The UEFA European Championship 2020 Thread

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Give me a break; they were rubbish, they offered nothing at all. Their game plan was to kick Foden and waste time from minute 1. 
having said that, France and Italy would have beaten them by 6. 

Foden.. Was fouled 2 times, fouled 2 times. 

The story of the game is more eloquently told by his other stats... 

1 shot

2 crosses, 0 accurate

24 passes, 20 in the Scotland half, 1 key 80% accuracy 

4 long passes, 2 accurate. 

Expected goals 0.05

Creates a picture of safety first play. Not creative, not looking to open up Scotland with any incisive one touch play. 

Your narrative does not resonate with mine which basically repeats what I've seen from England down decades. When faced with a team who themselves are pedestrian as Croatia were, they try a few things and we all start salivating. When faced with a team prepared to run around, we retreat into shells and play safety first football and then start looking for set piece accuracy. 

We created nothing of note. One set piece header gifted by poor marking and a pot shot. 

[Curtains]

Wrong team picked by Southgate .

Needs to up his game. 

Phillips and Rice together in midfield reminds me of Johnson and Butterfield.

Get some creativity in there.

Grealish has to start. 

Leaving Ward Prowse out the squad was ridiculous 

[Curtains]

5 hours ago, Alpha said:

Is Rice a good player? I barely know anything about him. What does he do? 

I've only seen him for England and he's done nothing. As far as I can tell he's less stupid than Eric Dier but he looks like he's just happy to get a nice pass % and not mess anything up. 

Surely England can let Phillips do all that work and stick a slightly more responsible player in there? 

Just seems a waste of a shirt. Boring player?

 

Can’t play Rice and Phillips together .

One or other or neither for me. 

[BaaLocks]

Only person to come out of last night's game with credibility was Pep. That he can dominate a league with Sterling, Stones, Foden (on last night's performance) and Walker is impressive indeed. All are EPL quality, with flaws in their game, but none are beyond bang average at that level. Foden has the chance to develop and shows flashes (and I am being a little churlish including him in that critieue) but my point is that this England side is average, average,average. First time a decent test comes up they will be found wanting (last night was not a decent test btw - they should have won that game at a canter).

[Dimmu]

6 hours ago, Alpha said:

Is Rice a good player? I barely know anything about him. What does he do? 

I've only seen him for England and he's done nothing. As far as I can tell he's less stupid than Eric Dier but he looks like he's just happy to get a nice pass % and not mess anything up. 

Surely England can let Phillips do all that work and stick a slightly more responsible player in there? 

Just seems a waste of a shirt. Boring player?

 

IMO Rice is extremely important part of Southgate's puzzle. Stop him, like yesterday, and it kills your game.

I think he is good player, one of those "no-stats-allstars". Okay, allstar might be pushing it. Is he good enough to have such a role, is totally different question which falls to Southgate's shoulders. IMO, he is not even though I quite like his game.

[ariotofmyown]

England's problem for years in tournaments is that we play poorly, but do enough, vs weaker opposition. Then lose to the first decent team we come up against, usually with an improved level of performance.

In 2 games so far, we clearly deserved to beat the World Cup finalists, then laboured to a draw vs a well organised, defensive and mad for it Scots side. A draw yesterday was a fair result, plus we had the best chance.

The formation we are playing will be effective vs one of the best teams, especially when there is more space to attack into. The idea that you just throw all these good attacking players together and it suddenly all clicks is a fantasy.

England's arrogance used to be we'd win tournaments simply by believing that players like Gerrard, Rooney, Terry, Lampard were "world class".

The new arrogance is that now we have lots of genuinely good players, all you need is a couple of training sessions together and we'll play wonderful attacking football. We just need to pick x because y is rubbish.

I like Greslish and think maybe he should start, but the hype around him is crazy. The excitement around the ground when he was getting ready to come was a bit embarrassing I thought. If he starts the next game and does nothing, then it will shift to "Sancho has to start".

4 points vs our local rivals and the World Cup finalists is a decent start.

[Dimmu]

On 13/06/2021 at 19:07, Dimmu said:

Trademark goal from Southgate's team. I'm struggling to keep the count how many times that has worked and even though it is difficult to defend, it's not impossible. 

I'm at the same time surprised and not surprised at all that it happened. Mostly surprised how team such as Croatia didn't defend it better.

Might as well continue from my last post as it highlighted the problem already. Scotland did what they had to and with relative ease as well. Southgate is using game after game the same, structured attacking model. As such a result was always going to happen at some point, maybe it was beneficial to do it so early in the competition...

I have no idea why one chooses players like Foden, Mount, Grealish and Sterling and not give them freedom to create? I'd be gobsmacked if there wouldn't be better players for his style. Rashford would be one for starters. If you pick such a flair players, you have to give them freedom to use their strengths as well. Another question is, are there too many similar type of players in that trio behind Kane? IMO there is and that's the only reason I'd play Sterling all the time as he offers something different. Foden, Grealish and Mount are the new Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes. Just second-rate versions of them. If you don't choose them, you'll be sacrificed. If you choose them and they don't play well together, you won't get results and be sacrificed. Southgate went for the latter but with first option there would've been tiny chance to make himself a national hero.

