Bristol City next to fail P and S ?

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I do know all about them. It seems to me, however, that there is no reason whatsoever to treat Bristol City any different from Wigan, Bury etc, or indeed, how we would like fans of other clubs to view our situation.

It seems that some big mouth on a Bristol City forum trolls and some on here have been drawn in to the childishness.

The bigger picture is that fans of other clubs are just like us and love their club regardless of whatever charlatan is running it.

How many people were saying .. how come Derby are the only club to go into administration? As far as I can see the only differnce between Derby and Bristol is that their owner is richer than ours was so they will probably avoid adminisitration. Stoke likewise.     

[BriggRam]

[BriggRam]

3-6 point deduction and no transfer embargo

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

How many people were saying .. how come Derby are the only club to go into administration? As far as I can see the only differnce between Derby and Bristol is that their owner is richer than ours was so they will probably avoid adminisitration. Stoke likewise.     

We really have no idea of the personal circumstances of the respective owners. 

At the end of the day, any or all of them may choose to stop pouring their cash into their respective clubs. It's entirely their choices... 

[PistoldPete]

24 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

We really have no idea of the personal circumstances of the respective owners. 

At the end of the day, any or all of them may choose to stop pouring their cash into their respective clubs. It's entirely their choices... 

True up to a point. We do have some idea that Stoke's owners are absolutely loaded for example. But most clubs in the EFL are on a tightrope. 

[Boycie]

Hopefully they’ll change the rules because of the unfair advantage of the umbrella clubs to the non umbrella clubs.

Then everyone after us can rest assured that it wasn’t a level playing field.

Unlike Lords.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Boycie

[angieram]

"In relation to club ownership, the so-called benefactor model is a key issue, and one that the League and members are keen to move away from."

EFL in response to Rams Trust, October 2021.

So what exactly are they doing about it? 

[Rev]

4 hours ago, David said:

really don't think he's in a position to call anyone an idiot.

The man's a fool.

 

How did he expect you to see administration coming, when you can't even see a kerb from 6ft away?

[Ambitious]

I take absolutely no pleasure in this, at all. It's yet again another sign of how broken the EFL have made their own system. A team like Bristol City who have sold players when reasonable offers have come in, not really pushed the boat out on their squad, certainly not egregiously anyway, are now looking down a penalty point sanction, possibly with a number of other clubs whilst relegated clubs come down with a HUGE head start, not only on the cash side but they are allowed to make triple the losses per year for years spent in the Premier League. 

COVID has shown the EFL up for what they are - charlatans. An entire organisation that pats its self on the back for how well of a handout it can get from another organisation, the Premier League, who they guilt trip for actually being successful at branding their product. It's long lost its identity and it looks to me they don't even try. 

Not fit for purpose isn't even remotely close to decribing what they are. Arguably, for me, the most incompetent sports governing body in Europe. 

[LeedsCityRam]

7 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Loads of praise for our fans yesterday. For their strength and determination.

Yet a good many seem to have forgotten what it's like to be a supporter of a mismanaged club.

Nasty.

Its a difficult one. I do see your point, generally have empathy for fans of clubs in (potential) trouble & lets not forget the very reason Blackpool joined us the other week in protest against the EFL...because thousands at PP sang 'Oyston out' in support of them when they were at their lowest a few years back. We're an intrinsically decent fanbase.

But I also find myself agreeing with @ossieram Most of this division have revelled in our misery this year, with their lazy regurgitation of 'cheating' without stopping to consider why & how this happened...not least some of the patrons of Bristol. No-one wants a club to go out of business but do I want them hounded, decimated & ultimately punished by the EFL in some show of consistency? Damn right i do.

P.s. this isn't about the individual on their forum who attracts attention from some on here. An irrelevance at best but I suspect he/she may have some 'issues'.

Edited December 28, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[TuffLuff]

Can we sue them for signing Chris Martin by lampooning our offer of one year even though they blatantly couldn’t afford it?

In all seriousness never want to see any club be in their situation, like I don’t think any proper football fan would want to see a club in ours.

Much like us, you cannot go around spending big bucks or offering very good wages to players without balancing up the books somewhere. Either by getting Hugh earners out of the club, getting big money for youngsters or by selling the stadium to yourself and acting the big man afterwards. It also doesn’t help when you are spending that cash on average championship dross for the most part (not CM19 ofcourse).

Edit: just looked at the incomings and departures and it wasn’t as bad as I was expecting so I’ll stand corrected a bit on that. But my point on wages still stands, CM is probably a decent example of that.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by TuffLuff

[Davefevs]

Not sure if your good friend Mr Pops has replied, but we (I’m a City fan) are still well inside FFP for the cycle ending with these accounts.

Dont forget 19/20 and 20/21s losses are halved and added together….plus we made a profit in 18/19 of £12m.

