GenBr Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: I don't understand why you're having so much trouble understanding my point? I don't care about how 1 can't contribute and isn't worth anything and the others are .... I completely understand why the club are doing what they're doing. I'm looking at the situation purely out of my own morals and I don't think it is fair that 1 person is suffering more severe consequences than the other 3 involved. That's it, there's nothing more to it. You, SaintRam and others can keep repeating stuff about the financial consequences and why the club is making the right choice which is fine and I agree with, but I just don't believe it to be morally correct, that's all. As for the press stuff, the stadium sale and Rooney signing come to mind. Sure they're both legal and haven't gone against any rules (unless the EFL change their mind), but even the most biased Derby fans can surely see selling a stadium to yourself to avoid FFP punishment and having a betting company heavily involved in a player's arrival isn't a great look. Because your point doesn't make any sense. You don't think it is fair that one person is suffering more severe consequences when the situations of the three players are completely different, as explained numerous times. You haven't provided any explanation as to why you think these players should receive the same punishment - none at all. You can keep saying you think it is morally wrong, but unless you can explain why it is morally wrong it doesn't really mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Am itheonlyonewho pictures this in terms of the Godfather? "urrm yeah but no urrm like you say Don Modesto, urrm I want all my pay because like you say yeah but no" "Listen Richard, I invite you to my house, on this, an unremarkable autumn day, to make you an offer..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, RadioactiveWaste said: Am itheonlyonewho pictures this in terms of the Godfather? "urrm yeah but no urrm like you say Don Modesto, urrm I want all my pay because like you say yeah but no" "Listen Richard, I invite you to my house, on this, an unremarkable autumn day, to make you an offer..." Not sure about The Godfather, but if rumours of that night were to be true we're more into Scarface territory. taffyram and RadioactiveWaste 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Smacks of hypocrisy if (as reported) we're threatening to sack him. Have to agree with a few on here, feels all our decisions on this have been driven by FFP and money, rather than morals. I say that like I don't realise this is a football club, which in the modern game is all about FPP and money, but it still sits uncomfortably with me. All this needs resolving quick. Hard not to believe this whole stink of an episode has contributed to recent performances. Imagine the attitude around the club right now. Lesser teams have gone up on squad harmony alone, don't underestimate it. Steve How Hard?, europia, Cam the Ram and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, GenBr said: Because your point doesn't make any sense. You don't think it is fair that one person is suffering more severe consequences when the situations of the three players are completely different, as explained numerous times. You haven't provided any explanation as to why you think these players should receive the same punishment - none at all. You can keep saying you think it is morally wrong, but unless you can explain why it is morally wrong it doesn't really mean anything. What more do I need to explain? In an ideal world, the club's finances wouldn't be a key factor in the decision making and I think they should all suffer the same punishment from the club (or Bennett and Lawrence more). I've explained why it is morally wrong multiple times. 4 people were involved, 2 of them the main culprits, but the level of punishment differs on 3 levels (6 week wages fine + community service for 2, a pay cut for 1 and seemingly no punishment for the 4th member). Now, unless I've misunderstood what morally means, I think that's more than enough explanation needed from me. I'll say once more, I understand why the club has made the decision it has and know that their situations are different, but for me, morally, it's just wrong to altar the level of punishment for people who were all involved in the same mistake because of the outcome of it. I think we should leave our conversation there for now @GenBR. I've posted 6 or 7 times in here and you've said I've not explained anything, what I'm saying is absolutely baffling or just used the laughing emoji on my posts. If that's as far as we've got then it's probably best if we leave it there and agree to disagree. Hope you enjoy the rest of your evening mate ? Anon and DanS1992 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I think folk are over-thinking this - if either of the two drivers hads been sent to prison and therefore been unable to play for us, they would probably also be on the 'possibly sacked' list - as it is, while they were moronic, they've been punished by the club and the courts and are now avaialble to do their jobs. Keogh on the other hand is unable to play and is therefore unable (through his own actions) able to meet the requirements of his contract - that is a different situation and if (as is likely), the club can't claim on their insurance as it wasn't technically a 'work related injury', they need to protect themselves by recouping some of the money they would otherwise be paying to someone who will spend the next year or so sitting on his behind rather than doing what he's being paid for.... Bubbles, Chester40 and ANGERMAN1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Cam the Ram said: So the 2 main culprits have been given a fine and are already back in the team and playing like nothing happened, but the passenger who's already suffered the most is now being threatened with being sacked? Sure he's the captain and should know better, but if you're exploring the possibility of sacking him then you should have probably done that with the other 2 as well. you may as well anyway nobody would notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: I thought that was a joke Forest fans made up. just quoting facts