Please sack them NOW

[MuespachRam]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We were 2 points off safety with 35 games to go. Finished above Wendies because of their points deduction. Coventry, Luton, Brum and Udders pulled away from us. We haven’t been top of the League this season. What an achievement ?

So, we were bottom of the league, and didn’t get relegated but somehow this is not an improvement….? 

we were top of the league for 14 minutes on Saturday. 

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Rubbish, how many points have we got after 2 games ?

[Jimbo Ram]

7 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

So, we were bottom of the league, and didn’t get relegated but somehow this is not an improvement….? 

we were top of the league for 14 minutes on Saturday. 

Stop embarrassing yourself…..

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Rubbish, how many points have we got after 2 games ?

That was a genuine league table snapshot. It’s not fake. 

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, Mostyn6 said:

That was a genuine league table snapshot. It’s not fake. 

Yes I know….didn’t end that way though. Snapshot the league table now ?

[GboroRam]

50 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I take issue with this, just as i did when people said it about Nigel Clough’s team. You cannot say a player isn’t good enough until you’ve seen them playing at their optimum level. 
 

it lies at the manager’s door to get the players playing optimally. Then when you can see a player playing his best, but we still lose, then the players aren’t good enough. 

A number of our players were signed as free agents on comparatively low salaries. If they were good enough to demand a bigger salary they would be playing elsewhere. 

A generalisation, but I think it is fair to say that our team is unlikely to deliver quality consistently. I think there's a good argument that, particularly in depth, we will be deficient this season. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Lampard didn't cost us. What's happened to us was always going to happen, Lampard's season just happened to be the last one before it. I think we spent around £13m on players that season but also sold £13m worth anyway. 

If your number for sales includes the 10m for vydra, then from what we've learnt of our amortisation methods, we probably made very little accounting profit as we hadn't written down his value much. 

In fact, I wonder if all our creative accounting was aimed at freeing up budget for a last frankie roll of the dice. 

Wembley 2019 was when the rot really started as we realised not only had we failed again, we were stuck with all of Frank's dross..... ?

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Lampard didn’t cost us? Can you tell me how much we got for selling Waghorn, Marriott, Malone and Jozefzoon. Can you tell me how much we spent on loan fees and wages for one year developing Mount, Tomori and Wilson for Chelsea and Liverpool blocking pathways for our own youngsters. Not that it was all his fault as someone was signing the cheques (not that Mel accepts any blame for his largesse).

Lampard didn't force us to buy those players. Managers don't get 100% say of which players we sign, that's our recruitment teams fault. The only loan fee we paid for was Wilson which was £2m. He also improved Bogle who we went on to sell. Besides, we got within one game of getting £170m+ so it wasn't like it was all pointless. 

[europia]

On 14/08/2021 at 17:05, Archied said:

How long since a league win ? what style are we trying to play ? It’s a shambles on the field with a decent starting 11 , we are open as hell down our right , disjointed going forward and disorganised in defence ,, it’s a joke , ex player with zero management skills and ex pundit with no skill either ,, please god give it to wassell over these clowns 

Not sure that Wassall is the answer, but he probably couldn't do any worse. It's patently obvious that the manager and coaching staff are not up to it, but as mentioned in other posts, the club can't afford to sack Rooney, and he seems intent on staying at the club to the bitter end. What a miserable situation the club has been dragged into. 

[DCFC Kicks]

9 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

If your number for sales includes the 10m for vydra, then from what we've learnt of our amortisation methods, we probably made very little accounting profit as we hadn't written down his value much. 

In fact, I wonder if all our creative accounting was aimed at freeing up budget for a last frankie roll of the dice. 

Wembley 2019 was when the rot really started as we realised not only had we failed again, we were stuck with all of Frank's dross..... ?

It wasn't Frank's fault personally, whoever happened to be manager during the 18/19 season was going to be the last roll of the dice. But that was Mel's gamble and his fault it ended up that way. But if it was Mel's last roll of the dice then Lampard made a pretty good go of it and it almost worked.

Why is it Frank's dross? It's more our recruitment team. 

[i-Ram]

10 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Lampard didn't force us to buy those players. Managers don't get 100% say of which players we sign, that's our recruitment teams fault. The only loan fee we paid for was Wilson which was £2m. He also improved Bogle who we went on to sell. Besides, we got within one game of getting £170m+ so it wasn't like it was all pointless. 

Thanks Christine. 

[Bris Vegas]

3 hours ago, Monty said:

I gave up on cocu after the charlton away game - I was at the match and could see no future with him 

my concern with Rooney is him learning on the job in very difficult circumstances 

example without wishing to sound like a football manager geek (I don’t play it) having looked at the post game analyses we have had the same formation in our three games against sides playing three different formations - is this good management or not being adaptable 

Cocu got a pretty average Derby team to tenth during his first season in charge despite everything that went against him. Sibley, Bird and Knight all performed far better under him.

