Match Thread: Leyton Orient (h)

[Comrade 86]

Pride Park Stadium – KO: 15.00

After a chastening visit to Wycombe Wanderers, next up, the Rams play host to Leyton Orient. I know the whole, ‘must win game’ is horribly overused cliche in sport, but sadly, it actually applies on this occasion, as it will do for all of our remaining games. On the basis of ability and potential, you’d fancy our chances strongly, but as has been the case through a good deal of the season, the team remains somewhat Jekyll and Hyde and it’s anyone’s guess which Derby will turn up on Saturday. Having been concerned about the Wycombe game being a potential banana skin, I’m less so for this match, but it’d taker a braver man than I to be dogmatic about the outcome.

Leyton Orient:
Founded in 1881 as the Glyn Cricket Club, they began playing football as Orient in 1888 and joined the London League in 1896 after success in the Clapton & District League. The club adopted the name Clapton Orient two years later and were elected into the Football League in 1905. Most recently and under current manager Richie Wellens, the club was crowned champions of League Two in the 2022–23 campaign and sit mid-table in this current season.

Form Guide:
In the corresponding away fixture, we rode our luck a little early on, but having scored 1st, the game turned on a somewhat controversial sending off, with Brandon Cooper dismissed for a foul on Max Bird. Derby ultimately ran out comfortable 3-0 winners and this with Collo spurning a brace of golden opportunities, but even then, I felt the scoreline flattered us a little - Please see the match highlights link below. FWIW, my view is that Orient are a tidy enough side for the grade and should not be taken lightly. Much like Wycombe, they will be able to relax a little more than our lads and we need to be controlled and alert throughout the 90 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zPSKzMlFGE&ab_channel=DerbyCountyFootballClub

 

Most recently, Orient’s form has been decent enough, with a 1-0 victory away to Stevenage followed by two losses by the odd goal only to Lincoln and Peterborough. Their last two matches, both at home, yielded a 3-1 victory against Cheltenham, followed by a 2-2 draw against Exeter.

The most obvious dangerman would seem to be the ever-present Ruel Sotiriou with 11 goals and 5 assists across 42 games played. Shaquai Forde is next best with 9 goals and 5 assists, with Oliver O'Neil chipping in with 5 goals and 4 assists. Their preferred formation is seemingly a 4-2-3-1, but perhaps someone who has actually watched them regularly can confirm, as my research yielded conflicting data.

Head 2 Head:
Historically, Derby have the edge and perhaps more significantly, we have not lost at home to Leyton since 1981, with 5 home losses in total since the clubs first met way back in 1907 in what was then the 2nd division.

Games won: 23
Games drawn: 8
Games lost: 18

Team News:
Warne again has some worries to address. Our own @Caerphilly Ram has battled manfully to keep us all informed against an ever-changing background and his latest summary suggests the something akin to the following scenario for Saturday:

Joe Ward – was said to be out for 2 weeks at time of injury – 50:50 for this match is perhaps mildly optimistic
Max Bird – was mooted as a possible for the Wycombe game – may well figure from the bench
Dwight Gayle – not expected to play this weekend, but may be available for the last 2 games
Craig Forsyth - not expected to play this weekend, but may be available before season end
Callum Elder – groin injury, status unknown
Ryan Nyambe – out for the season
Tyreece John-Jules – most likely out for the season
Jake Rooney -  most likely out for the season, but has been ‘back on the grass’ we’re told. No jokes please!

I do have some sympathy for Warne as it seems every time he has the lads playing well, injuries to key players undermine any momentum, but that said, we’re not alone in that regard and we’ll need to make do as best we can.

Line-Up:
I think PW will start with a very similar line up to the last game. I’m going to suggest a slightly controversial tweak (assuming Ward is s recovered) and a change from the MF 2 we seem to favour, to variant of an undeniably old fashioned 4-4-2 – yeah, I know, straws...clutching...much… If Ward is indeed fit, he comes in for Nate, who looks like a man in need of freshening up – perhaps he and Max might be best deployed as ‘finishers’ off the bench when legs tire and the game is more stretched, assuming we’re not winning comfortably. Likewise Barks, who could also play on the right if Ward remains out. That said, if Max is healthy enough to start, I'd be sorely tempted to switch to a 4-3-3 with he and Corey either side of Ebou and Washington dropping to the bench. Irrespective, we must control the game better than we did in the 2nd half at Wycombe, where we repeatedly left a yawning chasm in front of our back 4, for their midfielders to play into.

