The Administration Thread

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

It won`t all be on players, and it`s just a best guestimate. There will be fees to pay to clubs for players, agents fees (which as we know with whats standing on the books now, can be significant) signing on fees and numerous other costs to serve, including funding the running of the Club between May and August when there is no or little income!

The projected running costs are something like £1.25 to £1.75 per month. So take 3 months at an average of £1.5m and that`s £4.5m to find before next season starts or any players are signed ad contracts renewed.

As soon as the season ends we're awarded Central EFL funds for the 21/22 season (not far off £7m). As the summer progresses, we'll receive the lion's share of our money from sponsors for the 22/23 season, which will be £3-4m in L1, £5m+ in the Championship.

[RAM1966]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

Men at Mel's level do not operate like us mere plebs. I remember reading some time ago that the Chairman of a major company was on the Board of 50+ other companies and advisor to others. They make quick decisions based on very high level (summarised) information and instinct, because they have no time for detail. It is a trait of many people who get to the top. 

I had to do Board level briefs occasionally and the rule was 5 or 6 bullet points no more. May be 5 minutes to present it!

I imagine MM operates like this and we really should be also decrying the people who were feeding him the data.

Nice try but when you've 'allegedly spunked 40% of your own wealth you should have a better handle on it.

Who employed his advisors?  Mel, his fault 100% that we are where we are...

[WestKentRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Unless we are running at break even or a profit, surely the administrators would be breaking the law by continuing to trade knowing they were going to liquidate us in a few months time?

This is speculation by the way, I'm not up on insolvency law.

Mine has been pure speculation as well, as strangely enough I am not an insolvency lawyer or accountant either!

While clearing out the loft this week I found some old Coca Cola Super Skills badges I got while playing football at primary school back in the day. It did make me think that to 'enjoy' football nowadays it might be more useful for children to undertake football accountancy lessons to be able to understand their club's financial predicament with a more considered approach ?

However I have taken informal advice this morning on this from an accountant I know who has worked on liquidations, and his opinion is it is not illegal for the administrators to see out to the end of the season and liquidate us then, if they think they can get more money for the creditors at that point.

Apparently, the administrators have to take chances that might not pay off, so long as the creditors are behind it. That might be why we are continuing to play on if we are still losing money, but if relegation is confirmed before the last match of the season then they might liquidate the club at that point if the financial impact of relegation is so bad if we played on and are losing money with every game played.

I agree not very cheery and hopefully it won't come to this, and I of course have no problem if others want to take a more positive approach. A long drive home post match with another supporter to ponder how this may play out did make us think that actually we are in the end game without knowing. Anyway, I'm off for a Roy Keane-esque long dog walk to clear my head!

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

Men at Mel's level do not operate like us mere plebs. I remember reading some time ago that the Chairman of a major company was on the Board of 50+ other companies and advisor to others. They make quick decisions based on very high level (summarised) information and instinct, because they have no time for detail. It is a trait of many people who get to the top. 

I had to do Board level briefs occasionally and the rule was 5 or 6 bullet points no more. May be 5 minutes to present it!

I imagine MM operates like this and we really should be also decrying the people who were feeding him the data.

The directors you speak of with so many appointments are usually non-execs. They usually advise based on prior experience but do not generally make decisions. I have advised execs since late 1990s and have never met executive directors who operate as you describe. From most that I have read Mel micro managing Derby and interfering seems more accurate. Your view doesnt really stack up with the stories of key players feeding him information for example. The buck well and truly stops with him. 

[r_wilcockson]

[PistoldPete]

38 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

As soon as the season ends we're awarded Central EFL funds for the 21/22 season (not far off £7m). As the summer progresses, we'll receive the lion's share of our money from sponsors for the 22/23 season, which will be £3-4m in L1, £5m+ in the Championship.

Player Wage bill after July will be about £3m to £4 m if we have only 5 players I guess. Which is a different problem of course but not a financial one.  Wil we actually get all the EFL central money or will they have deducted some of that to pay for Bieilk transfer instalments? 

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

Men at Mel's level do not operate like us mere plebs. I remember reading some time ago that the Chairman of a major company was on the Board of 50+ other companies and advisor to others. They make quick decisions based on very high level (summarised) information and instinct, because they have no time for detail. It is a trait of many people who get to the top. 

I imagine MM operates like this and we really should be also decrying the people who were feeding him the data.

What evidence do you have to support this? As all of the anecdotal information points to exactly the opposite with Morris being seen to meddle in matters he had employed other people to manage. 

[DanS1992]

2 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Not sure losing £200m is in the definition of scott free. Not that I'm a particular fan or hater!

Him losing 200 million is not enough considering the dumpster fire that he has left us. There should be more consequences for his blatant financial mismanagement of the club besides him losing a portion of his personal wealth.

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, r_wilcockson said:

Thanks for sharing this, as a a comment to the posters subject matter a lot of us have already reached the same conclusions so doesn't add anymore value to the situation and after all they are his "takes" which I assume means personal opinion not facts. 

[Ram-Alf]

6 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

The directors you speak of with so many appointments are usually non-execs. They usually advise based on prior experience but do not generally make decisions. I have advised execs since late 1990s and have never met executive directors who operate as you describe. From most that I have read Mel micro managing Derby and interfering seems more accurate. Your view doesnt really stack up with the stories of key players feeding him information for example. The buck well and truly stops with him. 

