At least we still have a club.......yeah but...

[IslandExile]

Last year was a nightmare. The almost unthinkable nearly happened - we were so close to losing our beloved football club, founder members of the football league, champions under Clough and Mackay, FA cup winners after the war and European Cup semi-finalists.

David Clowes, a genuine fan with the means to do so, rescued the club at the last minute. He himself says it "was close".

Thanks to him, we have a club, our club.

We must learn the lessons of the past. We must not get into the same precarious mess ever again.

But....we can move on. We must move on. We should now look forward. We do not have to merely be content that the club is still in existence.

It's ok to demand more from the manager, the teams on the pitch (not just the first team but especially them).

We should demand exciting, entertaining football that gets results. It does not mean that we won't forever be grateful to David Clowes for saving the club.

It means we want Derby County to once again be a beacon for good football. Attacking football. Positive football. Entertaining football.

That means passing football, intricate moves, running with the ball, creating chances. It doesn't mean sitting back and hoping to score from a corner or a free kick.

I like Paul Warne, the man. But I don't like his tactics. I don't like his desire to play 3-5-2 with the players he has available, I don't like his use of players out of position or not giving the academy players a chance. I don't like the emphasis on set pieces rather than attacking play.

Yes, at least we still have a club.

But we are Derby County. The football should be, must be, ought to be better 🐏

[LazloW]

[IslandExile]

Sorry, yes another thread, but read carefully - these topics are from different perspectives: What got us into this mess; when Warne should be judged and this one, moving on from just being grateful about having a club.

My point being that it is not being "entitled" to want better football, simply because we came close to extinction.

[Tyler Durden]

[CornwallRam]

David Clowes saved our club, but we're still not free of the restrictions caused by administration. We are currently an artificially reduced club. Our turnover, fanbase and history should feed into increased revenue with sponsorship deals and TV appearances. If we'd just been relegated, we would be able, given the right management, to dominate this league.

The problem is that we had 5 players, very few academy players capable of stepping up and serious restrictions on our finances and recruitment. 

Thanks to hard work and commitment from David Clowes, Liam Rosenior and Paul Warne, we are now at a point where we are a 'normal' club again. We have a full squad and the academy has been strengthen. But don't be fooled. We're still not a big Championship club about to boss our way out of League 1.

The calls for passing football are, IMO, naive. You only get promoted by playing passing football if you have a squad full of high quality players that are simply too good for the rest of the division. The restrictions which we've been under have meant that the rebuild has had to be cheap. Quality players aren't cheap. The only way this squad is getting promoted is with spirit, fitness, organisation and pragmatic football. It doesn't matter if we replace Warne tomorrow - trying to pass our way out of this division with this squad would be a disaster. 

I'd also argue that Warne hasn't had any quality academy players to include, so criticising him for not playing them is difficult to justify. 

At this point we need a pragmatic manager. If we replace Warne it will be with someone similar. The restrictions have forced us to build the squad this way and it is logical to give this type of squad this season and next to try for promotion. If that fails, then it will be time to review and maybe bring in a manager who will rebuild with expensive passing players and academy products. By that time the restrictions will be long gone and the size of our club should enable us to be more dominant in the transfer market.

[angieram]

35 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

David Clowes saved our club, but we're still not free of the restrictions caused by administration. We are currently an artificially reduced club. Our turnover, fanbase and history should feed into increased revenue with sponsorship deals and TV appearances. If we'd just been relegated, we would be able, given the right management, to dominate this league.

The problem is that we had 5 players, very few academy players capable of stepping up and serious restrictions on our finances and recruitment. 

Thanks to hard work and commitment from David Clowes, Liam Rosenior and Paul Warne, we are now at a point where we are a 'normal' club again. We have a full squad and the academy has been strengthen. But don't be fooled. We're still not a big Championship club about to boss our way out of League 1.

The calls for passing football are, IMO, naive. You only get promoted by playing passing football if you have a squad full of high quality players that are simply too good for the rest of the division. The restrictions which we've been under have meant that the rebuild has had to be cheap. Quality players aren't cheap. The only way this squad is getting promoted is with spirit, fitness, organisation and pragmatic football. It doesn't matter if we replace Warne tomorrow - trying to pass our way out of this division with this squad would be a disaster. 

