Derby County Financial Accounts

[davenportram]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I missed that bit. Where does it say that?

 

[CBRammette]

18 hours ago, Justa said:

For me this is a timely little reminder of what Clowes has done and how lucky we are to have a club.

Quite sobering really….

Its not just the money - can you imagine just how much he's had to sort out also

[8Leeds]

I have and will always want the best for my club, it’s the county I love and it will always have my loyalty but now I want it for the Clowes family, to repay their efforts and sacrifices. 

What he did to save our club and what he’s continuing to do, I will always be immensely grateful for. 

It’ll be a long road back for us but we’re in the safest of hands.

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, 8Leeds said:

I have and will always want the best for my club, it’s the county I love and it will always have my loyalty but now I want it for the Clowes family, to repay their efforts and sacrifices. 

What he did to save our club and what he’s continuing to do, I will always be immensely grateful for. 

It’ll be a long road back for us but we’re in the safest of hands.

We're back, unless we've taken the wrong road! #COYR

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, davenportram said:

 

I still don't see where that figure originates from.

This article by Leigh Curtis from yesterday morning says "understood to be £7.3m", which again doesn't provide any evidence for the figure.

[8Leeds]

29 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We're back, unless we've taken the wrong road! #COYR

I suppose what I mean by a long road back is being back in the mix of teams chasing promotion to the premier league. 

[Carnero]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I still don't see where that figure originates from.

This article by Leigh Curtis from yesterday morning says "understood to be £7.3m", which again doesn't provide any evidence for the figure.

Does the Salary Cap Management Protocol % of 42.0% suggest a player wage bill of approx £8.6m?

Edited March 9 by Carnero
Added screenshot

[davenportram]

26 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I still don't see where that figure originates from.

This article by Leigh Curtis from yesterday morning says "understood to be £7.3m", which again doesn't provide any evidence for the figure.

Dominic Dietrich’s tweets states 7.3m after he’d read the report. Either way it’s significantly less than the £17m Maguire is using as it’s spurious headline grabbing figure, otherwise we’d be in breach of the EFL agreement 

[davenportram]

17 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Does the Salary Cap Management Protocol % of 42.0% suggest a player wage bill of approx £8.6m?

That would be the maximum allowable I’d say, 

[BramcoteRam84]

As others have said, quite sobering, he’s effectively paid more for a league 1 club in disarray than Mel paid for a really well run club on the brink of the premier league - that with better management from Mel should have got to the premier league. To say he’s gone above and beyond is an understatement and any other owner wouldn’t have gone to these lengths, it’s why Mike Ashley wouldn’t buy the club for example. Without Clowes we’d have either gone out of existence or faced further points deductions and potentially further relegation to League 2. We owe him a huge debt of gratitude forever. It’s not his style but Pride Park should be named after him, he at least deserves a stand. He’s probably made the biggest contribution in the history of the club, bigger than any league title wins. 

It’s also eye watering how much money we’re losing, the category 1 academy is clearly a huge drain. However a wage bill of £7.3m for playing staff while competitive in this league is by no means at a level to guarantee promotion considering the lack of money we’ve spent on transfers. For context Ipswich playing budget last year was £16m and they spent c.£7m in transfers, dwarfing the rest of the division - although doing what they’re doing this season in the championship with that sort of budget is incredible. 
 

It’s clear we have to be smart about how we do things if we want to return to the premier league, we don’t have a fat Greek who will bankroll us for £300m from Ill gotten gains. Hopefully the academy will bear fruit but we need to be identifying the right talent in the lower leagues and abroad. Then the quality of the coaching will be the difference between being in a position to compete for the premier league in the next 3 years (Luton, Ipswich) or the next 5-7 years (a return to the Nigel years).

Bit first things first get this squad promoted then rebuild. Either way I think this summer will be a major rebuild. 

[trappatoni]

Be interesting to see the next set of accounts.   Given Keiran Maguire reckoned the average league 1 loss is ~£1m and our income is massive - think he said Portsmouth were at £13m ish ?? - and we are nowhere near the limits on player wages spending as a proportion of income - you'd think we shouldn't be losing money let alone £10m.   

I'm guessing the academy  and exceptional circumstances account for that. 

[duncanjwitham]

32 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

Be interesting to see the next set of accounts.   Given Keiran Maguire reckoned the average league 1 loss is ~£1m and our income is massive - think he said Portsmouth were at £13m ish ?? - and we are nowhere near the limits on player wages spending as a proportion of income - you'd think we shouldn't be losing money let alone £10m.   

I'm guessing the academy  and exceptional circumstances account for that. 

That £10m loss is more than accounted for by the £13m to Quantuma.  If my understanding is right (and I'm not an expert at this stuff), turnover without player trading is about £18.9m.  Operating costs were about £19.2m.  So that's pretty much break even in actual money terms.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Carnero said:

Does the Salary Cap Management Protocol % of 42.0% suggest a player wage bill of approx £8.6m?

Ah, that's the bit I missed. Yes, £8.6m would be more accurate than £7.3m based on 42% of £20.44m. Dom states 36% though.

That £8.6m excludes: social security, pensions, loaned out players (Bielik), U21 and other academy players. With all of these included, I estimated all contracted and academy players to cost approximately £12m.

That would leave all other staff costs at approximately £5.2m, which would be in line with most Championship Cat 1 clubs.

