At least we still have a club.......yeah but...

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, DiggerB said:

Are you pranking me and @Tyler Durden?

Well it is "all about you" 😉

[angieram]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

Exactly.

We have a far better - and more capable - squad than the Warne supporters are saying.

And Warne was reluctant to play Thommo and Rooney until needs must. He played Sublet out of position.

Similarly he was forced into using 4-4-2 and it was even Forsyth that suggested Waghorn. So much for Warne's in-depth knowledge of footballers' personality given that he thought Waggy would be arrogant.

That's exactly what Sibbo has been in recent seasons - sublet to any position but his own! 

[DiggerB]

46 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Well it is "all about you" 😉

More threads than Saville Row!

[simmoram1995]

I think we are a top ten team not a top six team the current results do not make good reading as it highlights extreme inconsistency 3 wins 3 losses. We need to be stronger , grittier and show the bottle. Our current form is a 12-13th place team if it continues.

anything less than top six this season Warne is gone 

[simmoram1995]

41 minutes ago, angieram said:

That's exactly what Sibbo has been in recent seasons - sublet to any position but his own! 

I think Warne is very good at bulls*****g his way through stuff as tactically he comes across as mediocre  

[The_Sheriff]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Who are these players that are going to play fast, vibrant, passing attacking football?

Méndez Laing, who can’t last 60 minutes and is equal measures frustrating and exciting?

Smith and Hourihane, who can only prosper on the ball when they are given the freedom of the continent?

Sibley and Barkhuizen, who can’t stay fit or find enough consistency to get a place in the team?

Cashin, who only has a sweeping long ball in his locker?

Let’s be honest, we have a squad which is not above this level and isn’t particularly blessed with technically strong players who can play good attacking football against all comers. This is why our play orbited around McGoldrick for 70% of the season previously.

The only one who is really fit for a passing team is Bird, and currently he is injured and come January, he might be on the move.

If you want to see a good passing team, @CornwallRam is right. It will need time, patience and investment.

What a post!

I have no stats to back it up but under warne we always look like scoring i would imagine our xg proves this in comparison to rosenior or rooney or cocu? 

I know i am in the minority but i am happy to be more direct instead of passing sideways and backwards. 

Too many fans dont know the difference between possession and domination/control of a game

[NottsRam77]

4 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Last year was a nightmare. The almost unthinkable nearly happened - we were so close to losing our beloved football club, founder members of the football league, champions under Clough and Mackay, FA cup winners after the war and European Cup semi-finalists.

David Clowes, a genuine fan with the means to do so, rescued the club at the last minute. He himself says it "was close".

Thanks to him, we have a club, our club.

We must learn the lessons of the past. We must not get into the same precarious mess ever again.

But....we can move on. We must move on. We should now look forward. We do not have to merely be content that the club is still in existence.

It's ok to demand more from the manager, the teams on the pitch (not just the first team but especially them).

We should demand exciting, entertaining football that gets results. It does not mean that we won't forever be grateful to David Clowes for saving the club.

It means we want Derby County to once again be a beacon for good football. Attacking football. Positive football. Entertaining football.

That means passing football, intricate moves, running with the ball, creating chances. It doesn't mean sitting back and hoping to score from a corner or a free kick.

I like Paul Warne, the man. But I don't like his tactics. I don't like his desire to play 3-5-2 with the players he has available, I don't like his use of players out of position or not giving the academy players a chance. I don't like the emphasis on set pieces rather than attacking play.

Yes, at least we still have a club.

But we are Derby County. The football should be, must be, ought to be better 🐏

We are derby county, but we have no divine right to anything,

We’re taking our medicine, serving our time for what happened /nearly happened previous.

We will get better , we will flourish again but like any kind of rehabilitation it takes time and wont happen over night 

some fans need to realise this 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by NottsRam77

[ariotofmyown]

It's gonna be a long international break!

[angieram]

19 minutes ago, The_Sheriff said:

What a post!

I have no stats to back it up but under warne we always look like scoring i would imagine our xg proves this in comparison to rosenior or rooney or cocu? 

I know i am in the minority but i am happy to be more direct instead of passing sideways and backwards. 

Too many fans dont know the difference between possession and domination/control of a game

How many times did we look like scoring yesterday? I am struggling to recall a clear chance from open play.

[8Leeds]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Who are these players that are going to play fast, vibrant, passing attacking football?

Méndez Laing, who can’t last 60 minutes and is equal measures frustrating and exciting?

