Trusting Sibley and setting up to attack or defend

[Carl Sagan]

Do we set up to score goals or to not concede goals? The Euros saw Gareth Southgate pick 8 or 9 defensive players every game and it worked for a while but couldn't get him over the line, with an incredible array of attacking talent on his bench. Rooney has far fewer options but a very similar mindset.

Asked in today's Radio Derby interview why Louie Sibley doesn't start Rooney effectively said he doesn't trust him defensively. Sibbo is to Rooney what Jack Grealish is to Southgate. Rooney said he didn't play Sibbo specifically because his number one priority was not to fall behind in the match.

Here's the interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09pv3hb with the best version of the interview at 46:30.

Derby's problem is not scoring goals. Louie Sibley is the biggest goal threat our team has. Aston Villa built their team around Grealish until selling him for £100m. If Derby are going to survive (and maybe thrive) this season we need to build our team around Sibbo, not give him a cameo in which to try to make the difference. How best to do this?

I have long argued that the 4-2-3-1 does not work for us and we should be playing 4-3-3 (set up as 4-1-2-3). With the players available at the moment we should have Shinnie shielding the defence and then we can have Morrison and Sibley as the two more forward midfielders, which gives a forward line of Kazim-Richards central and Jozwiak and Thomas wide. So much more threatening than what we have at the moment.

With a team desperate for goals, having your 5 most dangerous attacking players in the line-up seems a no brainer. Rooney needs to learn to trust Sibley, and I am certain that trust would be rewarded.

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Do we set up to score goals or to not concede goals? The Euros saw Gareth Southgate pick 8 or 9 defensive players every game and it worked for a while but couldn't get him over the line, with an incredible array of attacking talent on his bench. Rooney has far fewer options but a very similar mindset.

Asked in today's Radio Derby interview why Louie Sibley doesn't start Rooney effectively said he doesn't trust him defensively. Sibbo is to Rooney what Jack Grealish is to Southgate. Rooney said he didn't play Sibbo specifically because his number one priority was not to fall behind in the match.

Here's the interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09pv3hb with the best version of the interview at 46:30.

Derby's problem is not scoring goals. Louie Sibley is the biggest goal threat our team has. Aston Villa built their team around Grealish until selling him for £100m. If Derby are going to survive (and maybe thrive) this season we need to build our team around Sibbo, not give him a cameo in which to try to make the difference. How best to do this?

I have long argued that the 4-2-3-1 does not work for us and we should be playing 4-3-3 (set up as 4-1-2-3). With the players available at the moment we should have Shinnie shielding the defence and then we can have Morrison and Sibley as the two more forward midfielders, which gives a forward line of Kazim-Richards central and Jozwiak and Thomas wide. So much more threatening than what we have at the moment.

With a team desperate for goals, having your 5 most dangerous attacking players in the line-up seems a no brainer. Rooney needs to learn to trust Sibley, and I am certain that trust would be rewarded.

Sibbo would be in my team ?

[Big Trav]

I think the problem for us right now is the transitions. We look so open on the counter. Bird and shinnie overrun in midfield. I definatly think a retweak in system is needed. I’d definatly go for the 433 with sibley and bird as the runners 

[Tyler Durden]

I think the learning curve is overly extended tbf, I hope we haven't moved from setting up our team to match our opponents to setting up our team to avoid defeat. Though with the latter I can understand needs must depending on getting reinforcements through the door. 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Derby's problem is not scoring goals. Louie Sibley is the biggest goal threat our team has. Aston Villa built their team around Grealish until selling him for £100m. If Derby are going to survive (and maybe thrive) this season we need to build our team around Sibbo, not give him a cameo in which to try to make the difference. How best to do this?

When Sibley is good enough to do it. He isn't at the moment. He had nearly all of the second half, hardly a cameo. All of the players played their part today. Watson looked as threatening as Sibley but in a different way.

[rammieib]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

When Sibley is good enough to do it. He isn't at the moment. He had nearly all of the second half, hardly a cameo. All of the players played their part today. Watson looked as threatening as Sibley but in a different way.

Sorry but Sibley was the most threatening of our front five and only played for forty minutes.

He needs to start as he’s the most likely one to score and/or create for me.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Sorry but Sibley was the most threatening of our front five and only played for forty minutes.

He needs to start as he’s the most likely one to score and/or create for me.

And yet he didn't.

He's fine coming on as a sub atm. Morrison will be starting I'd have thought.

[rammieib]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

And yet he didn't.

He's fine coming on as a sub atm. Morrison will be starting I'd have thought.

I want to like Jozwiak but it’s difficult to. That moment he was running through and was too scared to shoot sums him up.

Ravel, Tom and Louis? He won’t do it because of the defensive cover but Id like to see it.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, rammieib said:

I want to like Jozwiak but it’s difficult to. That moment he was running through and was too scared to shoot sums him up.

Ravel, Tom and Louis? He won’t do it because of the defensive cover but Id like to see it.

