Gritstone Ram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tombo said: With regards to the stadium, I have a question on this. When MM bought the stadium for £80m, one assumes we haven't actually had that £80m lump sum? If we have, where did it all go? I know we have massive losses but that is obscene. If we haven't, when can we expect the money from him? How can he own the stadium if he hasn't paid us for it yet? I suspect he used the money he paid for the stadium to pay off a loan the club owed him. Tombo and twelveincher 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: No there is no such rule. Of course EFL could make one up just for us. They have previous. There will be a further penalty. The EFL always revisit. They disgust me. I am praying for a whistleblower. They will be found out one day. It’s been going on for years as they hide behind opaque procedures that can seemingly be changed or invented on a whim. Ramarena, angieram, uttoxram75 and 8 others 3 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Curtains said: Wasn’t that figure used purely for FFP purposes ! Yeah but it can't have been made up, surely there actually exists an agreement signed by Morris and the club that states he is to pay this figure? As @Gritstone Ramsays above, maybe he offset it against a loan we owed him. Which is a serious Bamford move if so. Repossess the stadium from the club he purports to love Curtains, r_wilcockson, AbuDerbyDave and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tombo said: With regards to the stadium, I have a question on this. When MM bought the stadium for £80m, one assumes we haven't actually had that £80m lump sum? If we have, where did it all go? I know we have massive losses but that is obscene. If we haven't, when can we expect the money from him? How can he own the stadium if he hasn't paid us for it yet? I’d assume that it just sat as money owed to Mel Morris, there definitely won’t have been any physical transfer of money. It was purely paper based for FFP. I know nuffin, RadioactiveWaste and RAM1966 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I'm pretty sure Mel did "pay" himeself the full asking price of the stadium, one of his defences was if he'd sold it himself undervalued the taxman might be interested in him. Because it was between two companies he owned, I'm not sure hom the moving occured but there was some evidence of the transaction happening at the full value. Weather any company not owned by Mel Morris would've bought PP at that price, we'll never know. Just going back to the whole EFL ridiculus value back in the first hearing, were the ELF side thinking they'll give a really low figure (against DCFC's really high figure) and the tribunal will decide something in the middl was most likely real - then the tribunal decided "Derby had some credibility to thier evidence, EFL did not not, thus Derby's value is accepted. RAM1966, jono and glyn1957 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mckram said: I’d assume that it just sat as money owed to Mel Morris, there definitely won’t have been any physical transfer of money. It was purely paper based for FFP. Right, but the money is owed to Derby County Football Club, who previously owned the stadium, not Mel Morris. So has he paid us? REDCAR and r_wilcockson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: I'm pretty sure Mel did "pay" himeself the full asking price of the stadium, one of his defences was if he'd sold it himself undervalued the taxman might be interested in him. Because it was between two companies he owned, I'm not sure hom the moving occured but there was some evidence of the transaction happening at the full value. Weather any company not owned by Mel Morris would've bought PP at that price, we'll never know. Just going back to the whole EFL ridiculus value back in the first hearing, were the ELF side thinking they'll give a really low figure (against DCFC's really high figure) and the tribunal will decide something in the middl was most likely real - then the tribunal decided "Derby had some credibility to thier evidence, EFL did not not, thus Derby's value is accepted. To be fair, the EFL went with the upper figure from the value rnsge they were given. It's just that the valuer thought the standard of stadium was on par with Morecambe's (3 terraced stands) based it on replacing PPS with one at 80% capacity. RadioactiveWaste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Hector was the best and uttoxram75 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tombo said: Right, but the money is owed to Derby County Football Club, who previously owned the stadium, not Mel Morris. So has he paid us? He’s paid us by putting in millions every year to keep us afloat. The season we sold the stadium for £80m we made a profit of £14m…only £14m. So that means he’s effectively paid £66m out on wages/transfer fees/heat/light/power etc. I guarantee he paid and more. twelveincher, kevinhectoring and jono 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Mckram said: He’s paid us by putting in millions every year to keep us afloat. The season we sold the stadium for £80m we made a profit of £14m…only £14m. So that means he’s effectively paid £66m out on wages/transfer fees/heat/light/power etc. I guarantee he paid and more. That's hardly the point is it? He repossessed the stadium to pay debts that he got us in to Fla Ram, r_wilcockson and twelveincher 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mckram said: He’s paid us by putting in millions every year to keep us afloat. The season we sold the stadium for £80m we made a profit of £14m…only £14m. So that means he’s effectively paid £66m out on wages/transfer fees/heat/light/power etc. I guarantee he paid and more. He only had to put in that money because of his profligate