Trusting Sibley and setting up to attack or defend

[Rich84]

19 minutes ago, enachops said:

For a team so desperate for a goal threat, it’s criminal we’re not using Sibley more. Play him centrally, off Kazim and he’ll easily get double figures. 

This for me, he is being asked to play out of position out wide too often, where he also needs to be more aware defensively. 

It also means Lawrence goes wide left again which I believe he is better as it allows him to drive inside at the defence, he drifted wide once on Saturday and drove forwards with the ball, think the team would be better balanced with Lawrence wide and Sibley central.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rich84
Typo

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, Rampage said:

If Sibbo wants to play and start regularly for Wayne then he will have to do what Wayne requires. Same at most clubs really. He should therefore concentrate on those changes as he has enormous potential.

Rooney has told Sibley that young Louie is not part of his plans. I really don't see what Sibley can do to change that. The fault lies with the manager not the player and it's the manager who needs to change his ideas.

[ramit]

i don't like central attacking midfielders in a setup.  i prefer steel and velvet in central midfield, if Sibley can adapt to being a forward thinking creative central midfielder, that would do me fine.  Preferred formation 442 with a variant, the left midfielder further up in the attacking winger position accompanied by fast forwards and fullbacks.  A 433 with a twist i suppose.  Man marking, lots of pressing, high tempo, mixed passing, 1 quick last man central defender, 1 ball playing central defender. 

i can dream

[rammieib]

Imagine being a pro footballer abs told you’re only good for the last 30 minutes of a game.

[Rampage]

43 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Imagine being a pro footballer abs told you’re only good for the last 30 minutes of a game.

For a developing player, 30 minutes is better than no minutes. You then have to do enough to get more minutes.

[Rampage]

57 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Rooney has told Sibley that young Louie is not part of his plans. I really don't see what Sibley can do to change that. The fault lies with the manager not the player and it's the manager who needs to change his ideas.

 Like many other issues. We will see what happens.

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I doubt this will be true if we're in a scrap. Wazza will be safety first all season.

I agree.

[WamRam]

On 07/08/2021 at 19:27, Big Trav said:

I think the problem for us right now is the transitions. We look so open on the counter. Bird and shinnie overrun in midfield. I definatly think a retweak in system is needed. I’d definatly go for the 433 with sibley and bird as the runners 

Have you seen Max Bird run?

[jono]

9 hours ago, Rampage said:

Watson is better than Holmes was.

Yes, I think he is too. Despite  his parting shots, I liked Duane. He was a worker with some good skills. In that sense we have an “improvement” we just found it in the back of the cupboard. Lost a penny, found a sixpence. 

[jono]

8 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I watched Sibley numerous times for the academy and a few times for the first team. I genuinely haven’t see anything wrong with the lad’s ability to defend or help the defence. He’s much more likely to put his body on the line than 90% of the attacking midfielders in the Championship. He’s also the most accomplished ball carrier this team has, in all honesty that’s not even close to being debatable. 

Sibley has the highest ceiling of any player this club has and he’s the only person we have that is capable of offering what we need. It’s football’s greatest crime that he isn’t in this Derby team week in, week out. It’s a travesty that he has to be at such a poorly run club whilst he’s developing, at least give him the freedom of pride park to generate some excitement for the poor bar stewards that are going to have to sit and watch through the season! 

I think you’re right. I also think, despite what the gossips say, that Rooney knows it. I think Rooney is doing it slowly, doesn’t want to throw him in to the ring too early and also Rooney has a cautious mind set. We will see more of Sibbo as the season develops.

[uttoxram75]

9 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I doubt this will be true if we're in a scrap. Wazza will be safety first all season.

We'll see. I believe Wazza will see Sibbo's worth in the run in, I hope so, could be the difference between play offs and auto.

 

(that is the type of scrap you meant I take it).

Edited August 9, 2021 by uttoxram75
spelling.

[RoyMac5]

Seems Rooney trusted Sibs to try and nick a win. How very dare he!

"I thought Sibs and Festy did well when they came on," Rooney said.

"That was a plan I came up with Saturday morning. I knew if we had conceded the first goal, especially early on, it would be difficult, it could have been a different atmosphere had that been the case.

I wanted to stay in the game, and I felt with Sibs and Festy, they are both unpredictable players and can do things off the cuff and at pace, and felt they could cause problems in the last 20 minutes and we could nick a win, and it nearly happened, it nearly worked."

Derbyshire Live (derbytelegraph.co.uk)

[Rampage]

On 07/08/2021 at 19:42, rammieib said:

I want to like Jozwiak but it’s difficult to. That moment he was running through and was too scared to shoot sums him up.

Ravel, Tom and Louis? He won’t do it because of the defensive cover but Id like to see it.

Worth a try when we are losing the game and do not look like scoring.

[MuespachRam]

13 hours ago, Rampage said:

If Sibbo wants to play and start regularly for Wayne then he will have to do what Wayne requires. Same at most clubs really. He should therefore concentrate on those changes as he has enormous potential.