Storming into the dressing room at HT, Drones flying over Moor Farm, Players tittle tattle concerning Nigel Pearson, Having message boards monitered, All stories i've heard...it does make you wonder concerning where the Buck Stops

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Thanks for sharing this, as a a comment to the posters subject matter a lot of us have already reached the same conclusions so doesn't add anymore value to the situation and after all they are his "takes" which I assume means personal opinion not facts. 

I think Forkin has more info than us plebs but yes some of it is his opinion.  

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think Forkin has more info than us plebs but yes some of it is his opinion.  

As soon as he started the article with the words "my take" closely followed by "it looks" then the rest of the content is set up as being opinion and speculation. 

[strawhillram]

19 minutes ago, r_wilcockson said:

Stadium is not a block. Think he meant stadium is not a block of flats yet, but his messages got cut  short

[Chellaston Ram]

Maybe it’s time for Q to bite the bullet now and take the best offer and accept the consequences. Then at least we can start planning for next season 

[Ghost of Clough]

34 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Player Wage bill after July will be about £3m to £4 m if we have only 5 players I guess. Which is a different problem of course but not a financial one.  Wil we actually get all the EFL central money or will they have deducted some of that to pay for Bieilk transfer instalments? 

With all backroom and office staff, I reckon the total wage bill would drop to something in the £8-10m range - £200k pm. If it takes a couple of months the for our embargo to be lifted, that's a nice saving for the next owner.

I forsee us getting through to the end of the season and using those funds to cover some of the debts. Even less money for an owner to actually commit to out of his own wallet.

Do Lech count as a 'Football Creditor' due to being outside of the prectection of the EFL/FA? Rumoured £2.5-3m fee outstanding. Potentially another £2m knocked off the price tag.

 

Potentially, right now it could be as little as £47m for club and stadium whilst avoiding 15 points next season. £25m to MSD, £7m HMRC, about £5m to football creditors, £5m to unsecured creditors and £5m to the admins (can't be bothered to add up the actual figures).

Wait until the summer for the EFL and sponsorship money to come in to pay off some debt and we're down to a £37m figure.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Ghost of Clough

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Maybe it’s time for Q to bite the bullet now and take the best offer and accept the consequences. Then at least we can start planning for next season 

They wouldn't be accepting the consequences though. And the best offer might probably be not good enough to satisfy the creditors,  HMRC etc so they can't act on it. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Do we know Ashley is still at the table?

By the look of his fuller figure I'd say he's been at the table for quite a while ?

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

With all backroom and office staff, I reckon the total wage bill would drop to something in the £8-10m range - £200k pm. If it takes a couple of months the for our embargo to be lifted, that's a nice saving for the next owner.

I forsee us getting through to the end of the season and using those funds to cover some of the debts. Even less money for an owner to actually commit to out of his own wallet.

Do Lech count as a 'Football Creditor' due to being outside of the prectection of the EFL/FA? Rumoured £2.5-3m fee outstanding. Potentially another £2m knocked off the price tag.

 

Potentially, right now it could be as little as £47m for club and stadium whilst avoiding 15 points next season. £25m to MSD, £7m HMRC, about £5m to football creditors, £5m to unsecured creditors and £5m to the admins (can't be bothered to add up the actual figures).

Wait until the summer for the EFL and sponsorship money to come in to pay off some debt and we're down to a £37m figure.

Would the EFL release money owed? And would the sponsorship money not be taken by the administrators to pay creditors if still in administration? - lots of unknowns 

[Foreveram]

44 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

With all backroom and office staff, I reckon the total wage bill would drop to something in the £8-10m range - £200k pm. If it takes a couple of months the for our embargo to be lifted, that's a nice saving for the next owner.

I forsee us getting through to the end of the season and using those funds to cover some of the debts. Even less money for an owner to actually commit to out of his own wallet.

Do Lech count as a 'Football Creditor' due to being outside of the prectection of the EFL/FA? Rumoured £2.5-3m fee outstanding. Potentially another £2m knocked off the price tag.

 

Potentially, right now it could be as little as £47m for club and stadium whilst avoiding 15 points next season. £25m to MSD, £7m HMRC, about £5m to football creditors, £5m to unsecured creditors and £5m to the admins (can't be bothered to add up the actual figures).

Wait until the summer for the EFL and sponsorship money to come in to pay off some debt and we're down to a £37m figure.

Bargain, do you take roubles.

[i-Ram]

52 minutes ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Maybe it’s time for Q to bite the bullet now and take the best offer and accept the consequences. Then at least we can start planning for next season 

Fwiw, I think this is where we are now at. Q have been trying, a lot harder than many think on here, to maximise the return for Creditors, and for the benefit of the Club, to get a deal that sees us start next season on a level playing field. If now it seems most likely that we are going to be in L1, I suspect the deal figure is now much nearer £35m than £50m which is what they were hoping for. No one is going to pay much more than that for L1 income stream. Whether we start on -15 points now depends on whether Morris decides he will take a very modest settlement from this, and see’s off MSD himself. We are into a game of high stakes poker.