Smith and Hourihane, who can only prosper on the ball when they are given the freedom of the continent?

Sibley and Barkhuizen, who can’t stay fit or find enough consistency to get a place in the team?

Cashin, who only has a sweeping long ball in his locker?

Let’s be honest, we have a squad which is not above this level and isn’t particularly blessed with technically strong players who can play good attacking football against all comers. This is why our play orbited around McGoldrick for 70% of the season previously.

The only one who is really fit for a passing team is Bird, and currently he is injured and come January, he might be on the move.

If you want to see a good passing team, @CornwallRam is right. It will need time, patience and investment.

Weren’t we a good passing side before Liam left? A little too much passing without enough end product but a good passing side none the less.

[HorsforthRam]

22 minutes ago, angieram said:

How many times did we look like scoring yesterday? I am struggling to recall a clear chance from open play.

Never mind creating a chance. From where I was stood, it was painful to watch us trying to make more than 2 passes if a simple pass to a wide player wasn’t on. The fans were quiet, it was all Bolton with the passing options. We lost it so easily making it a physical battle for any balls hit long up front or into the channels 

[Marriot Ram99]

4 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

David Clowes saved our club, but we're still not free of the restrictions caused by administration. We are currently an artificially reduced club. Our turnover, fanbase and history should feed into increased revenue with sponsorship deals and TV appearances. If we'd just been relegated, we would be able, given the right management, to dominate this league.

The problem is that we had 5 players, very few academy players capable of stepping up and serious restrictions on our finances and recruitment. 

Thanks to hard work and commitment from David Clowes, Liam Rosenior and Paul Warne, we are now at a point where we are a 'normal' club again. We have a full squad and the academy has been strengthen. But don't be fooled. We're still not a big Championship club about to boss our way out of League 1.

The calls for passing football are, IMO, naive. You only get promoted by playing passing football if you have a squad full of high quality players that are simply too good for the rest of the division. The restrictions which we've been under have meant that the rebuild has had to be cheap. Quality players aren't cheap. The only way this squad is getting promoted is with spirit, fitness, organisation and pragmatic football. It doesn't matter if we replace Warne tomorrow - trying to pass our way out of this division with this squad would be a disaster. 

I'd also argue that Warne hasn't had any quality academy players to include, so criticising him for not playing them is difficult to justify. 

At this point we need a pragmatic manager. If we replace Warne it will be with someone similar. The restrictions have forced us to build the squad this way and it is logical to give this type of squad this season and next to try for promotion. If that fails, then it will be time to review and maybe bring in a manager who will rebuild with expensive passing players and academy products. By that time the restrictions will be long gone and the size of our club should enable us to be more dominant in the transfer market.

Oxford played us off the park with great passing same with other sides and they have smaller budgets than us. Our finances are no excuse for poor recruitment and poor tactics ,how much are Washington and Bradley on? Bradley is s**** and Washington bang average same with Wilson, and Nelson and these players aren't on pittance. Collins is another who is stealing a wage at times,it's just not having a good scouting set up and poor decision making.

[richinspain]

Yesterday demonstrated exactly the problem we have. Bolton have been developing over several seasons. They have the players to play the system that their manager wants them to play. For the first 20 minutes we didn't get near them, I feared an absolute mauling. Through grit and some good luck (excepting Rooney) we rode the storm, started to play (a bit) and even managed to take the lead. Refereeing decisions shouldn't be used as an excuse, but they certainly had an influence on the game yesterday. Their penalty looked to be borderline in the area. We had two very good shouts for penalties turned down. And to cap it all their winner came from a deflection. We were poor. We were always second best. We got what we deserved.

Now the positives. There aren't many to be fair. We have however played some good football. We've seen some passages of play that have brought gasps of delight. We've won away, scoring 7 goals in the process, at our local rivals and at one of the teams expected to be there abouts at the end of the season.

I was very disappointed with our performance yesterday, but against one of the better teams and with ten men for forty odd minutes (another dubious decision that as always goes against us) it's not the end of the world. We do need to start to improve, start to dominate games. We are however a team cobbled together at zero expense (ignoring wages). Just winning games will be enough for me at the moment. Playing well would be a bonus. We do have to move on from thinking "at least we've got a club". I have no doubt that David Clowes has done that already. I also believe that he knows what the situation is. Let's do all that we can do, continue to support the team and try to help them move on up the table.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

How many times did we look like scoring yesterday? I am struggling to recall a clear chance from open play.

Had very few attempts at goal - with quite a high proportion being late on after Warne had made all the subs.

