Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[Blondest Goat]

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He did really well after Christmas, then got binned off.  Sibley also did well and got binned off. Warne has his favourite and it was clear with those choices .  He'll be back in Evertons reserves in 6 weeks.

I've not been impressed with Barks but agree about Sibley.  We can't buy a goal and Warne continues to leave out one of the few players we have that knows how to find the back of the net.  Odd.

[RodleyRam]

We can all play the Football Manager random formation generator but I do find the non-selection of players who have contributed goals odd, particularly when we're clearly struggling to find the net. He's also said how difficult is been to play against Ipswich and Plymouth because they play two no.10s.

We have two of the better no.10s in the league in Sibz and Didz why aren't we trying that and get them feeding off Collins' hold up play (or at least get them trying to predict which direction his first touch will bounce...)

You could have Knight and Roberts at full back giving some width and pace. Bird, Hourihane and Smith in the middle which would leave us much less open to losing control of the middle and rampant counter attacks. 

NML, Barks and Dobbin could all fulfill that no.10 type role too and/or adjust it slightly to have them playing a bit wider.

It's probably too late in the day to start messing about to this level but I can't help feel we're trying to fit the players we have into a system and a style of play rather than the other way around.

Can one of the youngsters try this out in the latest version of FM and report back how we get on?

[RoyMac5]

4 hours ago, RodleyRam said:

It's probably too late in the day to start messing about to this level but I can't help feel we're trying to fit the players we have into a system and a style of play rather than the other way around.

Surely no different to messing around with 3 at the back, which the squad don't play either!

[RodleyRam]

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Surely no different to messing around with 3 at the back, which the squad don't play either!

Precisely, I never understood that, we clearly don't have any wingbacks. At least my fantasy suggestion would play most players in their preferred positions and get as many goalscoring options on the pitch as possible. NML would be the unfortunate casualty.

[Rev]

On the back of a an away win, so I'm not seen as reactive to a poor result, I'll nail my colours to the mast regarding Warne.

 

Lovely bloke, good people person, but a very limited football manager in terms of how he sees the game.

 

Today we played a team cut adrift at the bottom of the league, one win in the last 23 if I heard Owen correctly, yet we owed our goals chiefly to their unbelievably naive, schoolboy level defending.

 

We are not seeing the best of our squad, because we have a manager who believes football is chiefly an athletic pursuit, rather than a game of skill, and cunning, with athleticism allowing the skill and cunning to prosper.

 

We've appointed a smiley Charlie Hughes, basically. 

 

Playing midfield under Warne at the moment is a thankless task, watching balls from the back hoofed over your head into the channels, waiting to pounce on the oppositions mistakes to win those second balls, all the while not wanting to leave the back door open. 

 

We don't have the squad to play his way, so we'll limp on till the end of the season, a make do and mend team, even if we somehow end up in the play offs, even if we end up winning them, until he gets the summer, and further windows, to put his stamp on the club

 

By which point, I'm not convinced that a team Paul Warne has crafted will be one I particularly want to watch, week in, week out.

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

17 minutes ago, Rev said:

Today we played a team cut adrift at the bottom of the league, one win in the last 23 if I heard Owen correctly, yet we owed our goals chiefly to their unbelievably naive, schoolboy level defending.

We are not seeing the best of our squad, because we have a manager who believes football is chiefly an athletic pursuit, rather than a game of skill, and cunning, with athleticism allowing the skill and cunning to prosper

By which point, I'm not convinced that a team Paul Warne has crafted will be one I particularly want to watch, week in, week out.

 

I’ve edited your post to the points I find most interesting. 
We won today after our own poor run in which the players confidence has seemed shot compared to earlier in the season, it wasn’t pretty but could be the boost they needed. No matter how the goals came, they all count and it guaranteed us 3 points. A bit more confidence and Collins takes another chance (maybe 😉 ), Knight buries his header, McGoldrick takes one of his chances.