I'd also argue that Warne hasn't had any quality academy players to include, so criticising him for not playing them is difficult to justify. 

At this point we need a pragmatic manager. If we replace Warne it will be with someone similar. The restrictions have forced us to build the squad this way and it is logical to give this type of squad this season and next to try for promotion. If that fails, then it will be time to review and maybe bring in a manager who will rebuild with expensive passing players and academy products. By that time the restrictions will be long gone and the size of our club should enable us to be more dominant in the transfer market.

In  that case, he really needs to get rid of the rest of our football playing squad, because Hourihane, Mendez-Laing, Bird, Cashin, Thommo, Sibbs have no future under that style of play. 

[BramcoteRam84]

While I agree with some of the sentiments of the OP, why do we need to do this dance every time we lose? Not on this forum particularly but definitely on Twitter one week it’s HMS piss the league next week relegation fodder the next. It’s becoming tiresome.

I didn’t follow the game yesterday stats wise it looked like we parked the bus first half, but who is to say without the red card we’d have taken over the game in the second half and won it? Playing nearly a whole half with 10 men when at 1-1 is a significant enough mitigating factor to just ignore this game and move on to the next one. Not to mention sounds like a very fortunate goal won it and a horrific injury for Jake which is a body blow to the lad and to us.

Weve had a pretty tough start with the fixtures and we’re in the mix in what is going to be a wide open league this season.

[IslandExile]

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

In  that case, he really needs to get rid of the rest of our football playing squad, because Hourihane, Mendez-Laing, Bird, Cashin, Thommo, Sibbs have no future under that style of play. 

Exactly.

We have a far better - and more capable - squad than the Warne supporters are saying.

And Warne was reluctant to play Thommo and Rooney until needs must. He played Sublet out of position.

Similarly he was forced into using 4-4-2 and it was even Forsyth that suggested Waghorn. So much for Warne's in-depth knowledge of footballers' personality given that he thought Waggy would be arrogant.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

While I agree with some of the sentiments of the OP, why do we need to do this dance every time we lose? Not on this forum particularly but definitely on Twitter one week it’s HMS piss the league next week relegation fodder the next. It’s becoming tiresome.

I didn’t follow the game yesterday stats wise it looked like we parked the bus first half, but who is to say without the red card we’d have taken over the game in the second half and won it? Playing nearly a whole half with 10 men when at 1-1 is a significant enough mitigating factor to just ignore this game and move on to the next one. Not to mention sounds like a very fortunate goal won it and a horrific injury for Jake which is a body blow to the lad and to us.

Weve had a pretty tough start with the fixtures and we’re in the mix in what is going to be a wide open league this season.

Why couldn't we play better than we did both before and after the sending off?

[CornwallRam]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

In  that case, he really needs to get rid of the rest of our football playing squad, because Hourihane, Mendez-Laing, Bird, Cashin, Thommo, Sibbs have no future under that style of play. 

That's a bit of an oversimplification. Even with a direct style we need attacking players. Formation changes will suit some players and reduce the effectiveness of others, but generally good players can play direct football if their attitude is right.

OK, the ball players will need strong, aggressive and mobile players around them to play pragmatic football, but some are always needed.

[IslandExile]

3 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

why do we need to do this dance every time we lose?

I don't think you were aiming at me specifically but a few of us have been expressing our "concern" about Warne for some time, win or lose.

My post was because there's a reaction to any criticism of Warne that we must remember what we've been through. Boy, oh, boy we do. We will never forget that but it doesn't mean that, now, we can't want to progress.

[EraniosSocks]

I repeat this statement a lot to people at work. I get excited of the thought of going to pride park watching Derby and thinking “we will win this one” this will be the springboard of the season”. But within 10 minutes it’s turgid football and with a system that does not suit us at all. 
 

I get Paul Warne is a prolific league one winner and that is the aim, but I just want to pay for football that I’d rather enjoy rather than us poo housing a win. Peterborough away and Burton to be fair flattered us., And yes I’m awaiting the comment of “pay for another football team if you want to watch good football” .
 

