Radio Derby all in for Warne tonight

[Ghost of Clough]

26 minutes ago, sage said:

I'm roughly in agreement with this. 

I'm in the it was mistake to appoint him but we have to let this play out now camp. 

It comes down to this...

Almost no one in the squad suits his style of football and we are in an embargo so are limited in the transfer market especially in the Jan window, so I fail to see any scope for major improvement this season. 

It's a stick or twist decision. Sticking with Warne will cause a lot of damage to what we have left after years of mismanagement. The academy graduates in the first team will leave to Championship sides, and we'll go in to next season with just Wildsmith, Mendez-Laing, Barkhuizen, Hourihane and Collins from the current squad. All the investment in the academy will be wasted as none will be suited to Warne's style. Attendances will dwindle this season, and ST sales will be lower for next season. Academy recruitment will be damaged as youngsters won't see a pathway to the first team anymore.

The first team will be set back at least 1 year, more likely 2. The academy will go back to 2008 standard.

[sage]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It's a stick or twist decision. Sticking with Warne will cause a lot of damage to what we have left after years of mismanagement. The academy graduates in the first team will leave to Championship sides, and we'll go in to next season with just Wildsmith, Mendez-Laing, Barkhuizen, Hourihane and Collins from the current squad. All the investment in the academy will be wasted as none will be suited to Warne's style. Attendances will dwindle this season, and ST sales will be lower for next season. Academy recruitment will be damaged as youngsters won't see a pathway to the first team anymore.

The first team will be set back at least 1 year, more likely 2. The academy will go back to 2008 standard.

I would only roll with it for this seaaon. As soon as its obvious we aren't going up, I'd get rid for the reasons you have stated

[Srg]

Just now, sage said:

I would only roll with it for this seaaon. As soon as its obvious we aren't going up, I'd get rid for the reasons you have stated

So you would give him a January window, which is notoriously tough to do business, especially with no money and restrictions, and that’s it? Pointless appointing him to begin with. I’d suggest we’d have to be going down again this season for this to happen. 

[sage]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

So you would give him a January window, which is notoriously tough to do business, especially with no money and restrictions, and that’s it? Pointless appointing him to begin with. I’d suggest we’d have to be going down again this season for this to happen. 

I did say I wouldn't have appointed him. However having said if he takes us up then fine. 

However one season hopefully  isn't enough to chnage the fabric of the club to thr detriment. 

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

I did say I wouldn't have appointed him. However having said if he takes us up then fine. 

However one season hopefully  isn't enough to chnage the fabric of the club to thr detriment. 

That's the root of the issue though.  Changing the fabric of the club is what Warne needs to do to get his method to work.  I've been speaking to some Rotherham fans on another forum, and they openly say that we will do absolutely nothing until Warne has had a full preseason with the players, as his approach is so based on fitness.  And given our truncated preseason, the issue is even more acute here.  So if you believe in Warne, you have to give him 2+ seasons to change the entire structure of the club, and you have to be willing to accept that if it doesn't work, it will take another manager 2+ years to change it back.  If we aren't prepared to potentially write off ~4 seasons, then there's no point even giving Warne the rest of this season.

I'm pretty sure I've made my position on the matter pretty clear elsewhere in the thread.

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

I did say I wouldn't have appointed him. However having said if he takes us up then fine. 

However one season hopefully  isn't enough to chnage the fabric of the club to thr detriment. 

Have you given up on Warne being able to adapt to the situation at Derby as he found it (ie playing squad and academy along with staff already at club such as Wassall ,and Buxton etc etc ) or do you think it’s a lost cause with 3 at the back his preferred system at any costs 
 

 

[PistoldPete]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

How long did we give Pearson? Me I'm really jittery now, he came across well, he's got experience and he talks the talk. But... starting to get a bit worried, no real signs of 'compromise' and some 'odd' comments about quite a few players. #nervous  As others have said this isn't 'siege mentality' 'backs to the wall' Rotherham.

Yes what was he saying about Chester .. strange that he got a calf injury ? Why is it strange , players get injured. 