Edited March 9 by Ghost of Clough

[Ghost of Clough]

55 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

Be interesting to see the next set of accounts.   Given Keiran Maguire reckoned the average league 1 loss is ~£1m and our income is massive - think he said Portsmouth were at £13m ish ?? - and we are nowhere near the limits on player wages spending as a proportion of income - you'd think we shouldn't be losing money let alone £10m.   

I'm guessing the academy  and exceptional circumstances account for that. 

Barnsley lost £4m last season and it'll be similar this season

[Andrew3000]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

As others have said, quite sobering, he’s effectively paid more for a league 1 club in disarray than Mel paid for a really well run club on the brink of the premier league - that with better management from Mel should have got to the premier league. To say he’s gone above and beyond is an understatement and any other owner wouldn’t have gone to these lengths, it’s why Mike Ashley wouldn’t buy the club for example. Without Clowes we’d have either gone out of existence or faced further points deductions and potentially further relegation to League 2. We owe him a huge debt of gratitude forever. It’s not his style but Pride Park should be named after him, he at least deserves a stand. He’s probably made the biggest contribution in the history of the club, bigger than any league title wins. 

It’s also eye watering how much money we’re losing, the category 1 academy is clearly a huge drain. However a wage bill of £7.3m for playing staff while competitive in this league is by no means at a level to guarantee promotion considering the lack of money we’ve spent on transfers. For context Ipswich playing budget last year was £16m and they spent c.£7m in transfers, dwarfing the rest of the division - although doing what they’re doing this season in the championship with that sort of budget is incredible. 
 

It’s clear we have to be smart about how we do things if we want to return to the premier league, we don’t have a fat Greek who will bankroll us for £300m from Ill gotten gains. Hopefully the academy will bear fruit but we need to be identifying the right talent in the lower leagues and abroad. Then the quality of the coaching will be the difference between being in a position to compete for the premier league in the next 3 years (Luton, Ipswich) or the next 5-7 years (a return to the Nigel years).

Bit first things first get this squad promoted then rebuild. Either way I think this summer will be a major rebuild. 

Some great points.  Clowes has secured his place as one of the most important people in our history and will eventually be immortalised in some form.

The academy status is a dilemma. They have an obvious emotional appeal, but are they actually worth the investment over the long term? Anyone got any evidence either way? 

 

[MadAmster]

12 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

Some great points.  Clowes has secured his place as one of the most important people in our history and will eventually be immortalised in some form.

The academy status is a dilemma. They have an obvious emotional appeal, but are they actually worth the investment over the long term? Anyone got any evidence either way? 

 

Look at Ajax if you want to see the benefits of a well run Academy. They've been one of the top clubs in Europe for decades despite having a turnover far, far lower than the top English, French, German, Italian and Spanish sides. Less so of late as they started paying large amounts for players instead of their proven method of bringing the kids on, winning titles and then selling the players in their early 20s for massive fees.

Last summer they got a new Technical director in Sven Mislintat, a German. He employed Maurice Steijn as the new Head Coach. Steijn gave him a shopping list of players he wanted. Mislinstat brought in NO players from Steijn's list. Instead, he sold off the better players. Some were on huge wages and due to missing out on the Champions League, they had to go for financial reasons. That meant the buying clubs knew the reason for the sales and their offers were lower than the players' values. He then spent a shedload of money on some less than average players. After half a dozen games, Ajax were bottom for the first time in the club's history. Mislinstat was sacked as was Steijn. Steijn was replaced by John van 't Schip who set about restoring pride and returning to the club's preferred way of working. In came some Academy players. For instance Hato, a central defender who has done so well he's earned his first Dutch caps this season and captained Ajax when the Captain and Vice Captain were both injured. He's just turned 18.

Godts, 18. Gooijer, 19. Marta, 20, Have all made several appearances (both starts and as subs) in first team.

Regulars in the matchday squad are Borges, 19 (ex man city). Hlynsson, 20. Taylor 21. Rensch 21. Kaplan 21. Gaaei 21. Tahirovic 21. Ramaj 22 (goalkeeper). Brobbey 22.  

Having said that, there's no point in having a Cat 1 Academy if young players aren't going to get a look in.

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Ah, that's the bit I missed. Yes, £8.6m would be more accurate than £7.3m based on 42% of £20.44m. Dom states 36% though.

That £8.6m excludes: social security, pensions, loaned out players (Bielik), U21 and other academy players. With all of these included, I estimated all contracted and academy players to cost approximately £12m.

That would leave all other staff costs at approximately £5.2m, which would be in line with most Championship Cat 1 clubs.

I don't know where Dom gets £7.3m and 36% from when the accounts literally say that it was 42%.

[davenportram]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Ah, that's the bit I missed. Yes, £8.6m would be more accurate than £7.3m based on 42% of £20.44m. Dom states 36% though.

That £8.6m excludes: social security, pensions, loaned out players (Bielik), U21 and other academy players. With all of these included, I estimated all contracted and academy players to cost approximately £12m.

That would leave all other staff costs at approximately £5.2m, which would be in line with most Championship Cat 1 clubs.

The cap is the maximum allowable under the plan - doesn’t mean we are spending it.

[davenportram]

1 hour ago, Carnero said:

I don't know where Dom gets £7.3m and 36% from when the accounts literally say that it was 42%.

Doesn’t it call that a salary cap - what’s available to spend not what actually was spent 

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Doesn’t it call that a salary cap - what’s available to spend not what actually was spent 

Under SCMP a normal L1 club can spend up to 60% of turnover on player salaries, a newly relegated club can spend up to 75%. I guess we could spend somewhere in the middle given the post-admin business plan. We spent 42%.