Only one on target, which frankly seems pathetic even with all the adversity.

[Jourdan]

2 hours ago, 8Leeds said:

Weren’t we a good passing side before Liam left? A little too much passing without enough end product but a good passing side none the less.

How can you be a good passing side if there is no end product? Isn’t one meant to lead to the other? If it is not effective, is it actually good?

In the same way, is our running and pressing under Warne effective? Not always. So I wouldn’t describe us as a good pressing team, particularly. A team that tries it, for sure.

As I remember, much of our ‘good passing’ under Rosenior was in areas where the opposition were happy for us to have the ball and in positions where they knew we couldn’t hurt them.

Had we scored more goals and turned more draws and losses into wins, the feeling would be different. I don’t remember many times where we actually cut teams open with our passing and it led to goals being scored. We actually did more of this under Warne last season.

We created chances under Rosenior, yes, but we also create chances under Warne, just the build up is different and frustrating in its own way.

[CornwallRam]

5 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

A very long post but is the gist we have to play hoof ball 🤔

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have never noticed a Warne team playing hoofball, other than in desperation in the final five minutes. IMO, Warne's aim is to use movement and one/two touch passing to get the ball forward as quickly as possible. It's direct, but not exactly 1980s Wimbledon and Watford.

[DRBee]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Who are these players that are going to play fast, vibrant, passing attacking football?

Méndez Laing, who can’t last 60 minutes and is equal measures frustrating and exciting?

Smith and Hourihane, who can only prosper on the ball when they are given the freedom of the continent?

Sibley and Barkhuizen, who can’t stay fit or find enough consistency to get a place in the team?

Cashin, who only has a sweeping long ball in his locker?

Let’s be honest, we have a squad which is not above this level and isn’t particularly blessed with technically strong players who can play good attacking football against all comers. This is why our play orbited around McGoldrick for 70% of the season previously.

The only one who is really fit for a passing team is Bird, and currently he is injured and come January, he might be on the move.

If you want to see a good passing team, @CornwallRam is right. It will need time, patience and investment.

If you haven't noticed Hourihane pass the ball you have been asleep. But what you totally ignore is that the players you mention did pass the ball under Rosenior. (He wasn't sacked due to poor results.) You can't have if passing game if the players don't know who is playing where from one match to the next. For the last six months, even allowing for injuries,  there has not been enough consistency in formation and selection.

[hintonsboots]

As food for thought during the international break . Jim Smith deployed 352 at QPR for the first time in 1987 and then had great success at Derby, albeit with a quality sweeper in the side ( Stimac or Taribo West). Can you see Warne and Hourihane replicating this photo at the end of the season ?

[richinspain]

49 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

As food for thought during the international break . Jim Smith deployed 352 at QPR for the first time in 1987 and then had great success at Derby, albeit with a quality sweeper in the side ( Stimac or Taribo West). Can you see Warne and Hourihane replicating this photo at the end of the season ?

No. We no longer play at the BBG 😢

[8Leeds]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

How can you be a good passing side if there is no end product? Isn’t one meant to lead to the other? If it is not effective, is it actually good?

In the same way, is our running and pressing under Warne effective? Not always. So I wouldn’t describe us as a good pressing team, particularly. A team that tries it, for sure.

As I remember, much of our ‘good passing’ under Rosenior was in areas where the opposition were happy for us to have the ball and in positions where they knew we couldn’t hurt them.

Had we scored more goals and turned more draws and losses into wins, the feeling would be different. I don’t remember many times where we actually cut teams open with our passing and it led to goals being scored. We actually did more of this under Warne last season.

We created chances under Rosenior, yes, but we also create chances under Warne, just the build up is different and frustrating in its own way.

Well yeah, passing isn’t just about scoring, though it helps, it’s about controlling the tempo of the game and having hold of the ball reduces the chance your opponent will score 

He’d had the team for pre season and recruited almost an entirely new squad. He had them moving the ball well but at times not with enough pace or positivity to open teams up. Your point was that it takes time to become a good passing side, nothing was said about it leading to end product 😂.

Liams record of 7/2/3 for a newly put together side was very good all things considered. If he’d of turned more draws and loses into wins he’d of had had a near perfect record wouldn’t he. 

I understand why Clowes made the decision he did but I would have liked to have seen what would have happened if Liam had had the full season. Always seemed a bit odd that he was in charge of recruiting a new team, to play in a certain way, only to be replaced shortly after by a manager with an entirely different way of playing which our squad wasn’t set up for.