There does appear to be a disconnect between how Warne wants the game played to what attributes we have in the squad currently, and I have my own concerns with Warne’s apparent lack of reactive management during games of late. In terms of the squad not much can change there until the summer so we’ll have to wait and see, I’m one of those fans who isn’t going to be devastated if we don’t go up so long as the club continues in its recovery (not an excuse of “we only had 5 players”, just my genuine view of being glad to have a club to follow regardless of league, I know others don’t feel like me and some do).

Which brings me to your, and my final point, I interpret your view as being a bit more along the “football purist” view. Hypothetically, what would you think if Warne was successful in piecing together his squad in the summer and we start winning week in week out (whatever league) with a more athletic…erm…agricultural style of football? 
 

I guess what I’m wondering is would you (and others) be able to reconcile the hypothetical success of the team against a preferred style of play? Fully aware that may not play out as I’m suggesting and we could get battered each week at which point I get the pitchforks will be sharpened and torches lit 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram
Grammatical errors

[Rev]

46 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I’ve edited your post to the points I find most interesting. 
We won today after our own poor run in which the players confidence has seemed shot compared to earlier in the season, it wasn’t pretty but could be the boost they needed. No matter how the goals came, they all count and it guaranteed us 3 points. A bit more confidence and Collins takes another chance (maybe 😉 ), Knight buries his header, McGoldrick takes one of his chances.

There does appear to be a disconnect between how Warne wants the game played to what attributes we have in the squad currently, and I have my own concerns with Warne’s apparent lack of reactive management during games of late. In terms of the squad not much can change there until the summer so we’ll have to wait and see, I’m one of those fans who isn’t going to be devastated if we don’t go up so long as the club continues in its recovery (not an excuse of “we only had 5 players”, just my genuine view of being glad to have a club to follow regardless of league, I know others don’t feel like me and some do).

Which brings me to your, and my final point, I interpret your view as being a bit more along the “football purist” view. Hypothetically, what would you think if Warne was successful in piecing together his squad in the summer and we start winning week in week out (whatever league) with a more athletic…erm…agricultural style of football? 
 

I guess what I’m wondering is would you (and others) be able to reconcile the hypothetical success of the team against a preferred style of play? Fully aware that may not play out as I’m suggesting and we could get battered each week at which point I get the pitchforks will be sharpened and torches lit 

That's a fair point, well made. 

I've no problem with direct football, when Warne first came in, we scored a fantastic goal at home which comprised of 3 passes from defence to goal, end to end. 

They were passes though, and what it seems to have evolved into is relentlessly front to back hitting the channels, cross field 60 yd balls, hitting a cross in regardless of if we have a man to get on the end of them or not, guessing balls I call them. 

I'd just like to see a bit more nuance at this moment in time, especially given the squad make up isn't particularly suited to that style of football.

In the long term, PW can set up how he sees fit, and recruit to suit, but to not adjust his methods to suit the players currently at his disposal is limiting the success we can achieve.

TL/DR 

I'm not wedded to any philosophy, just get the best out of the players you have now.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

On the back of a an away win, so I'm not seen as reactive to a poor result, I'll nail my colours to the mast regarding Warne.

 

Lovely bloke, good people person, but a very limited football manager in terms of how he sees the game.

 

Today we played a team cut adrift at the bottom of the league, one win in the last 23 if I heard Owen correctly, yet we owed our goals chiefly to their unbelievably naive, schoolboy level defending.

 

We are not seeing the best of our squad, because we have a manager who believes football is chiefly an athletic pursuit, rather than a game of skill, and cunning, with athleticism allowing the skill and cunning to prosper.

 

We've appointed a smiley Charlie Hughes, basically. 

 

Playing midfield under Warne at the moment is a thankless task, watching balls from the back hoofed over your head into the channels, waiting to pounce on the oppositions mistakes to win those second balls, all the while not wanting to leave the back door open. 

 

We don't have the squad to play his way, so we'll limp on till the end of the season, a make do and mend team, even if we somehow end up in the play offs, even if we end up winning them, until he gets the summer, and further windows, to put his stamp on the club

 

By which point, I'm not convinced that a team Paul Warne has crafted will be one I particularly want to watch, week in, week out.

