TomTom92 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Depends on what you mean by “drops a stinker”. I have said only this morning that we need to recognise all the hard work he puts in but hard work alone shouldn’t be enough to exclude any player from fair and reasonable criticism. If he continues to work hard but misses a load of sitters or gets himself needlessly sent off in a critical game them I don’t see why we shouldn’t discuss his performance before the season he is out. Fair and reasonable criticism doesn’t mean we aren’t getting behind him. Same with any player. Fair enough I take your point, but ultimately if he doesn’t score another goal this season, is that his fault? Or the clubs for relying on him solely? I think discussions around his season and his future and maybe a review of his time here will be a lot more fruitful. I was just surprised to see this topic growing in posts when it’s irrelevant whether people like him or not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerphilly Ram Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said: Yes, a penalty is worth the same as any other goal, I never said otherwise. Do you not agree the player who is on penalties generally gets more goals as a result? If Hourihane was on pens he would be on more goals this season and Collins on less. That's all I'm saying. I do agree, but again in a squad of many and a side of 11 players on the pitch there’s normally a reason that player has been given the responsibility for penalties. I just don’t buy that because someone takes and scores penalties that should somehow be dismissed as part of their skill set and ability, or looked down upon which is the tone of certain posts. James Collins has scored a number of important goals in our season so far, does a lot of work off the ball, does a lot of work defensively, and in my opinion doesn’t deserve the sneering of certain fans or posters. He’s a player, with a ram on his shirt giving his all for the team and to earn his bread, I don’t get what’s not to like, but that’s my opinion and others of course are welcome to theirs. As some have said, this has turned into a pointless back and forth where clearly no party is going to budge their view so I respect the views of you and @Chris_Martin and disagree with them. 🍻 MickD, DCFC Kicks, Archied and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, TomTom92 said: Fair enough I take your point, but ultimately if he doesn’t score another goal this season, is that his fault? Or the clubs for relying on him solely? I think discussions around his season and his future and maybe a review of his time here will be a lot more fruitful. I was just surprised to see this topic growing in posts when it’s irrelevant whether people like him or not now. Surely that all depends on the circumstances of him not scoring another goal. Him missing chances and the club relying on him solely are different issues. It’s not his fault that we don’t have enough striker opinions but equally it’s not the clubs fault if good chances were arriving at his feet or head and he kept missing them. I think you’re confusing the team not scoring enough goals (which may not be Collin’s fault if he’s chipping in his “share” but the team are over relying on him) and him not scoring enough goals or another goal (which may be down to him if they were good goal scoring opportunities and for which he could be criticised). Edited February 3 by Tamworthram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, ram59 said: I've always judged Collins on what he brings to the team as a whole. I am very happy with Collins this season but the above can't be the criterion on which he is judged cos he has a very specific role in scoring goals with our current squad. If he ain't scoring he's failing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Just now, DRBee said: I am very happy with Collins this season but the above can't be the criterion on which he is judged cos he has a very specific role in scoring goals with our current squad. If he ain't scoring he's failing.. I think Collins’ support play is underrated. He lays the ball off quite well. Earlier in the season he wasn’t taking up good positions in the box. He still doesn’t at times, being the wrong side of his defender or the keeper. I hope he will learn from his goal against Cheltenham where he dropped back a couple of paces to find the space for his volley. He has surprised me in the past few weeks and I hope he will continue to score goals. Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 If Collins can stay fit and if he can continue to score goals and if he manages to lead us to promotion, the bloke should be given Rooneys key to the city. Attempting to tackle him should be a red card offence between now and May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyAleMan Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 9 hours ago, Chris_Martin said: how is that absolute rubbish? It's a fact that taking penalties inflates your performance stats, not just the goal tally. It's also a fact he is 54th in the shooting stats for league one players. I am talking about the season as a whole, up until last week or so we still had other forwards fit. John-Jules, Washington, & Waghorn all have better np data for most metrics this season (also a fact) I will say it again COLLIN IS OUR NUMBER 9 AND HAVING A GOOD SEASON, BORE OFF. PENALTIES ARE GOALS. Walkley Ram, CapeTownRams, Premier ram and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said: in a squad of many and a side of 11 players on the pitch there’s normally a reason that player has been given the responsibility for penalties Exactly this The fact that he's trusted to be the penalty taker surely counts in his favour, and somewhat diminishes the stat-pad argument. There are or have been plenty of teams where their main striker isn't the designated penalty taker, and I have in the past seen people use this as something to criticise the striker for, ie 'he's a good striker but only with instinctive finishes, useless when he has to use his brain or the situation requires composure' so some credit for taking them is warranted. MickD, Caerphilly Ram and archram 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, Tamworthram said: Surely that all depends on the circumstances