if you decide not to take notice thats up to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, TommyPowel said: just quoting facts if you decide not to take notice thats up to you What makes it a fact? Ghost of Clough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 He deserves sacking. Not because of the incident but because he is poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, ThePrisoner said: What makes it a fact? fact A) His present contract runs out next year? B) Being club captain must give him a degree of authority,some sort of setting an example C) Tried to give false name as reported in newspapers But disregarding that I am entitled to voice my opinion as everyone is thats why its called a forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, TommyPowel said: C) Tried to give false name as reported in newspapers This is not fact. Bubbles, Rev and Ghost of Clough 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: What more do I need to explain? In an ideal world, the club's finances wouldn't be a key factor in the decision making and I think they should all suffer the same punishment from the club (or Bennett and Lawrence more). I've explained why it is morally wrong multiple times. 4 people were involved, 2 of them the main culprits, but the level of punishment differs on 3 levels (6 week wages fine + community service for 2, a pay cut for 1 and seemingly no punishment for the 4th member). I think you're looking at it the wrong way - I don't think this is a 'punishment' - Keogh (as far as I'm aware) isn't receiving any disciplinary measures from the club - No fines, no extra community work, no public apology, nothing However - When a player gets injured the standard practice is insurance covers their wages so the club doesn't have to pay for someone who can't work - They've obviously been waiting for the insurance company to decide whether this is covered and I suspect have found out that it isn't In that scenario they've gone to Keogh and explained that because the club is now on the hook for £2m in wages for him doing nothing maybe he could consider taking "only" £1m of that over the next 18 months to help them with the fact the insurance hasn't covered it because of an injury which was primarily his own stupid fault I think looking at it as a punishment isn't correct And just to add - A MILLION POUNDS?!?!?! He's still going to get paid £1m for sitting on his arse for 18 months Edited October 30, 2019 by cheron85 £1m!!!!! Chester40, ANGERMAN1, Foxy Ram and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, TommyPowel said: C) Tried to give false name as reported in newspapers Hang on, this isn't a fact is it, surely? Ghost of Clough and ThePrisoner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, GadFly said: Let's say he doesn't accept the offer... Are we going to sack Keogh for "gross misconduct" on the basis that he was a passenger in Lawrence's car whilst Lawrence was drunk... but not sack Lawrence himself for gross misconduct? Surely that's wildly hypocritical? But is he being sacked? If he is offered a new contract that is based on mutual agreement,he can accept or decline as any player can. that seemed to be the bones of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: He deserves sacking. Not because of the incident but because he is poo. Ruud Aralliss, Alph and mwram1973 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: He deserves sacking. Not because of the incident but because he is poo. He has his faults as player granted but bloody hell would swap him out for either of the two present incumbents . cosmic, Steve How Hard? and europia 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, StapenhillRam said: Would it be possible for Keogh to sue Tom Lawrence for loss of earnings ?????? He could but no one forced him to get into the car and transport was laid on but earlier ..Keogh must wake up everyday and wonder what if!! I’d be amazed if we ever saw him in a rams shirt again ....shame as he deserved to go out with more dignity and praise....only himself to blame though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I think you're looking at it the wrong way - I don't think this is a 'punishment' - Keogh (as far as I'm aware) isn't receiving any disciplinary measures from the club - No fines, no extra community work, no public apology, nothing However - When a player gets injured the standard practice is insurance covers their wages so the club doesn't have to pay for someone who can't work - They've obviously been waiting for the insurance company to decide whether this is covered and I suspect have found out that it isn't In that scenario they've gone to Keogh and explained that because the club is now on the hook for £2m in wages for him doing nothing maybe he could consider taking "only" £1m of that over the next 18 months to help them with the fact the insurance hasn't covered it because of an injury which was primarily his own stupid fault I think looking at it as a punishment isn't correct And just to add - A MILLION POUNDS?!?!?! He's still going to get paid £1m for sitting on his arse for 18 months Keogh is costing the club money through the insurance they won't receive and so they're trying to get him to reduce his wages for the duration of his contract. Haven't Bennett and Lawrence cost the club money through other ways as well though? Their market value will surely have dropped as I'm sure if there ever comes a time we're trying to sell them, this incident will probably be used as a means to lower their cost. And we don't know, but this incident may have put off potential investors and sponsors. It's obviously just me speculating, but I'd imagine those types of losses would outweigh the loss on Keogh's wages. All 3 are likely to be costing the club money, but 2 of them can still (just about) kick a ball about so probably won't receive the same sort of offer Keogh has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadFly Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Sparkle said: He would be dismissed for a frustration of contract - off sick and unlikely to be available in the near future So not gross misconduct then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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