Yes we are league one but I just want to see us being on the front foot for once and taking the game to the opposition, with the quality we have I feel sorry for the players that they don’t have the opportunity to express themselves, it feels like we have been trained to just run all game and counter when we can (if the balls ever on the floor anyways)

[DiggerB]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

Last year was a nightmare. The almost unthinkable nearly happened - we were so close to losing our beloved football club, founder members of the football league, champions under Clough and Mackay, FA cup winners after the war and European Cup semi-finalists.

David Clowes, a genuine fan with the means to do so, rescued the club at the last minute. He himself says it "was close".

Thanks to him, we have a club, our club.

We must learn the lessons of the past. We must not get into the same precarious mess ever again.

But....we can move on. We must move on. We should now look forward. We do not have to merely be content that the club is still in existence.

It's ok to demand more from the manager, the teams on the pitch (not just the first team but especially them).

We should demand exciting, entertaining football that gets results. It does not mean that we won't forever be grateful to David Clowes for saving the club.

It means we want Derby County to once again be a beacon for good football. Attacking football. Positive football. Entertaining football.

That means passing football, intricate moves, running with the ball, creating chances. It doesn't mean sitting back and hoping to score from a corner or a free kick.

I like Paul Warne, the man. But I don't like his tactics. I don't like his desire to play 3-5-2 with the players he has available, I don't like his use of players out of position or not giving the academy players a chance. I don't like the emphasis on set pieces rather than attacking play.

Yes, at least we still have a club.

But we are Derby County. The football should be, must be, ought to be better 🐏

Are you pranking me and @Tyler Durden?

[Blondest Goat]

9 minutes ago, EraniosSocks said:

I repeat this statement a lot to people at work. I get excited of the thought of going to pride park watching Derby and thinking “we will win this one” this will be the springboard of the season”. But within 10 minutes it’s turgid football and with a system that does not suit us at all. 
 

I get Paul Warne is a prolific league one winner and that is the aim, but I just want to pay for football that I’d rather enjoy rather than us poo housing a win. Peterborough away and Burton to be fair flattered us., And yes I’m awaiting the comment of “pay for another football team if you want to watch good football” .
 

Yes we are league one but I just want to see us being on the front foot for once and taking the game to the opposition, with the quality we have I feel sorry for the players that they don’t have the opportunity to express themselves, it feels like we have been trained to just run all game and counter when we can (if the balls ever on the floor anyways)

Imagine how the lad Elliot must feel.  Could've been playing for his boyhood club in a 5 0 win in the championship and had to sit and watch the dross we served up.  Must think he's joined a right bunch of cloggers.  

[Jourdan]

Who are these players that are going to play fast, vibrant, passing attacking football?

Méndez Laing, who can’t last 60 minutes and is equal measures frustrating and exciting?

Smith and Hourihane, who can only prosper on the ball when they are given the freedom of the continent?

Sibley and Barkhuizen, who can’t stay fit or find enough consistency to get a place in the team?

Cashin, who only has a sweeping long ball in his locker?

Let’s be honest, we have a squad which is not above this level and isn’t particularly blessed with technically strong players who can play good attacking football against all comers. This is why our play orbited around McGoldrick for 70% of the season previously.

The only one who is really fit for a passing team is Bird, and currently he is injured and come January, he might be on the move.

If you want to see a good passing team, @CornwallRam is right. It will need time, patience and investment.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

Last year was a nightmare. The almost unthinkable nearly happened - we were so close to losing our beloved football club, founder members of the football league, champions under Clough and Mackay, FA cup winners after the war and European Cup semi-finalists.

David Clowes, a genuine fan with the means to do so, rescued the club at the last minute. He himself says it "was close".

Thanks to him, we have a club, our club.

We must learn the lessons of the past. We must not get into the same precarious mess ever again.

But....we can move on. We must move on. We should now look forward. We do not have to merely be content that the club is still in existence.

It's ok to demand more from the manager, the teams on the pitch (not just the first team but especially them).

We should demand exciting, entertaining football that gets results. It does not mean that we won't forever be grateful to David Clowes for saving the club.