The front two and CM remain unchanged for me; despite both Wash and Collo looking understandably short of match sharpness, IMO, they remain our best current options. Once again, the back 4 pick themselves, as do Corey and Ebou in at CM. Joe keeps his slot, having done well enough since his return to the fold.

The Match:
Honestly, I’ve no idea which Derby will turn up. After Wycombe, some will want wholesale changes, but my take on what was an admittedly hugely disappointing result, is that Wycombe should have been dead and buried inside 40 minutes. I’m not sure that the subsequent slaughtering of Warne for what was to my eye, the profligacy of his forward line, is entirely fair, but each to their own. He remains the incumbent, for better or worse and whatever might happen next year, it seems a long way off right now. As such, the focus for yours truly remains the next 3 games and nothing else.

A last word, as I’ve avoided reading all bar the last couple of pages of the last thread, would be that despite the stuttering effort against Wycombe, the travelling Rams faithful were magnificent in their support for the team. It’d be grand if we could mirror that at home and all try to channel our inner B4 and help carry the lads over the line. At least remember that Warne and his players are trying their best and are just people, like all of us and hurtful appraisals will only serve to undermine their confidence further.

Enjoy the game one and all.

COYR
BE MORE B4

  

[RadioactiveWaste]

Are Leyton Orient fans orientalists by definition?

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Are Leyton Orient fans orientalists by definition?

Funnily enough...

The 12 history books written on the club by its historian Neilson N. Kaufman between 1974 and 2015 suggest that the choice of the name Orient came about at the behest of a player, Jack R Dearing, who was an employee of the Orient Steam Navigation Company, later part of P&O – Peninsular & Oriental.

[DCFC1388]

Must win game, Warne says he may need to freshen it up as we looked tired vs Wycombe so I expect a couple of changes including going back to a back 3, so in a 3412 - 

Wildsmith - Nelson Bradley Cashin - Wilson Adams Hourihane Sibley - NML - Collins Waghorn

Vickers Ward Thompson Smith Barkhuizen CBT Washington

Could be either Ward or Bird on the bench.

That line up can easily switch between 3412, 3421 & 343.

[Comrade 86]

51 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Must win game, Warne says he may need to freshen it up as we looked tired vs Wycombe so I expect a couple of changes including going back to a back 3, so in a 3412 - 

Wildsmith - Nelson Bradley Cashin - Wilson Adams Hourihane Sibley - NML - Collins Waghorn

Vickers Ward Thompson Smith Barkhuizen CBT Washington

Could be either Ward or Bird on the bench.

That line up can easily switch between 3412, 3421 & 343.

Not sure the addition of Bradley and Hourihane will 'freshen it up', or much else to be honest. Dropping Smith for the latter in particular, seems akin to an act of self-harm. We've looked ok defensively, having reverted to a back 4 and I'd fear a complete meltdown amongst the fans if we bring in the two slowest players on the roster for a game we absolutely need to be winning.

[Rich3478]

58 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Must win game, Warne says he may need to freshen it up as we looked tired vs Wycombe so I expect a couple of changes including going back to a back 3, so in a 3412 - 

Wildsmith - Nelson Bradley Cashin - Wilson Adams Hourihane Sibley - NML - Collins Waghorn

Vickers Ward Thompson Smith Barkhuizen CBT Washington

Could be either Ward or Bird on the bench.

That line up can easily switch between 3412, 3421 & 343.