Perfectly put sir. 
It’s amazing how good players get when they aren’t playing…. He isn’t the  greatest player ever to play the game; he has talent that is for sure but he needs to listen to the manager and do more of what he is telling him to do before he starts to play regularly. 

[IlsonDerby]

18 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Agree with general sentiment, Rooney needs to find a place for Sibley. We need that direct running & unpredictability in the side.

Not sure a 4-1-2-3 with Shinnie sitting would suit him though. Firstly we need a better DM on the ball than Shinnie with CBs who are primarily defenders & not that confortable on the ball. Only one DM also limits our full backs from getting up the park (big part of our armoury). I also tend to agree with Rooney that Sibley isn't that reliable defensively & also wouldn't want his freedom to try things clipped by worrying about the opposition running onto a back 4/5.

Id play Sibley as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1...he would have insurance with the sitting midfielders (so minimal defensive duties), be tasked to play as close as possible to Kazim & find those pockets of space just in front of their back 4 or run beyond Kazim.  As an aside, I'd like us to move away from Shinnie as a DM & to players who can control the game better....Bielik on his return obviously but like the look of Thompson & would be intrigued to see him & Bird sat in front of the back 4.

Think this is harsh on Shinnie. Think he gets typecast as a Bryson but he’s much better technically on the ball. 
He sprayed a ball out first time under pressure on the half volley across the turf to Hutchinson and if Bielik had done it we’d be watching it on highlight reels. 
 

The fact is you can’t play Ahinnie there because he isn’t a holding midfielder. It’s not his passing ability it’s that vision you need to spot the danger before it happens whereas he spots it as it happens and often gets the job done. 

[nottingram]

My problem with Rooney’s treatment of Sibley is not that he doesn’t play every minute, it’s more that previously he would be given 10 minutes in a game and be expected to do something within that time to justify him getting longer next time.

It would almost be a self fulfilling prophecy whereby Rooney doesn’t trust Sibley so doesn’t play him often enough, then when he does play Sibley is overly keen and perhaps gets involved in things he shouldn’t which in Rooney’s mind would justify him not trusting him.

So I was glad to see him get 40 minutes on Saturday and hope that that continues or that he gets a start soon. Couple of silly fouls one of which was in a dangerous area but also caused them more problems than anyone else did. Watson may provide more discipline but I can’t say I saw much to justify him being over Sibley on Saturday.

[Chris_Martin]

17 hours ago, JMC said:

For me the one player we have to make this all work is Biliek.. Think back to the recent years of Eustace and Thorne allowing our attackers to thrive. Until he comes back I'm not sure we can cope with 1 defensive midfielder? Shinnie? I would like to see Rooney try this though 

Agree that Bielik back at the base of a 4-3-3 is best, but we should still be able to pick up some decent results and get familiar with that system using Shinnie as the holding mid in the meantime. 

[Chris_Martin]

13 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

 

The fact is you can’t play Ahinnie there because he isn’t a holding midfielder. It’s not his passing ability it’s that vision you need to spot the danger before it happens whereas he spots it as it happens and often gets the job done. 

so what's the problem then ?

[Bianoic]

13 hours ago, rammieib said:

Imagine being a pro footballer abs told you’re only good for the last 30 minutes of a game.

Maybe its a question of Wayne not trusting Louie to stay on the pitch

The incident he got booked for could have ended up a red if he had actually connected with the Hudds player

I have seen referees send players off for doing what Loiue attempted there because there was no attempt at the ball and could be interpreted as deliberately injuring an opponent = dangerous play

I really like Sibley and really rate him. He made a big difference when he came on and was unfortunate not to win it for us.

But until the red mist stuff goes from his game, managers can't risk only having ten men.

Thankfully his current manager managed to deal with exactly the same issue in his own playing career, and at a similar age, , so hopefully Sibbo is in good hands

[LeedsCityRam]

4 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Think this is harsh on Shinnie. Think he gets typecast as a Bryson but he’s much better technically on the ball. 
He sprayed a ball out first time under pressure on the half volley across the turf to Hutchinson and if Bielik had done it we’d be watching it on highlight reels. 
 

The fact is you can’t play Ahinnie there because he isn’t a holding midfielder. It’s not his passing ability it’s that vision you need to spot the danger before it happens whereas he spots it as it happens and often gets the job done. 

That is true. On the flip side, his first touch was poor that first half on Saturday & his passing in general is slightly laboured or wayward. I don't agree at all that he's better technically than Bryson was.

He's popular because he's all energy, an honest lad & he got his head down and sought to improve himself when Cocu made it clear he wasn't part of his plans. I like him but like another crowd favourite (Bradley Johnson), he's a limited footballer & if we're looking to control games of football, particularly with defenders who aren't noted for their ability to play, then we need holding midfielder(s) with stronger/more consistent technique.