 

After all that laughing at me

[Dcfcsr92]

Good result, think we are lucky to start with the game peno so early should of been a 0-0 draw over the whole 90mins but take a 2-0 win and now lets get confidence and win a few! Upwards and onwards 

[Caerphilly Ram]

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

That's a fair point, well made. 

I've no problem with direct football, when Warne first came in, we scored a fantastic goal at home which comprised of 3 passes from defence to goal, end to end. 

They were passes though, and what it seems to have evolved into is relentlessly front to back hitting the channels, cross field 60 yd balls, hitting a cross in regardless of if we have a man to get on the end of them or not, guessing balls I call them. 

I'd just like to see a bit more nuance at this moment in time, especially given the squad make up isn't particularly suited to that style of football.

In the long term, PW can set up how he sees fit, and recruit to suit, but to not adjust his methods to suit the players currently at his disposal is limiting the success we can achieve.

TL/DR 

I'm not wedded to any philosophy, just get the best out of the players you have now.

One of the things I find most interesting is that notion of getting the best out of the players, there are periods throughout the season where Warne and his colleagues have definitely got a tune out of the players, what’s the thing that’s stopped it happening consistently? 🤔 

I don’t know what the answer to that is. Is it Warne’s methods and the subsequent burnout? Is it that other teams figured us out and we haven’t adapted? Is it the lack of squad depth and preseason catching up with us? The January recruitment? Or just one of those things?

I’ve said before how I try and be objective and look at the facts, though admittedly can be a bit of a blind optimist at times. Warne got this squad performing for a good chunk of the season, and we’ve had a big ol’ wobble of late. It’s surely not as simple as Warne is this or that, hopefully he works out how to get them playing again. 

[ossieram]

7 minutes ago, Dcfcsr92 said:

Good result, think we are lucky to start with the game peno so early should of been a 0-0 draw over the whole 90mins but take a 2-0 win and now lets get confidence and win a few! Upwards and onwards 

Why should it have been 0-0?

Surely if you score and they don't, you win!

[Rev]

17 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

After all that laughing at me

I don't think I've ever laughed at you? 

At least, not intentionally. 

[BondJovi]

I suppose my somewhat greater concern is that we have in our squad 3 young players who should be able to stroll this league. Yet at no point has our manager seemingly wanted to find a way to get Knight, Bird and Sibley in the same midfield, to get the best out of them. Seem to be moving further from playing in a way that even gets the best of one of them!

An also worrying notion that Sibley and Knight can't be in the same midfield...

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

That's a fair point, well made. 

I've no problem with direct football, when Warne first came in, we scored a fantastic goal at home which comprised of 3 passes from defence to goal, end to end. 

They were passes though, and what it seems to have evolved into is relentlessly front to back hitting the channels, cross field 60 yd balls, hitting a cross in regardless of if we have a man to get on the end of them or not, guessing balls I call them. 

I'd just like to see a bit more nuance at this moment in time, especially given the squad make up isn't particularly suited to that style of football.

In the long term, PW can set up how he sees fit, and recruit to suit, but to not adjust his methods to suit the players currently at his disposal is limiting the success we can achieve.

TL/DR 

I'm not wedded to any philosophy, just get the best out of the players you have now.

Even Rowett was better to watch than this afternoon. I prayed that the ball would get to Didzy for an artful moment full of guile and craft. And then Cashin booted it long, again, mostly giving Sibley no chance...

[On the Ram Page]

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Even Rowett was better to watch than this afternoon. I prayed that the ball would get to Didzy for an artful moment full of guile and craft. And then Cashin booted it long, again, mostly giving Sibley no chance...

At this stage of the season all that matters is 3 points, especially as the side is obviously short of confidence following recent results. Be lovely to play to play slick, passing game but that is not where we are at the moment. Paul Warne can’t win at the moment in many fans eyes. We played both Plymouth and Peterborough off the park in the first halves, only to be outdone in the second, when opposing teams changed their tactics but we were unable to respond due to the shortcomings of our very small squad ( I.e. lack of a strong tackling midfield and pace). Today we swamped midfield to keep things tight and I believe the plan was to play on their fullbacks - Mendez-L was prominent, Sibley was not.