It means we want Derby County to once again be a beacon for good football. Attacking football. Positive football. Entertaining football.

That means passing football, intricate moves, running with the ball, creating chances. It doesn't mean sitting back and hoping to score from a corner or a free kick.

I like Paul Warne, the man. But I don't like his tactics. I don't like his desire to play 3-5-2 with the players he has available, I don't like his use of players out of position or not giving the academy players a chance. I don't like the emphasis on set pieces rather than attacking play.

Yes, at least we still have a club.

But we are Derby County. The football should be, must be, ought to be better 🐏

We can’t keep dwelling on being thankful we have a football club otherwise we run the risk of just being in existence. 
 

We need to become great again so that we don’t get anywhere near the last 3-4 years. We’re only going to do that to strive to be the best and that’s not in league one. 
 

I’m not buying all this we have to be thankful anymore. We’re a business and businesses need to be successful otherwise they go stale and a club like Derby can’t afford to do that. 
 

We have 30k crowds because supporters have stuck by the club. That support from a good number will dwindle unfortunately so we need to do something to keep them entertained. And right now, the team aren’t giving them supporters anything to cheer about. The only way that will change is by winning games and getting out of the league. 
 

 

[BramcoteRam84]

10 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I don't think you were aiming at me specifically but a few of us have been expressing our "concern" about Warne for some time, win or lose.

My post was because there's a reaction to any criticism of Warne that we must remember what we've been through. Boy, oh, boy we do. We will never forget that but it doesn't mean that, now, we can't want to progress.

I did mean to clarify my post wasn’t aimed at you per se more at the Twitterati and some on here who keep starting these thread, appreciate your different take in terms of what we should be demanding as a club fan base and i agree with most of what you said. 

My point is section of our fan base have gone way too early on Warne IMO and we need to be assessing where are in another 4-6 games. We’ve had 11 signings in, they need to gel, we’ve also had appalling luck with injuries so far this season.

However I agree with you that the remember we’ve still got a club argument doesn’t really wash anymore. Yes we still have some restrictions that is clear but think this season more than any other there isn’t any stand out teams. We have an excellent opportunity. Personally I think Warne can get us out of this league, the debate then is can he get us competing at the sharp end of the championship.
 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

David Clowes saved our club, but we're still not free of the restrictions caused by administration. We are currently an artificially reduced club. Our turnover, fanbase and history should feed into increased revenue with sponsorship deals and TV appearances. If we'd just been relegated, we would be able, given the right management, to dominate this league.

The problem is that we had 5 players, very few academy players capable of stepping up and serious restrictions on our finances and recruitment. 

Thanks to hard work and commitment from David Clowes, Liam Rosenior and Paul Warne, we are now at a point where we are a 'normal' club again. We have a full squad and the academy has been strengthen. But don't be fooled. We're still not a big Championship club about to boss our way out of League 1.

The calls for passing football are, IMO, naive. You only get promoted by playing passing football if you have a squad full of high quality players that are simply too good for the rest of the division. The restrictions which we've been under have meant that the rebuild has had to be cheap. Quality players aren't cheap. The only way this squad is getting promoted is with spirit, fitness, organisation and pragmatic football. It doesn't matter if we replace Warne tomorrow - trying to pass our way out of this division with this squad would be a disaster. 

I'd also argue that Warne hasn't had any quality academy players to include, so criticising him for not playing them is difficult to justify. 

At this point we need a pragmatic manager. If we replace Warne it will be with someone similar. The restrictions have forced us to build the squad this way and it is logical to give this type of squad this season and next to try for promotion. If that fails, then it will be time to review and maybe bring in a manager who will rebuild with expensive passing players and academy products. By that time the restrictions will be long gone and the size of our club should enable us to be more dominant in the transfer market.

A very long post but is the gist we have to play hoof ball 🤔

[BramcoteRam84]

9 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Imagine how the lad Elliot must feel.  Could've been playing for his boyhood club in a 5 0 win in the championship and had to sit and watch the dross we served up.  Must think he's joined a right bunch of cloggers.  

He’s probably thinking I can really make a positive difference to this team

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

He’s probably thinking I can really make a positive difference to this team

...playing at RFB!