[Crewton]

I think the impression that we've suddenly become a "hoof ball" team is exaggerated. The stats certainly don't bear this out. The proportion of long balls in Rosenior games was 10-15%, in Warne's it's 15-20%. DCFC are still in the lower quartile for % of long balls in games. We're still a short passing team by the standards of this division. It seems to me that the transformation has been too sudden for some, when all they really wanted was an end to mandatory playing out from the back and faster transitions (and instant promotion in some cases). I suspect that if Warne had managed to win all the home games but lost or drawn all the away games, the complaints about style would be more peripheral, but unless we're storming any division we're in bar the PL, any manager's style is duty bound to be compared to McClaren October 2013 - February 2015. That's the new DCFC curse. 

I think, unfortunately, for the mood of a section of the fans at least, Saturday becomes a must win game for Warne. The mounting injury list doesn't help either, but if he's wise he'll park his principles and go with what worked better in the second half on Tuesday and opt for evolution rather than revolution. 

[Anag Ram]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes what was he saying about Chester .. strange that he got a calf injury ? Why is it strange , players get injured. 

I think he said something along the lines of Curtis and Jason’s injuries being fair enough because they were knocks but Barkhuisen and Chester’s being disappointing as they had felt something go. The implication was either a lack of fitness or an easy way out.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

I think the impression that we've suddenly become a "hoof ball" team is exaggerated. The stats certainly don't bear this out. The proportion of long balls in Rosenior games was 10-15%, in Warne's it's 15-20%. DCFC are still in the lower quartile for % of long balls in games. We're still a short passing team by the standards of this division. It seems to me that the transformation has been too sudden for some, when all they really wanted was an end to mandatory playing out from the back and faster transitions (and instant promotion in some cases). I suspect that if Warne had managed to win all the home games but lost or drawn all the away games, the complaints about style would be more peripheral, but unless we're storming any division we're in bar the PL, any manager's style is duty bound to be compared to McClaren October 2013 - February 2015. That's the new DCFC curse. 

I think, unfortunately, for the mood of a section of the fans at least, Saturday becomes a must win game for Warne. The mounting injury list doesn't help either, but if he's wise he'll park his principles and go with what worked better in the second half on Tuesday and opt for evolution rather than revolution. 

At least the manager reacted on Tuesday to the situation at half time and changed the system .

We were better 2nd half but as Roy pointed out moving Smith to RB worked but reduced creativity in midfield.

For me Odura would be good at RB in a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 with Roberts at LB .

Can Forsyth play 2 games in 4 days I don’t know so Stearman might come in to partner Cash .

I have no right to tell Paul what to do as he has experience and I just have a fan’s view point and I don’t see training day in day out and know fitness of players etc .

Is Paul Warne adaptable to the situation at the moment because I sure hope he is and Bristol Rovers are no pushover .

                             Wildsmith 

        Odura.     Strearman  Cash.   Roberts 

          MDl.           Smith.      Hourihane.     Sibley

                         Dobbin.   Collins  

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I think, unfortunately, for the mood of a section of the fans at least, Saturday becomes a must win game for Warne. The mounting injury list doesn't help either, but if he's wise he'll park his principles and go with what worked better in the second half on Tuesday and opt for evolution rather than revolution. 

You'd have hoped he'd have the brains to have done that from the beginning. He knew the players hadn't had 'his preseason', and that they weren't as athletic as he'd like. So why is he trying to get a bunch of inexperienced youngsters and 'vunerable' older players to be so athletic?

Where is recognition of the results of this? Does it need such a big stick to find out who is in and who is out? Esprcially when as has been said most here are potentially only here short term? 

[PistoldPete]

10 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I think he said something along the lines of Curtis and Jason’s injuries being fair enough because they were knocks but Barkhuisen and Chester’s being disappointing as they had felt something go. The implication was either a lack of fitness or an easy way out.

Stupid comments. He does seem to make them a lot.. maybe his comment when Wednesday got relegated instead of us should have been a warning. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Is Paul Warne adaptable to the situation at the moment because I sure hope he is and Bristol Rovers are no pushover .

                             Wildsmith 

        Odura.     Strearman  Cash.   Roberts 

          MDl.           Smith.      Hourihane.     Sibley

                         Dobbin.   Collins  

I'd have Osula rather than Dobbin, at least he looks like he knows how to score and if given the ball has plenty of pace and skill. And I'd most certainly have Bird rather than the static Hourihane.

 

                          Wildsmith 

        Odoruh    Strearman  Cashin   Roberts 

          Nat.           Smith      Bird    Sibley

                         Osula   Collins  

 

Very unlikely to happen.