First game of the season, yes he perhaps should have shot or passed, and then did neither. Maybe he feels the pressure as his mistakes are pilloried it seems, whereas others aren't treated as harshly?

[DCFC1388]

15 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

I think the problem for us right now is the transitions. We look so open on the counter. Bird and shinnie overrun in midfield. I definatly think a retweak in system is needed. I’d definatly go for the 433 with sibley and bird as the runners 

I think that was the case today against a team that played 352 bit it wont always be the case. We just need to adjust our positions better when faced with a different formation.

Their wingbacks pinned our fullbacks, their 2 forwards pressed our 2 cbs, lawrence pressed 1 of their cbs as well as CKR, Watson/Jozwiak positioning was poor as they didnt press the 3rd cb or their wingbacks enough which basically left Huddersfield with 3 cms vs our 2

[Carl Sagan]

Watching the extended highlights, Sibley had three decent efforts, two narrowly missing and one on his weaker foot arrowing into the top corner, but well saved. Our only other attempts worth showing were the scrambled own goal at the back post and Kazim-Richards beaten to a header.

As a manager, Rooney needs to see it is his number one priority to find a way to fit our most dangerous player in the team. That he cannot see this tells me he's not capable of dong the job.

[LeedsCityRam]

22 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Do we set up to score goals or to not concede goals? The Euros saw Gareth Southgate pick 8 or 9 defensive players every game and it worked for a while but couldn't get him over the line, with an incredible array of attacking talent on his bench. Rooney has far fewer options but a very similar mindset.

Asked in today's Radio Derby interview why Louie Sibley doesn't start Rooney effectively said he doesn't trust him defensively. Sibbo is to Rooney what Jack Grealish is to Southgate. Rooney said he didn't play Sibbo specifically because his number one priority was not to fall behind in the match.

Here's the interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09pv3hb with the best version of the interview at 46:30.

Derby's problem is not scoring goals. Louie Sibley is the biggest goal threat our team has. Aston Villa built their team around Grealish until selling him for £100m. If Derby are going to survive (and maybe thrive) this season we need to build our team around Sibbo, not give him a cameo in which to try to make the difference. How best to do this?

I have long argued that the 4-2-3-1 does not work for us and we should be playing 4-3-3 (set up as 4-1-2-3). With the players available at the moment we should have Shinnie shielding the defence and then we can have Morrison and Sibley as the two more forward midfielders, which gives a forward line of Kazim-Richards central and Jozwiak and Thomas wide. So much more threatening than what we have at the moment.

With a team desperate for goals, having your 5 most dangerous attacking players in the line-up seems a no brainer. Rooney needs to learn to trust Sibley, and I am certain that trust would be rewarded.

Agree with general sentiment, Rooney needs to find a place for Sibley. We need that direct running & unpredictability in the side.

Not sure a 4-1-2-3 with Shinnie sitting would suit him though. Firstly we need a better DM on the ball than Shinnie with CBs who are primarily defenders & not that confortable on the ball. Only one DM also limits our full backs from getting up the park (big part of our armoury). I also tend to agree with Rooney that Sibley isn't that reliable defensively & also wouldn't want his freedom to try things clipped by worrying about the opposition running onto a back 4/5.

Id play Sibley as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1...he would have insurance with the sitting midfielders (so minimal defensive duties), be tasked to play as close as possible to Kazim & find those pockets of space just in front of their back 4 or run beyond Kazim.  As an aside, I'd like us to move away from Shinnie as a DM & to players who can control the game better....Bielik on his return obviously but like the look of Thompson & would be intrigued to see him & Bird sat in front of the back 4.

[Edinburgh ram]

I can’t for the life of me understand why Sibley never gets a solid run of starts within the side. As others have mentioned he’s clearly our most threatening attacking player and for us to reap the rewards he can bring, he needs that time to settle into the team and build confidence. 
 

Considering how thin our squad is, surely we should be trying to find a system that suits most of not all of our best players. Rather than playing this defensive system which results in some being played out of position and others being left on the bench. 
 

We tried the tentative defensive system in the 2nd half of last season and look where it got us. I’d say revert back to 433 and have a go for once. We’re already favourites for relegation so what do we have to lose. 

[Rampage]

22 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Do we set up to score goals or to not concede goals? The Euros saw Gareth Southgate pick 8 or 9 defensive players every game and it worked for a while but couldn't get him over the line, with an incredible array of attacking talent on his bench. Rooney has far fewer options but a very similar mindset.

Asked in today's Radio Derby interview why Louie Sibley doesn't start Rooney effectively said he doesn't trust him defensively. Sibbo is to Rooney what Jack Grealish is to Southgate. Rooney said he didn't play Sibbo specifically because his number one priority was not to fall behind in the match.

Here's the interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09pv3hb with the best version of the interview at 46:30.

Derby's problem is not scoring goals. Louie Sibley is the biggest goal threat our team has. Aston Villa built their team around Grealish until selling him for £100m. If Derby are going to survive (and maybe thrive) this season we need to build our team around Sibbo, not give him a cameo in which to try to make the difference. How best to do this?