spending! FlyBritishMidland, twelveincher and EtoileSportiveDeDerby 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, Tombo said: That's hardly the point is it? He repossessed the stadium to pay debts that he got us in to You asked if we got the £80m so I was just trying to explain that it’s not the case of an £80m bank transfer but we did get it. But on the point of the ethics behind it, at the time he was trying to keep us as competitive as possible and compete against parachute payments. Looking back now yes it was totally the wrong thing to do, but what if we somehow managed to beat Villa…fairly certain there would be a statue of Mel outside the ground as crazy as that sounds. RenegadeRam, Tombo, kevinhectoring and 8 others 4 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufus Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Barney1991 said: Admin merge with administration thread please can’t be doing with all these different pages Better than having to trawl through all of this pointless crap to find the important points. Should be left in seperate threads. JoetheRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 RadioactiveWaste and ariotofmyown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 36 minutes ago, Rev said: He only had to put in that money because of his profligate spending! Totally agree. Again though, if you’re Leeds/Villa/Bournemouth/Leicester/Wolves it’s paid off and the owners are still loved. It just shows how flawed the whole thing is. I can only think of Burnley and Norwich who have got up sustainably…maybe Brighton? Even then someone may prove me wrong. uttoxram75, angieram, Hector was the best and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, Mckram said: Totally agree. Again though, if you’re Leeds/Villa/Bournemouth/Leicester/Wolves it’s paid off and the owners are still loved. It just shows how flawed the whole thing is. I can only think of Burnley and Norwich who have got up sustainably…maybe Brighton? Even then someone may prove me wrong. A few seem to have stabilised... Southampton, Palace. But then I thought Bournemouth had and you can still blow up and they've shown that one bad season and relegation is quite hard to turnaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R@M Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 6 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Your post is a shameless attempt to boost the count. And so's this one. Errrm… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Hoping I can speak for the majority of fans when I say the following: Whoever in their right mind is willing to even consider buying a football club in a poor state, never mind the state that Melvyn Morris left us in, earns my respect completely. Whether it be the Binnie family, whether it be Appleby and co. Whether it will be Mike Ashley, or whoever else, Thank you. Thank you for wanting to turn this football club around, get us out the pooper, and allowing us to continue to be a football club. Whoever takes over, I hope they understand that they will be supported by one of the greatest fanbases in England (And yes, that may be biased, although the support we have shown for this club, throughout the poo that we’ve been through, is genuinely surreal). I hope that whoever it is who buys us, understands how much this football club means to it’s staff, it’s fans, and it’s local community, and I hope that whatever may happen, that we will have our Derby County to enjoy, to allow us to take our minds out of reality, to allow us that safe space away from demons one may face in the real world, to allow us to be able to rally together, have a bloody good laugh and a good time, and to ultimately support this fantastic, amazing, bloody stressful club. Come On You Rams. Let’s make ourselves known these next two games, let’s show the world what Derby COUNTY is all about, and what an honour it would be for anyone to own a football club with such appreciative and passionate supporters. ???? r_wilcockson, Hector was the best, wingfieldram and 28 others 18 5 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mckram said: Totally agree. Again though, if you’re Leeds/Villa/Bournemouth/Leicester/Wolves it’s paid off and the owners are still loved. It just shows how flawed the whole thing is. I can only think of Burnley and Norwich who have got up sustainably…maybe Brighton? Even then someone may prove me wrong. Erm, I can only help prove you more right... https://theathletic.com/news/brighton-loan-finances-debt-latest/ESzqXFHhLNBI/%3famp=1 Edited January 22, 2022 by Mihangel Mckram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 @kevinhectoring @duncanjwitham @davenportram thanks for your posts late yesterday. Appreciated. I had seen the BAWT minutes, but did skim through them whilst working, but had not seen Morris had agreed to grant a purchase option on the stadium post-Administration. Perhaps I am blind to anything good Morris might do ?? That does make the Binnie offer more workable, as presumably the offer of £28m has been made on the assumption that MSD will be (100%) happy to accept an extended term loan on the current debt, cross supported still by personal guarantee and third party stadium security from Mel and Gellaw, confirmed football debtors will get 100%, and HMRC and unsecured creditors 25% each, all under a CVA arrangement. The EFL also can retain their tenuous hold on the arbitration claims being contingent football creditors. The above said, I personally still would like to see a deal proceed where we get the stadium back now, Morris is consigned to the waste bin of football history, and the EFL and Gibson crushed in a Court of Law. 3 points today would be the cherry on top. Derby4Me, duncanjwitham, Hector was the best and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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