It wasn’t a great watch but I’ve seen this type of game numerous times at this time of the season - it’s tense and free flowing football is difficult. Can I remind people that our comical 2nd goal came from another Paul Warne wish - pressing high up the field.

 

At this stage of the season I will take another 1-0 bore against MK Dons as long as the 3 points are in the bag. He can entertain me next season, when he has more of a side he wants.

 

[RoyMac5]

45 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

At this stage of the season I will take another 1-0 bore against MK Dons as long as the 3 points are in the bag. He can entertain me next season, when he has more of a side he wants.

Sorry, don't get that. 

We got 3 points, this time.

Edited April 7, 2023 by RoyMac5

[FlyBritishMidland]

1 hour ago, On the Ram Page said:

At this stage of the season all that matters is 3 points, especially as the side is obviously short of confidence following recent results. Be lovely to play to play slick, passing game but that is not where we are at the moment. Paul Warne can’t win at the moment in many fans eyes. We played both Plymouth and Peterborough off the park in the first halves, only to be outdone in the second, when opposing teams changed their tactics but we were unable to respond due to the shortcomings of our very small squad ( I.e. lack of a strong tackling midfield and pace). Today we swamped midfield to keep things tight and I believe the plan was to play on their fullbacks - Mendez-L was prominent, Sibley was not.

It wasn’t a great watch but I’ve seen this type of game numerous times at this time of the season - it’s tense and free flowing football is difficult. Can I remind people that our comical 2nd goal came from another Paul Warne wish - pressing high up the field.

 

At this stage of the season I will take another 1-0 bore against MK Dons as long as the 3 points are in the bag. He can entertain me next season, when he has more of a side he wants.

 

All good points.  Totally agree about the 2nd goal, if we don’t press we don’t put the defence under pressure, forcing the defender to make a mistake which we capitalise on.  After our recent run today was the proverbial win ugly even if it’s a goal off someone’s backside.  At this stage of the season it’s just about the results, regardless of which end of the table your at.

It seems like Warne’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t at the moment and people are looking for any reason to pick fault.  The unbeaten run raised hope and expectation.  I’ve said before but if these results were spread out over the season rather than feast or famine and we’re outside the play off places on goal difference I don’t think there’d be anywhere near as much criticism.

[Dcfcsr92]

10 hours ago, ossieram said:

Why should it have been 0-0?

Surely if you score and they don't, you win!

I mean as the game was played it was like a 0-0 game

[derbydaz22]

12 hours ago, Rev said:

That's a fair point, well made. 

I've no problem with direct football, when Warne first came in, we scored a fantastic goal at home which comprised of 3 passes from defence to goal, end to end. 

They were passes though, and what it seems to have evolved into is relentlessly front to back hitting the channels, cross field 60 yd balls, hitting a cross in regardless of if we have a man to get on the end of them or not, guessing balls I call them. 

I'd just like to see a bit more nuance at this moment in time, especially given the squad make up isn't particularly suited to that style of football.

In the long term, PW can set up how he sees fit, and recruit to suit, but to not adjust his methods to suit the players currently at his disposal is limiting the success we can achieve.

TL/DR 

I'm not wedded to any philosophy, just get the best out of the players you have now.

I agree when Warne 1st came we mixed things up not the possession we had under Rosenior but we looked more of a goal threat but yesterday was proper route 1 just launching long balls forward and hoping for the best. I hope that’s not the sign of things to come as it was pretty dross.

[IlsonDerby]

My concern is that I’m starting to think the mix of good football and direct football that we saw during the unbeaten run was more a hangover from Roseniors instructions and now we’re aimlessly launching it forwards with very little in terms of incisive good play on the ground. 
 

Let us be very clear, despite a tough start we had the higher xG than our opposition in every game under Rosenior and it was our finishing which was woeful. 
 

I think what worries me is we’re all hoping that he gets some players in that’ll make his style work and we’ll be successful but the other option is we fill the team with absolute cloggers and athletes at the expense of technical ability and we’re shown to still be falling short but we’re now left with a squad full of hoof merchants.