They are a crap set of accounts, we are over the lower limit of £15m (3 year cycle) so will have to provide future projections for 21/22 and 22/23…which to be fair we possibly were anyway.

So, no points deductions due I’m afraid.

As for 21/22 (this season) we’ve already wiped circa £12-13m off the cost base, which might improved further if we move on some of the high earners like Palmer in this this window.  Therefore we will also pass this season’s FFP cycle limits too.  That’s without trying to guess what our covid allowances will be…probably £10m.  That means we probably go into next season in a safe position too.

By 23/24 season (18 months away) our Amortisation costs will be less than £1m.  We have been proactive by letting 10+ players leave in the summer.  We re-signed Baker and Weimann on half their salaries, in Weimann’s case we avoided taking his year option at £20k p.w. and we smoothed out £10k p.w. by giving him 3 years.  9 goals and 4 assists is proving smart business.

Steve Lansdown is not Mel Morris.  He’s an accountant who has lived his life under financial regulation, he isn’t about to be a hypocrite by failing FFP.

 

[Day]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

The man's a fool.

 

How did he expect you to see administration coming, when you can't even see a kerb from 6ft away?

Exactly! ?

I signed up to to Undr The Cosh podcast patreon tonight to get the private member club podcasts, first one up Ian Holloway, spoke about taking the QPR job on and having no idea they were going to go into admin just a few weeks later.

That's the manager of the club, not a clue. 

Yet because I sat in a few meetings with other fan groups, I should have seen it coming, absolutely no chance, as you say, can't even see a kerb in front of me!

In all seriousness, just shows a level of stupidity I can't even get my head around, why on earth would an owner get the fans into a meeting and saying hey up, chances are we're off into admin and I haven't paid the HMRC bill.

We're told what they want us to know and we report back to the wider fanbase, the possibility of administration was never one of those things on the agenda when trying to sell the club.

Last one was covering issues with the EFL, that's it, nothing more and I walked away on the understanding they would be fighting this all the way.

Mel wanting out was public knowledge, however there was never any suggestion he was going to pull the plug the way he did.

I know Flagman created a topic, however with no source I had no real reason to put any weight to it, turns out he was right. 

Not sure why I'm even trying to defend myself here to a guy that as I say and removing any kind of insults, hides behind the name of a laundrette owner in Eastenders.

Football is broken, most clubs in this league are reliant on a rich owner willing to put money in, any day they can wake up and just say enough is enough I'm out, and that should be a scary thought for not just fans but the EFL.

Bristol City have been losing £412k a week for the last 10 years, just a staggering amount of money to be throwing away when let's be honest, they don't have a squad to show for it that can be challenging promotion.

That's where my interest in their balance sheets ends, I'm a football fan not an amateur wannabe accountant or lawyer. 

I just hope for the fans sake Lansdown doesn't just one day walk away and wash his hands with the club as it's gut wrenching to think the very existence of the club you have supported all your life is at risk.

[Rev]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if your good friend Mr Pops has replied, but we (I’m a City fan) are still well inside FFP for the cycle ending with these accounts.

Dont forget 19/20 and 20/21s losses are halved and added together….plus we made a profit in 18/19 of £12m.

They are a crap set of accounts, we are over the lower limit of £15m (3 year cycle) so will have to provide future projections for 21/22 and 22/23…which to be fair we possibly were anyway.

So, no points deductions due I’m afraid.

As for 21/22 (this season) we’ve already wiped circa £12-13m off the cost base, which might improved further if we move on some of the high earners like Palmer in this this window.  Therefore we will also pass this season’s FFP cycle limits too.  That’s without trying to guess what our covid allowances will be…probably £10m.  That means we probably go into next season in a safe position too.

By 23/24 season (18 months away) our Amortisation costs will be less than £1m.  We have been proactive by letting 10+ players leave in the summer.  We re-signed Baker and Weimann on half their salaries, in Weimann’s case we avoided taking his year option at £20k p.w. and we smoothed out £10k p.w. by giving him 3 years.  9 goals and 4 assists is proving smart business.

Steve Lansdown is not Mel Morris.  He’s an accountant who has lived his life under financial regulation, he isn’t about to be a hypocrite by failing FFP.

 

Good post, but also displays everything that's wrong with football at our level, imo.

You/We should be talking about our strikers useless left foot, why on earth our talented youngster isn't getting more minutes, and which players wife the manager is shagging!

Instead we debate methods of amortisation, extending contracts to meet P&S rules, and spend time trawling Companies House and land registry records.

 

[Crewton]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As for 21/22 (this season) we’ve already wiped circa £12-13m off the cost base, which might improved further if we move on some of the high earners like Palmer in this this window.

Good luck with that. We could write a book on how well that strategy works. 

[Philmycock]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if your good friend Mr Pops has replied, but we (I’m a City fan) are still well inside FFP for the cycle ending with these accounts.

