily in the result but certainly in our performance. 

I'm sure Warne has learned from last season and his disinclination to dip into the January market in case it upset the equilibrium built during a good run. It was a serious error of judgement. 

Confidence and momentum in football is everything - it can come and go in a heartbeat. At the moment its high and we feel we can do no wrong. A couple of defeats, even if we play well, can see it disappear just as quickly.

So well done to the management team for improving things and getting us on a great run. Keep it going!

[BathRam72]

11 hours ago, Tombo said:

I am fully prepared to admit I am/was a Warne doubter. Things have changed, which I didn't think they would.

I know you'll say "ah! I see! As soon as the results start coming in, you change your tune!! I am very smart!!"

Yes, of course. Because it was and always has been about results and performance. I don't like sprouts but if they suddenly started tasting like chocolate cake I may be inclined to revise my dislike of them.

I am still a long-termist, and I don't believe that what this team was doing under Warne at the start of the season and pretty much all of last season works, and nor do I believe it to be the key to success. Warne however, to his credit, seems to have huge willing to change things that don't work, against everything he had planned on doing. Almost no other football manager I've ever seen does this. Managers and coaches are generally "pigheaded" for want of a better phrase and believe so strongly in their vision that they will double down in the face of failure. Just look at Ange Postecoglou at Spurs who recently spoke about this and said that he will stick to his guns no matter what. If it gets him the sack, then he just wasn't the guy for the job. That mentality is common with football managers and is largely where my doubts about Warne stemmed from.

But he has changed it. We move with far more tempo, play through the middle a little more, mix up our play going long and short at different intervals to find a way to win. I don't know whether it is encouraging for a football manager to be so free and easy with their philosophy and have the ability to say "OK, I got it wrong. We're going to chuck a lot of this in the bin and go back to the drawing board", or whether a manager should stick to their vision no matter what.

Postecoglou described it as a lose-lose situation for a football manager. If fans are calling for a certain change, and you cave to that pressure, you will not get the credit if it goes well. If it goes badly, then you will have sacrificed your philosophy at a cheap price and you will still get the sack. Better to stick to what you believe in and fall on your sword, no?

Regardless, Warne deserves the credit for turning it around and changing things. I will grant him that because it is his credit to have. Takes a lot to swallow your pride and change your mind. However, he also shares the blame for having it wrong in the first place, and the question has to be asked what he will do next if what we are doing now stops working. Will he switch it up again? Can he make the necessary tweaks if it's not something he necessarily believes in? Can he get the players to buy in if it is crystal clear that he hasn't even fully bought in?

Ok look...I'll cut a long story short.

 

We're playing good football and getting good results and I'm happy.

I love sprouts

[Archied]

2 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Thanks for clarification from both yourself & @Archied - so its more that you believe his ceiling to be higher than yo-yo Championship/League One as he gets to grip with a more demanding role, rather than managerial inexperience per se. I think we've all seen some evidence of flexibility from Warne in the past couple of months which is encouraging - I still instinctively feel that when Bird & Hourihane leave he will start to revert to type (we saw this to a certain extent when McGoldrick left & the passes seemed to go longer into the final 3rd rather than to feet) but obviously all we can do is speculate at this point. It would be churlish not to recognise that the style has been better recently though.

Regarding the window, yes obviously he can't control Cashin & Bird's situation although we do have the option of an extra year on Cashin so making our negotiating position with Brighton & others a bit stronger. My sense is that we will be a much more attractive destination for incoming players given where we are this season v last (when we were on the fringes of the playoff race with much stronger rivals ahead of us) - if I were Jonson Clarke-Harris for example, I would see a clear role firing the club to an imminent promotion with the obvious potential to establish in the division above & be a 'signature move' for him at this stage of his career. Of course, money is the great unknown but Clowes is a sensible type & will have budgeted for this Jan opportunity I'm sure - I'd be surprised if funds were only available if players were sold first. Again, speculation I accept.

Yep something like that , as pointed out there are a few managers with less experience who have done well so far too and it’s the same for them , they may come from a possession based stance /view on the game they want from they’re teams to play but there will be times when they have to compromise and evolve to get success and or stay in a job , the bit that kept me out of the warne out camp was that I saw bits at times that I liked , I heard bits I liked from warne and it was clear in his words that we wernt the finished article and the team was not playing exactly how he wanted ,

personally I don’t think he will manage a top top side as it’s clear very few young British managers really get that chance these days but I see no reason he can’t evolve into the type of manager that gets to the prem and can keep a club there for a spell with the right attitude and culture in very much the same way I can see no reason a rosenior can’t do the same even though they are quite different in approach, I reckon both would have to take on a bit of the other’s philosophy to get the right blend for that ,

I just fear that even if we go on to win the league this season the warne out push will begin almost right away or certainly pdq if we don’t hit the ground running in the championship 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited December 31, 2023 by Archied

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Yep something like that , as pointed out there are a few managers with less experience who have done well so far too and it’s the same for them , they may come from a possession based stance /view on the game they want from they’re teams to play but there will be times when they have to compromise and evolve to get success and or stay in a job , the bit that kept me out of the warne out camp was that I saw bits at times that I liked , I heard bits I liked from warne and it was clear in his words that we wernt the finished article and the team was not playing exactly how he wanted ,

personally I don’t think he will manage a top top side as it’s clear very few young British managers really get that chance these days but I see no reason he can’t evolve into the type of manager that gets to the prem and can keep a club there for a spell with the right attitude and culture in very much the same way I can see no reason a rosenior can’t do the same even though they are quite different in approach, I reckon both would have to take on a bit of the other’s philosophy to get the right blend for that ,

I just fear that even if we go on to win the league this season the warne out push will begin almost right away or certainly pdq if we don’t hit the ground running in the championship 🤷🏻‍♂️

Good points about compromise & flexibility needed for success - any edge to make teams unpredictable & harder to play against is likely to yield positive results. Even though I was a massive fan of his, I was irritated last year by the constant need of Rosenior's teams to restart play with the keeper instead of mixing it up occasionally - it just invited the obvious press from opposition forwards. Obviously all managers have biases but some form of evolution is necessary - one of the most impressive examples of that in recent times was from Neil Warnock at QPR where he found a way to accommodate Taraabt & Alejandro Faurlin (two players you would not normally associate with his sides) & harnessed their talent to get promotion to the Prem.

With regard to Warne, a key 'bellweather' of increasing flexibility might be how he handles Liam Thompson going forward. Fair to say that other than his energy, Thompson wouldn't be regarded as a stereotypical Warne player but now he has made his 'great leap forward', will Warne utilise him as an regular first team starter at number 10?

Re Championship - I think if Warne takes us up, Clowes would give him a fair crack at the job in the division above. Despite noticeable fan unrest a couple of months ago, Clowes was quick to dampen down any prospect of Warne leaving & despite my wishes to the contrary, I did actually really admire that stance. Clearly we don't ever want to return to the 3rd tier so there would be enormous pressure on Warne to deliver a very different outcome to the Rotherham job in the division above but presumably that's why he dropped down to manage us in the first place. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by LeedsCityRam