His transfer targets such as Dursun, Panzo and Moore had brilliant seasons last year.

Cocu was a slow burner. But he improved players and could spot potential transfer targets to move us forward. His time at PSV proved with the right pieces in place, he could succeed.

But he was undermined by Wayne Rooney's arrival while restricted from making any signings due to the circumstances caused by Mel Morris. Bizarre you would give up on him after the Charlton away game, which was about 10 game into his first season, working with an average squad. What were you expecting? Bielsa-ball?

There were signs after that we were on the right track. Like the back-to-back wins over Sheffield Wednesday and Blackburn, the latter a crushing 3-0 win where Wayne Rooney didn't even play.

Post lockdown, we still had momentum and Louie Sibley was being talked about as a potential superstar. But by that point, Rooney's fitness was so dire we were starting games with ten players.

Cocu's job come the second season was impossible. We were obliged to play Rooney who was awful, while we started the season without a recognised striker due to an embargo and the Martin fiasco.

The subsequent improvement in form after Cocu's exit was down to Rooney retiring and Krystian Bielik coming back. Not only were we playing with 11 men again, but we had arguably the best midfielder in the league absolutely running it for us. 

[Bris Vegas]

As mentioned, Wayne Rooney has yet to win a game as Derby County manager without Krystian Bielik or Lee Gregory starting. Phillip Cocu also had neither of those players.

Rooney hasn't done any better with the same set of players than Cocu did. In fact, he has done worse and he had the luxury of being able to sign FOUR other players (Gregory aside) during the January transfer window.

The point of this post isn't even to make Rooney look like a poor manager. I think this squad is poor and Rooney's hands are tied. We're in for a long season and January may be our only hope of survival.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

As mentioned, Wayne Rooney has yet to win a game as Derby County manager without Krystian Bielik or Lee Gregory starting. Phillip Cocu also had neither of those players.

Who did Cocu have that Rooney hasn't? I'll start - Martin.

[Bris Vegas]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who did Cocu have that Rooney hasn't? I'll start - Martin.

Chris Martin wasn't here last season. He started the 2020-21 season with exactly the same players Rooney had minus the FIVE loan signings. Take one of those loan signings out (Lee Gregory) and Rooney's record now stands at Played 12 Won 0 Draw 2 Lose 10. Two points from a possible 36.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Phillip Cocu record more points at the beginning of last season compared to Wayne Rooney's end-of-season record? Rooney had exactly the same players + Mengi, Edmundson, Roberts and Baningime.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Bris Vegas

[Van der MoodHoover]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who did Cocu have that Rooney hasn't? I'll start - Martin.

He also had Wayne Rooney ?

Who was fat and shot at the start of 2020 - 2021 season, but actually was pretty good when he started mid season in 2019-2020. 

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Stop embarrassing yourself…..

Facts are facts. 

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Yes I know….didn’t end that way though. Snapshot the league table now ?

You mean the league table that now says we are level on pints with Sheffield United and 1 win away from being top….??? Yeah grim. 

[Brammie Steve]

4 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

You mean the league table that now says we are level on pints with Sheffield United and 1 win away from being top….??? Yeah grim. 

Level on pints?

Make sure they take a taxi home!

[Red Ram]

48 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Cocu got a pretty average Derby team to tenth during his first season in charge despite everything that went against him. Sibley, Bird and Knight all performed far better under him.

His transfer targets such as Dursun, Panzo and Moore had brilliant seasons last year.

Cocu was a slow burner. But he improved players and could spot potential transfer targets to move us forward. His time at PSV proved with the right pieces in place, he could succeed.

But he was undermined by Wayne Rooney's arrival while restricted from making any signings due to the circumstances caused by Mel Morris. Bizarre you would give up on him after the Charlton away game, which was about 10 game into his first season, working with an average squad. What were you expecting? Bielsa-ball?

There were signs after that we were on the right track. Like the back-to-back wins over Sheffield Wednesday and Blackburn, the latter a crushing 3-0 win where Wayne Rooney didn't even play.

Post lockdown, we still had momentum and Louie Sibley was being talked about as a potential superstar. But by that point, Rooney's fitness was so dire we were starting games with ten players.

Cocu's job come the second season was impossible. We were obliged to play Rooney who was awful, while we started the season without a recognised striker due to an embargo and the Martin fiasco.

The subsequent improvement in form after Cocu's exit was down to Rooney retiring and Krystian Bielik coming back. Not only were we playing with 11 men again, but we had arguably the best midfielder in the league absolutely running it for us. 

Agree with every word of that Bris