Derby County Financial Accounts

[RoyMac5]

This bit cheered me up:

"Principal risks and uncertainties

Due to the principal activities of the company, the revenues of the business are susceptible to the on-pitch performance of the football team.

This is mitigated by maintaining top class training facilities, in order to attract the best talent, having competitive wage budgets and operating a category one academy to ensure there is an appropriate player pathway to the first team and to build value for the future.

The company's credit risk is relatively low and is primarily attributable to its trade debtors. Credit risk is managed by running credit checks on new customers and by monitoring payments against contractual agreements.

The company is financed by cash injections and the revenue that is raised through its business activities. The objective is to ensure a mix of funding methods offering flexibility and cost effectiveness to match the needs of the Company; however the Directors note that such dependency on parent company support is critical to remaining a going concern."

Hopefully meaning funds would be available if we went up?

[Comrade 86]

£55 million against a net worth of @£350 million. And he's still had some absolutes arses on here screeching about his motivation and commitment this season.

Honestly, who'd be an owner?

Also, bit of a tangent but why do we as a group insist on giving the cretinous teacher from Nottingham, whose name I won't mention the attention he so dearly craves? His name needs swear-filtering on here. 

[vonwright]

40 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This bit cheered me up:

"Principal risks and uncertainties

Due to the principal activities of the company, the revenues of the business are susceptible to the on-pitch performance of the football team.

This is mitigated by maintaining top class training facilities, in order to attract the best talent, having competitive wage budgets and operating a category one academy to ensure there is an appropriate player pathway to the first team and to build value for the future.

The company's credit risk is relatively low and is primarily attributable to its trade debtors. Credit risk is managed by running credit checks on new customers and by monitoring payments against contractual agreements.

The company is financed by cash injections and the revenue that is raised through its business activities. The objective is to ensure a mix of funding methods offering flexibility and cost effectiveness to match the needs of the Company; however the Directors note that such dependency on parent company support is critical to remaining a going concern."

Hopefully meaning funds would be available if we went up?

I guess although 'to remains a going concern' is a bit of a worry. Suppose that's just how football is these days. 

[Ram-Alf]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I think my estimates for the year weren't too far out on the important details considering I didn't have much to go on - only 5 year old accounts and predicted changes due to relegation.
£500k overstatement on our losses when ignoring the 1 off impairment charge. An overestimate on the turnover by £1.3m (mainly due to commerical/hospitality) and £1.3m underestimate on the wages (half of which down to SP's pay).

Comparison of 22/23 estimate/actual and revised 23/24 estimate:

 

I see under depreciation that the coat below could be taken into account 👍

 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

42 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

I see under depreciation that the coat below could be taken into account 👍

 

 

You mean the £45 hoodie we gifted him from the club shop?

[Chopper]

3 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

We should approach Niall Horan and Keiran Lee for some joint sponsorship a sort of double entry.

No thanks, the last 'double entry' I saw Kieran Lee involved in looked eye watering.

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Crewton said:

Well here's an example of what I'm referring to:

"Derby paying rent of £872k a year for Pride Park. Low yield compare to the £80m stadium sold for to an MM company a few years ago."

Do you know anyone else who works out the yield on an investment based on an obsolete valuation rather than what they paid for the asset? 

To me, it just looks like he's taking an opportunity to mention a contentious valuation that he disagreed with.

Spot on. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Am I being dumb (again)? 
 

Why would there be a tax (corporation tax) bill if we made a loss? 

 

7 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Am I being dumb (again)? 
 

Why would there be a tax (corporation tax) bill if we made a loss? 

There is no corporation tax bill.

[Ghost of Clough]

10 hours ago, Papahet said:

Why did we get so little for the 3 players at tribunal? Awful if that's the case and no wonder we cashed in on Max Bird before his deal expired.

FIFA compensation rules from Festy. Something like £180k plus 1.25% of all future transfer fees.

We came to an an agreement with Werder Bremen, but I expect closer to the upper end of what we would have been entitled to under FIFA rules. Roughly £325k (plus a further £65k in summer 2023).

Then there's an unknown amount for Ebiowei. As he was only with us for 1 full season, it wouldn't be much by domestic standards.

The rest will be a loan fee for Bielik (a wage contribution).

[TuffLuff]

To be honest the big two takeaways for me, from admittedly a very quick read through and a complete lack of understanding of accounting is

1) much like under Mel, for the club to really balance it the books, the. We need an academy that is developing assets that have a maximum sale value and be willing to move players on when the time is right. Our current loss could easily be offset by 2-3 academy products being sold who really reach their potential.

2) I do wonder that this £36 million interest fee debt the club owe Clowes is a bit of a signal to say ‘if someone wants to buy the club, this is what I want’ or atleast an investor would need to be looking to clear a decent chunk of that debt. Just a thought because I do think you have to try and clear those debts, because you either do a Mel and add more and more debt as an easy option or it ends up coming out of promotion packages when those recourses could be used elsewhere.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

This bit cheered me up:

"Principal risks and uncertainties

Due to the principal activities of the company, the revenues of the business are susceptible to the on-pitch performance of the football team.