And by the way, I hope those who have been vocal why we don't man mark in corners watched Stones opportunity very carefully. Damn good example how man-marking can be wrecked in seconds. Credit where it's due, it was brilliantly worked out set piece.

[Bob The Badger]

Both teams looked average tbh, although Scotland looked slightly less average.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried, but history tells us again and again that tournaments are rarely won by teams starting off fast and blazing through a competition.

It also tells us that England usually do better when they have a one or two iffy performances early on.

As for Southgate not knowing his best team.

Well...

Neither did Robson in 1986 until it was forced upon him by Bryan dislocating his should for the 71st time that month.

And El Tel in 1990 was on the verge of not even taking Gascoigne. 

And there was this guy called Alf Ramsey who would never have played some other dude called Geoff Hurst if not for an injury to one of the best goal scorers of all time in Jimmy Greaves.

You may think it's all over, but it isn't, not now anyway. 

 

 

 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

Gareth played it safe, too safe. At one point when they showed the bench and there was Grealish, Sancho and Rashford sat there, it tells it own story, they would walk into the Scotland team and many others as well. Against a smaller nation it is Rice or Phillips not both.Not sure about taking Kane off either, did not have a good game but he is one of those elite strikers that needs one chance.

All in all, Disappointing, could have been a lot better but you are through, And its all that matter. 

[Gaspode]

10 hours ago, Spanish said:

When did football stop being exciting?

In the case of England, I think it was probably when Terry Venables left….. there’s been the odd exciting game since then, but the vast majority has been as dull as ditch water. The FA have always (back to Brian’s days) wanted the safe option - the 6 out of 10 manager who won’t cause them any trouble or embarrassment. 
We have the most talented crop of young players in a generation and they’re being managed by a man who’s main source of excitement is deciding whether to have Corn Flakes or Rice Krispies for breakfast….

I’m also convinced that the much vaunted FA coaching courses are a disaster - they insist all potential managers have their badges yet it seems to be producing more and more ‘safe’ football. Flair and excitement simply isn’t allowed…..English football is dying in front of our eyes….

 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

3 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Both teams looked average tbh, although Scotland looked slightly less average.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried, but history tells us again and again that tournaments are rarely won by teams starting off fast and blazing through a competition.

It also tells us that England usually do better when they have a one or two iffy performances early on.

As for Southgate not knowing his best team.

Well...

Neither did Robson in 1986 until it was forced upon him by Bryan dislocating his should for the 71st time that month.

And El Tel in 1990 was on the verge of not even taking Gascoigne. 

And there was this guy called Alf Ramsey who would never have played some other dude called Geoff Hurst if not for an injury to one of the best goal scorers of all time in Jimmy Greaves.

You may think it's all over, but it isn't, not now anyway. 

 

 

 

Too right, France won the last WC and had a right stinker in the opening game vs Australia. 

[Gaspode]

5 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

…..And by the way, I hope those who have been vocal why we don't man mark in corners watched Stones opportunity very carefully. Damn good example how man-marking can be wrecked in seconds. Credit where it's due, it was brilliantly worked out set piece.

I saw Stones close his eyes just before the ball arrived - big Jessie….

i remember Clough junior being interviewed and explaining how his dad had pointed out one of his favourite photos of Nigel hanging up at the City Ground - Nigel had questioned why he liked the photo when he’d not actually scored the header and Brian explained it was because the picture showed him flying towards the ball with both eyes open….knew a bit about scoring goals did his dad…

[Ghost of Clough]

I'm not too concerned that we drew to Scotland. As we've seen time and time again over the years, we tend to struggle to break down poo teams as they pack the box with men. 

We do better agaisnt the stronger sides as the games are more open.

I am concerned with the insistence on playing Sterling who brings very little to the side other than wasting fantastic chances, giving the ball away, and slowing play down. He's not the only one doing those things, but he's the only one who is seemingly undropable.

[ariotofmyown]

6 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Too right, France won the last WC and had a right stinker in the opening game vs Australia. 

In Euro 2016, Portugal drew all 3 group games and qualified as the 3rd best 3rd place team, finishing behind Hungary and Iceland in their group. They then beat Switzerland on pens, Poland on pens, then Wales 2-0 in semis, before 1-0 vs France in final aet.

Everyone just remembers they won the Euros, not that they drew 7 out of 9 games, beat one good side and were pretty dull for the whole tournament.

 

[Tamworthram]

26 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

England's problem for years in tournaments is that we play poorly, but do enough, vs weaker opposition. Then lose to the first decent team we come up against, usually with an improved level of performance.

In 2 games so far, we clearly deserved to beat the World Cup finalists, then laboured to a draw vs a well organised, defensive and mad for it Scots side. A draw yesterday was a fair result, plus we had the best chance.