I have long argued that the 4-2-3-1 does not work for us and we should be playing 4-3-3 (set up as 4-1-2-3). With the players available at the moment we should have Shinnie shielding the defence and then we can have Morrison and Sibley as the two more forward midfielders, which gives a forward line of Kazim-Richards central and Jozwiak and Thomas wide. So much more threatening than what we have at the moment.

With a team desperate for goals, having your 5 most dangerous attacking players in the line-up seems a no brainer. Rooney needs to learn to trust Sibley, and I am certain that trust would be rewarded.

Sibbo is a sub after 60 minutes for me, certainly until we get all our triallists signed up and settled in.

[Ramarena]

22 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Do we set up to score goals or to not concede goals? The Euros saw Gareth Southgate pick 8 or 9 defensive players every game and it worked for a while but couldn't get him over the line, with an incredible array of attacking talent on his bench. Rooney has far fewer options but a very similar mindset.

Asked in today's Radio Derby interview why Louie Sibley doesn't start Rooney effectively said he doesn't trust him defensively. Sibbo is to Rooney what Jack Grealish is to Southgate. Rooney said he didn't play Sibbo specifically because his number one priority was not to fall behind in the match.

Here's the interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09pv3hb with the best version of the interview at 46:30.

Derby's problem is not scoring goals. Louie Sibley is the biggest goal threat our team has. Aston Villa built their team around Grealish until selling him for £100m. If Derby are going to survive (and maybe thrive) this season we need to build our team around Sibbo, not give him a cameo in which to try to make the difference. How best to do this?

I have long argued that the 4-2-3-1 does not work for us and we should be playing 4-3-3 (set up as 4-1-2-3). With the players available at the moment we should have Shinnie shielding the defence and then we can have Morrison and Sibley as the two more forward midfielders, which gives a forward line of Kazim-Richards central and Jozwiak and Thomas wide. So much more threatening than what we have at the moment.

With a team desperate for goals, having your 5 most dangerous attacking players in the line-up seems a no brainer. Rooney needs to learn to trust Sibley, and I am certain that trust would be rewarded.

Morrison will start ahead of sibbo even though the defensive side of his game is pretty weak.

[Rammy03]

22 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

First game of the season, yes he perhaps should have shot or passed, and then did neither. Maybe he feels the pressure as his mistakes are pilloried it seems, whereas others aren't treated as harshly?

It's because of the 4m price tag. Sibley, for example, cost us nothing and came through our academy.

[JMC]

For me the one player we have to make this all work is Biliek.. Think back to the recent years of Eustace and Thorne allowing our attackers to thrive. Until he comes back I'm not sure we can cope with 1 defensive midfielder? Shinnie? I would like to see Rooney try this though 

[jimbo jones]

I thought Bird and Shinnie were too deep, which led to Lawrence coming too deep, which left the front 4 being nowhere near each other far too often. Was that by design to keep a solid shape? If so, I can sort of see why you'd go that way to start the game, with the lack of players. But that was a game that was there to win in the second half.

[LeedsCityRam]

10 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

I thought Bird and Shinnie were too deep, which led to Lawrence coming too deep, which left the front 4 being nowhere near each other far too often. Was that by design to keep a solid shape? If so, I can sort of see why you'd go that way to start the game, with the lack of players. But that was a game that was there to win in the second half.

It was a deliberate tactic I think Jimbo. Full backs get up the park, Bird & Shinnie fill their space whilst Lawrence picks the ball up from deep in their position. Problem yesterday was their wing backs were very high & played well so Byrne in particular was pinned back. Consequently it all looked too deep & why Kazim was isolated/Sibley was our only real threat.

Argument for Rooney abandoning that as a tactic once it was obvious how easily Huddersfield were neutering us. Like OP suggests, perhaps he just wanted any kind of positive result yesterday so didnt mind the solidity. Think he got the Sibley>Watson & Ebosele>Jozwiak subs spot on both in terms of personnel & timing so not too critical of him overall.

[San Fran Van Rams]

26 minutes ago, JMC said:

For me the one player we have to make this all work is Biliek.. Think back to the recent years of Eustace and Thorne allowing our attackers to thrive. Until he comes back I'm not sure we can cope with 1 defensive midfielder? Shinnie? I would like to see Rooney try this though 

Completely agree. Think we'll see more of Sibley when Bielik is back, or at least thats when there'll be more comfort in playing him. Bielik is going to be the key for us and I just hope he's going to come back strong before the end of September. It'll give the rest of the attack so much more leeway defensively, and should also give us that much needed creativity. I do think a midfield of Bielik, Morrison and Sibley with Bird and Shinnie available on rotation will be a force in this division.

The current defensive mentality does worry me a bit. Our defense isn't particularly strong and is an injury away from a crisis. However, it feels as though it's out of necessity at the mo - we can't really afford to concede more than 1 a game.