This is mitigated by maintaining top class training facilities, in order to attract the best talent, having competitive wage budgets and operating a category one academy to ensure there is an appropriate player pathway to the first team and to build value for the future.

The company's credit risk is relatively low and is primarily attributable to its trade debtors. Credit risk is managed by running credit checks on new customers and by monitoring payments against contractual agreements.

The company is financed by cash injections and the revenue that is raised through its business activities. The objective is to ensure a mix of funding methods offering flexibility and cost effectiveness to match the needs of the Company; however the Directors note that such dependency on parent company support is critical to remaining a going concern."

Hopefully meaning funds would be available if we went up?

Pretty standard wording for a company that is technically insolvency and you would find the same pledges in the accounts that MM signed off on (not that I am comparing DC to MM)

 

[Tamworthram]

46 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

There is no corporation tax bill.

That was my understanding but I didn’t know if I was missing something.

[jimtastic56]

5 hours ago, Oldben said:

How many league one clubs are profitable.

To recover clowes money he first needs to get the Club promoted to championship and then some how to the Premier league.

If we are paying David Clowes rent of 872 k per annum on PP. Which he bought for £25 mill - that’s similar to DC getting 4-5% p an  interest on his investment . That seems fairly normal in the current financial climate.

[europia]

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

 

for the club to really balance it the books, the. We need an academy that is developing assets that have a maximum sale value and be willing to move players on when the time is right. Our current loss could easily be offset by 2-3 academy products being sold who really reach their potential.

 

Yes, actually, that's the only path to sustainability. Otherwise it's a boom / bust cycle. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said:

If we are paying David Clowes rent of 872 k per annum on PP. Which he bought for £25 mill - that’s similar to DC getting 4-5% p an  interest on his investment . That seems fairly normal in the current financial climate.

Yeah but our football finance expert friend thinks it's more appropriate to calculate the yield on what someone else paid for it 6 years ago...

[ilkleyram]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Pretty standard wording for a company that is technically insolvency and you would find the same pledges in the accounts that MM signed off on (not that I am comparing DC to MM)

 

But we should do - compare DC and MM that is - because they are both in exactly the same position financially, albeit that the actual amounts are different.

When push comes to shove our outgoings exceed our incomings. We therefore need DC to find ways of filling in the monetary gap, for all his talk of sustainability. Exactly the same with MM. The difference, at the moment, is that DC is (unlike MM latterly) showing every sign of trying to control our outgoings and is prepared to fill the financial gap. It was MM refusing to continue to fill the financial gap that led to administration.  There’s nothing, other than our current confidence in a new owner, that says that that situation cannot repeat itself.

That same concern applies, or should do, to the vast majority of football clubs in this country, Premier league or Efl,  which is one of the reasons that the epl and efl are belatedly challenging the financial performances of a number of clubs.

DC saved my, our, football club. He’s clearly a fan; he’s clearly brought about a degree of financial control that was lacking; he’s clearly prepared to, for the time being at least, fill in the financial gaps.  But for all we might not want to believe it now, that could change.  It’s a situation that absolutely demands a large degree of patience from us when we cannot afford a young, dynamic striker/defender/midfielder that’s effectively a short term financial gamble however much we fans might want him.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

To be honest the big two takeaways for me, from admittedly a very quick read through and a complete lack of understanding of accounting is

1) much like under Mel, for the club to really balance it the books, the. We need an academy that is developing assets that have a maximum sale value and be willing to move players on when the time is right. Our current loss could easily be offset by 2-3 academy products being sold who really reach their potential.

2) I do wonder that this £36 million interest fee debt the club owe Clowes is a bit of a signal to say ‘if someone wants to buy the club, this is what I want’ or atleast an investor would need to be looking to clear a decent chunk of that debt. Just a thought because I do think you have to try and clear those debts, because you either do a Mel and add more and more debt as an easy option or it ends up coming out of promotion packages when those recourses could be used elsewhere.

The best ones will reach their potential having been nicked for a million a piece at 16, whilst the academy being run to find and train them runs at about 5 million a year.  That's an issue not solvable till we are pushing for a premier league place and can dangle that carrot.  Cat 1 is no good for League 1.

[davenportram]

21 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Maguire misrepresenting wages. Gives wage bill as £17m and 84% of turnover, but fails to say that’s all employees and players wages are only £7m and 35% of turnover (much lower than the allowable percentage for players wages)

 

guarantee gump fans will be bleating about our high wage bill breaking the rules

[Ghost of Clough]

14 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Maguire misrepresenting wages. Gives wage bill as £17m and 84% of turnover, but fails to say that’s all employees and players wages are only £7m and 35% of turnover (much lower than the allowable percentage for players wages)

 

guarantee gump fans will be bleating about our high wage bill breaking the rules

I missed that bit. Where does it say that?

[davenportram]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I missed that bit. Where does it say that?

In one of the original posts on this thread