Wouldn’t be against the back three if it didn’t have to include Bradley! Fozzy fit would be a no brainer.

i’d like to see waghorn and Collins, nml and barkhuizen wide. A 442 I guess

[Rich3478]

3 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Not sure the addition of Bradley and Hourihane will 'freshen it up', or much else to be honest. Dropping Smith for the latter in particular, seems akin to an act of self-harm. We've looked ok defensively, having reverted to a back 4 and I'd fear a complete meltdown amongst the fans if we bring in the two slowest players on the roster for a game we absolutely need to be winning.

Yeah I agree, bringing those two in and a back three would be a brave gamble from Warne. And fans not be forgiving if it goes wrong.

[Chopper]

Taking a friends lad to his first game for this one, just hoping for a good performance and a few opportunities to bounce to help get another Ram on the board (it's either us, or Liverpool, or whomsoever Messi is playing for ..  shrugs)

A win is going to be crucial, I feel the titles gone, and as such Portsmouth could do us a favour too, but if we lose and I'll start thinking playoffs. So the pressure is on, Warne will need to earn his money for this game, to not only drill the team to get past a resolute defence but to prevent us from being our own worst enemy, psychologically speaking.

Maybe not my selection but I'm predicting: 3 at the back, 3 in centre midfield including Hourihane, CBT on the bench, Nate and Collins up top. We will get a few shots off early as Warne will not have liked the stats v Wycombe. Solid line up designed to dominate possession and through sheer wait of odds and shots eventually score.

Leyton Orient? I know very little about them. I dont doubt they will be exotic, exciting, and I'll be very interested to see them, but ultimately given where they are from, not quite as capable as those from around our parts.*

*That was a really bad demonstration of an Orientalist, forgive me , I'm hardly Edward Said.

 

[thischarmingram]

To try and freshen it up I’d bring Thompson and barks in for NML and Washington and ideally I’d have probably looked to take sibley and Wilson out too but don’t think we have the option right now with ward, Forsyth and elder all out. 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Personally wouldn't have Hourihane or Waghorn in the line up if I could help it. Hourihane runs like he's pulled both his hamstrings and offers absolutely nothing. Waghorn is just poor.

Surprising people wanting CBT on the bench cos he's had one bad game. Id start him.

Also find it bizarre anyone could possibly want NML up front. 

Id go with a 433. Hopefully Bird is fit. If he is I'd go:-

                 Wildsmith

Wilson, Nelson, Cashin, Sibley,

                    Adams,

              Bird, Thompson.             

Mendez-Laing, Collins, CBT

Smith for Bird if Bird isn't fit. We need energy in midfield.

[Paultheram]

Wildsmith

 

sibley

cashin

nelson

wilson

 

adams

smith

 

cbt

barks

nml

 

collins

 

vickers

bradley

houriaine

Ward

waghorn

washington

bird 

[IslandExile]

Sonny Bradley is available. 

[DB83]

It wasn’t a “chastening visit” to Wycombe, it was an improvement on last season when we lost, and a point closer to promotion.

Anyway, I came across the below on X today, said by a former Derby County legend who happened to be Bolton Wanderers manager at the time he said it. I completely subscribe to this philosophy, and I hope we can all embrace it for at least the last three games of this season. Too many of us seem to favour a “love the club, hate/slate the players and manger” kind of approach. That isn’t what we need. Let’s all be supporters as well as fans.

Edited April 12 by DB83

[Chester40]

4 hours ago, DB83 said:

It wasn’t a “chastening visit” to Wycombe, it was an improvement on last season when we lost, and a point closer to promotion.

Anyway, I came across the below on X today, said by a former Derby County legend who happened to be Bolton Wanderers manager at the time he said it. I completely subscribe to this philosophy, and I hope we can all embrace it for at least the last three games of this season. Too many of us seem to favour a “love the club, hate/slate the players and manger” kind of approach. That isn’t what we need. Let’s all be supporters as well as fans.

Did you watch the game? I don't recall last season's match but if Tue was an improvement then I've probably had therapy to help me forget it!