The formation we are playing will be effective vs one of the best teams, especially when there is more space to attack into. The idea that you just throw all these good attacking players together and it suddenly all clicks is a fantasy.

England's arrogance used to be we'd win tournaments simply by believing that players like Gerrard, Rooney, Terry, Lampard were "world class".

The new arrogance is that now we have lots of genuinely good players, all you need is a couple of training sessions together and we'll play wonderful attacking football. We just need to pick x because y is rubbish.

I like Greslish and think maybe he should start, but the hype around him is crazy. The excitement around the ground when he was getting ready to come was a bit embarrassing I thought. If he starts the next game and does nothing, then it will shift to "Sancho has to start".

4 points vs our local rivals and the World Cup finalists is a decent start.

Grealish clearly has a great deal of talent but he frustrates the hell out of me by constantly looking for an opportunity to go down under the slightest of touches. Also, in an interview of the radio on Friday he actually said “Wemberly”. ?

[Gone]

14 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Both teams looked average tbh, although Scotland looked slightly less average.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried, but history tells us again and again that tournaments are rarely won by teams starting off fast and blazing through a competition.

It also tells us that England usually do better when they have a one or two iffy performances early on.

As for Southgate not knowing his best team.

Well...

Neither did Robson in 1986 until it was forced upon him by Bryan dislocating his should for the 71st time that month.

And El Tel in 1990 was on the verge of not even taking Gascoigne. 

And there was this guy called Alf Ramsey who would never have played some other dude called Geoff Hurst if not for an injury to one of the best goal scorers of all time in Jimmy Greaves.

You may think it's all over, but it isn't, not now anyway. 

 

 

 

All those Managers had a decent pedigree. Southgate has managed Boro and got them relegated and him sacked, he did an appalling job as the England U21 manager with a talented bunch.  He got lucky with the path we had in Russia and should of taken us to a WC final but failed. He should never have got the job in the 1st place, and only did because he’s a FA yes man. 

[Day]

The way Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw shows that we should not be playing 2 DM’s.

Not interested in playing it safe, looking for the best route into the knockout stages, if we’re going to win this tournament, we’re going to have to beat the better teams at some point.

So why not use the attacking talent we have, destroy this group and go into the knockout stages full of confidence.

As many of you know, I’ve never been a huge Southgate fan, was forced to hold my hands up and apologise for the scathing post I made….but feels like it’s coming round full circle.

Predicted Lampard will take over after this tournament for a long time, way things are going I’m even more confident this will happen.

[RoyMac5]

27 minutes ago, David said:

The way Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw shows that we should not be playing 2 DM’s.

Not interested in playing it safe, looking for the best route into the knockout stages, if we’re going to win this tournament, we’re going to have to beat the better teams at some point.

So why not use the attacking talent we have, destroy this group and go into the knockout stages full of confidence.

As many of you know, I’ve never been a huge Southgate fan, was forced to hold my hands up and apologise for the scathing post I made….but feels like it’s coming round full circle.

Predicted Lampard will take over after this tournament for a long time, way things are going I’m even more confident this will happen.

Lampard is certainly (mostly) squeaky clean enough for the FA. And he'd easily do a better job than Southgate. You do wonder if the players really buy into the stuff Southgate comes out with. I can't see them being happy with some of his selections and set-ups.

There's so much English talent out there, but we've seen little of it so far. Southgate = Boothroyd, just the other end of the footballing coaching spectrum. IMO.

[Rammy03]

8 hours ago, Alpha said:

Is Rice a good player? I barely know anything about him. What does he do? 

I've only seen him for England and he's done nothing. As far as I can tell he's less stupid than Eric Dier but he looks like he's just happy to get a nice pass % and not mess anything up. 

Surely England can let Phillips do all that work and stick a slightly more responsible player in there? 

Just seems a waste of a shirt. Boring player?

 

Rice has been great for West ham this season. All the England players are better for their clubs. That's the difference. When they join up with the national team, they don't do what they do for their clubs. We play safe, backwards and sideways football.

[Van der MoodHoover]

I'm no great fan of the double midfield pivot, but yesterday one of the pivots went and stood on the toes of the cbs, and the other ran around on the edge of the Scottish box with sterling and mount. 

Result was we had no midfield of any consequence. 

Southgate has boxed himself into a corner imo. The only midfield player he's taken who can properly play a midfield single pivot is Henderson who is a crock. 

A poor strategy to keep the team essentially the same, yet somehow weaken the combinations as I thought Trippier mount and sterling worked better on the left. 

We're left probably wanting to get something versus the Czechs to avoid coming third and they're no mugs. But I expect that one to be the most negative of draws to get both teams through in the top 2 spots. 

I don't think overall Southgate has shown either any tactical adaptability or strategic thinking. Perhaps the best thing is another ignominious failure followed by a reset. He said himself not reaching the semi finals would be failure.