[RadioactiveWaste]

I think there's far to much being read into the "strange" injury comments.

In the context of a small squad losing vital bodies it seemed to me far more "argh I'm even losing them to non-contact injuries" frustration than an "I know he's faking it because he doesn't want to put the effort in" but I've not listed back to it since Tuesday.

[Crewton]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You'd have hoped he'd have the brains to have done that from the beginning. He knew the players hadn't had 'his preseason', and that they weren't as athletic as he'd like. So why is he trying to get a bunch of inexperienced youngsters and 'vunerable' older players to be so athletic?

Where is recognition of the results of this? Does it need such a big stick to find out who is in and who is out? Esprcially when as has been said most here are potentially only here short term? 

The only way to find out what they were capable of was to try them out in games. He did what many were calling for Rosenior to do : switched to a back 3 to reflect the fact that we have more cover at CB than FB, move Knight into midfield, played two strikers, played Sibley in midfield, in fact played more attacking players in general, stopped the aimless Chuckle Brothers build-up, got the ball forward more quickly and directly ........ isn't that what the fans wanted?

Now he knows who can and who can't cope with these tactics, most of which was on the fans wish list, he has the task of deciding whether to persist or whether to modify his preferred tactics to accommodate the players available to him. I mean, I'm assuming few fans just wanted "more of the same"? Even those who wanted Rosenior to stay wanted him to modify HIS preferred philosophy. But it seems that few are willing to accept that change doesn't always happen smoothly or instantly. 

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The only way to find out what they were capable of was to try them out in games. He did what many were calling for Rosenior to do : switched to a back 3 to reflect the fact that we have more cover at CB than FB, move Knight into midfield, played two strikers, played Sibley in midfield, in fact played more attacking players in general, stopped the aimless Chuckle Brothers build-up, got the ball forward more quickly and directly ........ isn't that what the fans wanted?

He played more players out of position doing this than risking one youngster at RB. He also did it because that was the system he preferred, else why do it? He could have stopped the slow build up from a back four just as easily. Especially as only one of our CBs looks really comfortable with lots of possession.

Edited October 27, 2022 by RoyMac5

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The only way to find out what they were capable of was to try them out in games. He did what many were calling for Rosenior to do : switched to a back 3 to reflect the fact that we have more cover at CB than FB, move Knight into midfield, played two strikers, played Sibley in midfield, in fact played more attacking players in general, stopped the aimless Chuckle Brothers build-up, got the ball forward more quickly and directly ........ isn't that what the fans wanted?

Now he knows who can and who can't cope with these tactics, most of which was on the fans wish list, he has the task of deciding whether to persist or whether to modify his preferred tactics to accommodate the players available to him. I mean, I'm assuming few fans just wanted "more of the same"? Even those who wanted Rosenior to stay wanted him to modify HIS preferred philosophy. But it seems that few are willing to accept that change doesn't always happen smoothly or instantly. 

SOME wanted 3 at the back because they wanted Knight in midfield and thought 3 at the back was the only way to do that. Rosenior even said he would have tried Smith there if he wasn't injured in pre-season. What did Warne do on Saturday? Went back to a back four with Smith at RB.

Rosenior's system only needed tweaking, and with a couple of additions in January he wold have achieved that. The passing between defenders was for two reasons. Not having those couple of additions, but also the style of drawing the opposition out of position. 
The majority of fans didn't want super direct play, bypassing the midfield. They wanted a more urgent style of play, passing between lines, without sacrificing the amount of possession.
Most of all, fans want winning football. As I've mentioned before, only Ted Magner has a better win% than Rosenior in the history of our club. If the quality of football is crap, you have to make sure you're getting results, and so far Warne is failing. Warne is quickly joining the Jewell, Brown and Pearson group as managers with the worst record for our club. He's already got a worse record than Tommy Docherty.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

I bloody love this forum. Doesn't half give me a good chuckle reading peoples opinions. 

 

[Anon]

Criticism of Warne is reasonable, but calling on win percentage statistics when the sample size is 12 and 7 games respectively is ridiculous.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Anon

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Anon said:

Criticism of Warne is reasonable, but calling on win percentage statistics when the sample size is 12 and 7 games respectively is ridiculous.

I love comments like these. How many games do we give a manager until we're allowed to use stats to criticise (definition: to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly)?

Edited October 27, 2022 by RoyMac5