I can't remember so many 'WTF was that' moments in any game. Just constantly covering my face with my hands and/or swearing at the TV. Basic errors, unbelievably loose passing, elementary mistakes like being off-side or giving stupid fouls away or not attacking the ball and giving them soft goal kicks. Throw in horrific shooting,  an absolute lack of intensity,  determination to keep lumping it down the wings to no effect and running the ball into touch unnecessarily.  I just struggled to see how we were a professional team at times...it was more like a charity event. I honestly don't think we would have played any worse if I'd dragged myself up and down the wing instead of CBT. On paper we looked an attacking side,  but Washington, Collins and NML all looked woefully unengaged with the rest of the team.

It was every bit as bad as the Northampton game,  except Wycombe looked even more there for the taking until we gave them confidence.

I honestly can't remember how many times frustration at how brain dead our play was gave way to bitter, hollow laughter.

I'm just about now contemplating having to watch us again and invest hope in Bolton slipping up again but omg when we are bad we are soooooo bad.

Wildsmith

Wilson Nelson Cashin Sibley

Adams Smith 

Bird 

Barks  Collins NML 

 

[Anag Ram]

26 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Did you watch the game? I don't recall last season's match but if Tue was an improvement then I've probably had therapy to help me forget it!

I can't remember so many 'WTF was that' moments in any game. Just constantly covering my face with my hands and/or swearing at the TV. Basic errors, unbelievably loose passing, elementary mistakes like being off-side or giving stupid fouls away or not attacking the ball and giving them soft goal kicks. Throw in horrific shooting,  an absolute lack of intensity,  determination to keep lumping it down the wings to no effect and running the ball into touch unnecessarily.  I just struggled to see how we were a professional team at times...it was more like a charity event. I honestly don't think we would have played any worse if I'd dragged myself up and down the wing instead of CBT. On paper we looked an attacking side,  but Washington, Collins and NML all looked woefully unengaged with the rest of the team.

It was every bit as bad as the Northampton game,  except Wycombe looked even more there for the taking until we gave them confidence.

I honestly can't remember how many times frustration at how brain dead our play was gave way to bitter, hollow laughter.

I'm just about now contemplating having to watch us again and invest hope in Bolton slipping up again but omg when we are bad we are soooooo bad.

Wildsmith

Wilson Nelson Cashin Sibley

Adams Smith 

Bird 

Barks  Collins NML 

 

If they were fit, I think I’d agree with your team but I don’t think Bird and Barks are fit to start.

 I’m a bit surprised Fornah hasn’t been given a go. He’s not great but he is physical and can run. 

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

What I expect Warne to field:

Wildsmith
Nelson   Bradley   Cashin
Wilson   Adams   Hourihane   Sibley
Mendez-Laing   Blackett-Taylor
Collins

Subs: Vickers, DRobinson, Smith, Thompson, Barkhuizen, Washington, Waghorn

[IlsonDerby]

               Wildsmith 

Wilson Nelson cash Sibley 

                    Ebou 

         Smith Thompson 

       NML* Collins** CBT 

* replace with Barkhuizen as soon as we can get Barkhuizen on (assuming around 65 minutes into the match)

** Let him run himself into the ground and then replace with Waggy or Wash. hopefully get 60 minutes out of him. 
 

Tell CBT that you are putting all your faith in him and. that he is starting every game until the end of the season and that he’s the main man for making things happen.
Put your faith in him because he’s the only wide player not injured.

[Rich84]

Hopefully everyone has got their meltdowns out the way now and at 5 o'clock tomorrow all will be rosey again.

We tend to perform well after a disappointing performance this season, so I think we'll have the 3 points in a more comfortable win than people expect.

Meanwhile,  Bolton and Portsmouth draw to put us back in the driving seat as Peterborough have a tough game everyone seems to be ignoring as I expect Oxford to beat them.

 

Failing that, bet big on the National and ignore the footie!

[simmoram1995]

Surely dropping CBT would be the most pathetic thing possible and crush the guys confidence. I’d start him. But I don’t want to see that lanky cart horse at the back or Washington anywhere near the team.

I’d go with 4-3-3

wildsmith

same back 4

adams 

hourihane Smith 

Ward if fit Collins and CBT

id rest NML he looks burnt out.

[DiggerB]

20 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

Hopefully everyone has got their meltdowns out the way now