Dont forget 19/20 and 20/21s losses are halved and added together….plus we made a profit in 18/19 of £12m.

They are a crap set of accounts, we are over the lower limit of £15m (3 year cycle) so will have to provide future projections for 21/22 and 22/23…which to be fair we possibly were anyway.

So, no points deductions due I’m afraid.

As for 21/22 (this season) we’ve already wiped circa £12-13m off the cost base, which might improved further if we move on some of the high earners like Palmer in this this window.  Therefore we will also pass this season’s FFP cycle limits too.  That’s without trying to guess what our covid allowances will be…probably £10m.  That means we probably go into next season in a safe position too.

By 23/24 season (18 months away) our Amortisation costs will be less than £1m.  We have been proactive by letting 10+ players leave in the summer.  We re-signed Baker and Weimann on half their salaries, in Weimann’s case we avoided taking his year option at £20k p.w. and we smoothed out £10k p.w. by giving him 3 years.  9 goals and 4 assists is proving smart business.

Steve Lansdown is not Mel Morris.  He’s an accountant who has lived his life under financial regulation, he isn’t about to be a hypocrite by failing FFP.

 

Do you want us liquidated like Mr Pop?

[Rev]

18 minutes ago, David said:

just hope for the fans sake Lansdown doesn't just one day walk away and wash his hands with the club as it's gut wrenching to think the very existence of the club you have supported all your life is at risk

Gut wrenching, that's a good expression.

I flipping love this club, and to see it in its present state is more than a shame, more than a blip, it's a disaster, and I sincerely hope no other clubs supporters have to go through this, even the clubs I despise.

New news is the first thing I look for in the morning, and the last thing I check at night, and I know it will be the same for many thousands of others. 

To be a Derby fan isn't a choice we make, it's a calling, a sense of belonging to a tribe more powerful than we could ever be as individuals, yet a common thread that pulls us all together through rare good times, and much more common hard times.

That feeling you get, when you click through a turnstile, or tune into RamsTV or Sky, or switch on a radio, to share those next 90 minutes is the most powerful drug in the world, if we lose that I don't think I could ever rehab from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Day]

28 minutes ago, Rev said:

Gut wrenching, that's a good expression.

I flipping love this club, and to see it in its present state is more than a shame, more than a blip, it's a disaster, and I sincerely hope no other clubs supporters have to go through this, even the clubs I despise.

New news is the first thing I look for in the morning, and the last thing I check at night, and I know it will be the same for many thousands of others. 

To be a Derby fan isn't a choice we make, it's a calling, a sense of belonging to a tribe more powerful than we could ever be as individuals, yet a common thread that pulls us all together through rare good times, and much more common hard times.

That feeling you get, when you click through a turnstile, or tune into RamsTV or Sky, or switch on a radio, to share those next 90 minutes is the most powerful drug in the world, if we lose that I don't think I could ever rehab from it.

Football is a huge part of our lives and we all will have our own stories with what the game means to them and how it's a chapter in their own autobiography. I can't put into words how I would feel if there was no Derby County.

All the talk of a phoenix club, AFC Derby doesn't give me any comfort, I get the fairy tale of starting at the bottom and rising back but I would rather not see our history wiped and a footnote on some Wikipedia page in 50 years time.

This club has been a huge part of my own personal recovery which has been well documented on this forum already to repeat, when SRG text me with the news we went into administration I felt myself physically shaking inside and went white in the face apparently.

My missus would vouch for me when I say I did not see this coming.

It made no sense and I wish that feeling on no fans, not even Leeds or Forest.

The Bristol City fan coming on saying Lansdown isn't Mel Morris, he's an accountant, the guys losing almost half a million a week and has been for 10 years!

How on earth he has any idea of how close he is to pull the plug I don't know. Let's not forget Stephen Pearce is an accountant as well.

I honestly don't consider anyone out there that is enjoying watching our existence under threat as a real football fan, I mean a real fan that lives and breathes the game.

Banter is banter, laughing at relegation, a defeat, missed open goal, but this is beyond banter.

Unfortunately we're in a world where on social media people crave attention, being toxic, a shock jock in their own little show gains them that attention and it's part of the game now. Not a part I would ever have respect for.

[Ramslad1992]

 

I feel as sorry for them as they did for us… duck ‘em

[Crewton]

7 hours ago, David said:

The Bristol City fan coming on saying Lansdown isn't Mel Morris, he's an accountant, the guys losing almost half a million a week and has been for 10 years!

That character is probably the most vehement about wanting DCFC to be liquidated and I thought his post was glib and a touch delusional. I've noted that Mr Ploppy, whilst clearly being obsessed with us, has said he doesn't want that, though he has said some pretty offensive things about MM & SP (obviously), DCFC as a club and us as a fanbase. 

There's a substantial hardcore of them on OTIB who, I think, are using our situation as a personal distraction from yet another season of disappointment for BCFC. It's convenient.