of him not scoring another goal. Him missing chances and the club relying on him solely are different issues. It’s not his fault that we don’t have enough striker opinions but equally it’s not the clubs fault if good chances were arriving at his feet or head and he kept missing them. I think you’re confusing the team not scoring enough goals (which may not be Collin’s fault if he’s chipping in his “share” but the team are over relying on him) and him not scoring enough goals or another goal (which may be down to him if they were good goal scoring opportunities and for which he could be criticised). Im not saying he’s free from criticism but I do think he’s been unfairly critiqued at times this season. Last year he underperformed and I had no hope that he would come good. However, this season he’s pulling his weight at the very least. I guess it’s a forum and everyone’s entitled to post on who and what they like. But I was just surprised to see his ability under the microscope when we’ve got players who have contributed far less and seem to go under the radar. archram and MickD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 He's incredibly hard working, great pro and vital to our hopes this season ..hw does frustrate the f*** out of me by being offside so much. Wouldn't mind if he played on the shoulder and was pacy, trying to get a goal.. generally it feels like he's just not looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerB Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I can imagine Collo will be furious when he’s listed as the club’s top goal-scorer come May? Comrade 86 and Caerphilly Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Buxton's Bat Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 10 hours ago, Chris_Martin said: how is that absolute rubbish? It's a fact that taking penalties inflates your performance stats, not just the goal tally. It's also a fact he is 54th in the shooting stats for league one players. I am talking about the season as a whole, up until last week or so we still had other forwards fit. John-Jules, Washington, & Waghorn all have better np data for most metrics this season (also a fact) Collins is outperforming his xg which does account for penalties being a good chance to score. Genuine question….do you go to matches? The reason I say it is that Rams Tv, Radio Derby and text updates don’t show runs that aren’t fed, lung busting pressing and general shithousery that winds up defenders and ultimately leads to mistakes, goals. Your point about other dcfc strikers is / was irrelevant…. because they’re hardly ever fit. Collins -1982 mins TJJ - 337 mins MW -664 mins CW -497 I’ve taken our minutes against kids and pensioners so these are real man minutes. MickD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I think his upturn in scoring rate has coincided with him getting into the penalty area for when the ball comes in, instead if spending too much time outside the area chasing the ball. He deserves praise for making the adjustment! It has also come at the sane time that we started using the midfield a little more and playing with the ball closer to the ground instead if the players needing a stepladder to even see how high the cross had been. Keep it going, James! Walkley Ram, MickD and Jackal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 02/02/2024 at 01:36, Chris_Martin said: Have you ever wondered why me and others are criticising him? If he was really doing that well why would anyone need to defend him? I remember when I was regularly defending Chris Martin from criticism from a few posters under Mac1.... Rev, angieram, FlyBritishMidland and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 8 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said: Exactly this The fact that he's trusted to be the penalty taker surely counts in his favour, and somewhat diminishes the stat-pad argument. There are or have been plenty of teams where their main striker isn't the designated penalty taker, and I have in the past seen people use this as something to criticise the striker for, ie 'he's a good striker but only with instinctive finishes, useless when he has to use his brain or the situation requires composure' so some credit for taking them is warranted. At one point we had a spell were Sammon, Russell, Ward and Bryson missed like 7 of 9. Don’t think Martin was particularly brilliant at them either. The average across football is 3 out of 4 are scored. They’re not THAT easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 hours ago, rynny said: I remember when I was regularly defending Chris Martin from criticism from a few posters under Mac1.... Hahahahaha Ninos, Pearson and Toddy 😂 angieram, Van der MoodHoover, rynny and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 minutes ago, cannable said: Hahahahaha Ninos, Pearson and Toddy 😂 Comrade 86, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta, angieram and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Well done Collo, well deserved…oh ‘Ang on a minute… Edited February 9 by Ellafella Day, Leicester Ram, RoyMac5 and 2 others 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 26 minutes ago, Ellafella said: Well done Collo, well deserved…oh ‘Ang on a minute… Godammit! Oh, what might have been, eh! #Once a ram, but ain't not no more. 👀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 03/02/2024 at 01:53, Chris_Martin said: how is that absolute rubbish? It's a fact that taking penalties inflates your performance stats, not just the goal tally. It's also a fact he is 54th in the shooting stats for league one players. I am talking about the season as a whole, up until last week or so we still had other forwards fit. John-Jules, Washington, & Waghorn all have better np data for most metrics this season (also a fact) Presumably then you agree that David Lowe is Derby County's most successful manager of all time because the stats show he has a 100% win record. He might be 54th in the shooting stats but the important on is that he's 7th equal in the top goalscorer stats. That's ok. He's doing a good job. Anyway, all this proves is that stats are meaningless without context. Grimbeard and MickD 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account.
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now