Warne Out Out

[sage]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Maybe, but I doubt the EFL could insist on us keeping our manager. I'm not inferring Clowes is a moron, I think he's a smart guy, I just think there is no way we wouldn't have anything in place in case we needed to fire Warne. Even if we hired Guardiola it would be advisable to have a get out plan. My point is that I doubt it's a financial decision not to fire Warne and more that Clowes still believes in Warne. 

It could be a Clowes financial decision or a dcfc financial decision without being an EFL decision.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Blondest Goat said:

Yes I guess that makes sense but surely continuity on the footballing side was just as important as it was for the finances?  Hindsight is a wonderful thing but replacing Rosenior looks like a poor decision now.  You could see that he was building a team with an identity.  What identity do we have now?  We play a completely different game from one match to the next.

We have multiple identities within a half!

Plans a to e......

Nothing wrong with that per se except they all seem to lead to fugly ineffective football that doesn't get much of a result.....

[Andicis]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

It could be a Clowes financial decision or a dcfc financial decision without being an EFL decision.

 

And maybe that is the case, but if the results got really bad I'm certain we would have the ability to remove Warne, there has to be a contingency for it within our budget.

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Maybe, but I doubt the EFL could insist on us keeping our manager. I'm not inferring Clowes is a moron, I think he's a smart guy, I just think there is no way we wouldn't have anything in place in case we needed to fire Warne. Even if we hired Guardiola it would be advisable to have a get out plan. My point is that I doubt it's a financial decision not to fire Warne and more that Clowes still believes in Warne. 

Yeah, ok. To be honest, I don't believe Clowe's reality is anywhere near as simple as you and a few others would have everyone believe, so I'll exercise my right to remain undecided and see what plays out. You want to call it now, be my guest. 

[rammieib]

When we limp to a mid table finish and we lose 2,000 season tickets and a total of 3,000 from the gate next season will people being saying DC has been a good business owner at that point in time?

Good business people make bad decisions but it’s how quickly they make changes which differentiates them.

We are a sinking ship under Warne. We’re good enough for 7-10th and that’ll cloud judgements. That’s not good enough for the fans and a club our size. Call it entitlement, but I personally call it expectation. We are too big for Warne and he’s losing it.

I am really disappointed in our owner right now.

[CBRammette]

Thought would have quick read on here before bed but perhaps not. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

38 minutes ago, rammieib said:

When we limp to a mid table finish and we lose 2,000 season tickets and a total of 3,000 from the gate next season will people being saying DC has been a good business owner at that point in time?

Good business people make bad decisions but it’s how quickly they make changes which differentiates them.

We are a sinking ship under Warne. We’re good enough for 7-10th and that’ll cloud judgements. That’s not good enough for the fans and a club our size. Call it entitlement, but I personally call it expectation. We are too big for Warne and he’s losing it.

I am really disappointed in our owner right now.

So, just to clarify, the man who saved this 139 year institution at the heart of a city and surrounding areas from extinction with his money, re-hired colleagues who’s livelihoods had been taken away, worked to rebuild the reputation of the club off the pitch by doing things like donating “sponsorship” to a national charity, is looking to run the club as sustainably as possible to secure its long term future, invested in the upkeep of the stadium after years of neglect (after buying that back too), worked collaboratively with the EFL to rebuild relationships long soured, continued to invest in the academy, realigned the football side to include the women’s team, and probably a few more things I can’t recall that others might ….has failed to match your personal opinion and expectations that Warne isn’t the right man for us right now and therefore should be sacked, so you’re disappointed in him? 

[Rammy03]

5 hours ago, Jayram said:

We’ve been poor since February. We’re going nowhere this season or next with Warne in charge. 

Said arsenal fans about arteta. I'm not saying Warne is going to be the second coming of pep but I think he needs more time. We've not been bad enough to sack him yet.

[Rample]

8 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

So there was a meeting…

found this an interesting comment in the article;

The club also has plans to appoint a chairman and executive and non-executive members to the board who have footballing and sporting backgrounds.

What I also found interesting was the comment from Warne to the effect of 'I've been to board meetings, but not the last one as it was on a match day". Yep, they're talking about you not to you mate.

[BramcoteRam84]

5 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I'm not entirely sure the vote of confidence from the club is exactly as it seems.

We all know Warne is on a long contract & that sacking him would be expensive. We also know that he is an emotional character & wants to be liked - the reaction to fans abusing him at Shrewsbury & Stevenage has clearly come as a shock & is unchartered territory for him. From 6 years at Rotherham where his 3 relegations were treated with a shrug of the shoulders, he's now in an environment where he's practically living from game to game. This is also in stark contrast to the 'free hit' pass a lot of fans gave to him last season (something I never agreed with incidentally).

In essence, Warne has two choices from here. The first obvious one is that results pick up dramatically, however unlikely that looks currently but it would need a pretty long unbeaten run from here to silence most of his critics. The second choice is to carry on with inconsistent results but risk players becoming increasingly disengaged with his management & fans increasingly furious. I seriously doubt Warne has the stomach for the latter over a sustained period & hence a mutual termination where he agrees to a much lower pay out is the likeliest scenario. My hunch is that the club realise this & hence it makes sense to let the situation play out in the short term.

It’s the dreaded vote of confidence. Historically it often is the precursor a parting of ways not long after. This is most likely due to the fact it only happens (the vote of confidence) when things aren’t going well and in most cases the rot has set in the situation is irretrievable.

Clowes is steady and won’t be knee jerk, the fact he’s his man he will give him every chance to turn this around. But he needs to do just that, turn things around or we could be here in a month further away from where we want to be and the pressure will only build. If we don’t win the next two home games and get knocked out of the cup Clowes’ resolve will be tested. 

He needs a winning run akin to the one we had last season when he first came in, that will give him breathing space and probably get him through to the end of the season but we still need to finish top 6.

Ive felt a lot of the criticism about Warne has been knee jerk, I think people have seen things interviews to fit their narrative (Even the Warne interview at the weekend has been blown out of proportion in my view - great work from Dom Dietrich by the way), but this season particularly there seems less of a plan, the football is tougher to watch and we are not improving, in fact we are going backwards. It’s going to need some turnaround.
 

The league is poor this season, Pompey looked as average as we did at PP yet they’re walking the league, feels right now that we are spaffing a major opportunity. 

[Marriot Ram99]

5 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

So, just to clarify, the man who saved this 139 year institution at the heart of a city and surrounding areas from extinction with his money, re-hired colleagues who’s livelihoods had been taken away, worked to rebuild the reputation of the club off the pitch by doing things like donating “sponsorship” to a national charity, is looking to run the club as sustainably as possible to secure its long term future, invested in the upkeep of the stadium after years of neglect (after buying that back too), worked collaboratively with the EFL to rebuild relationships long soured, continued to invest in the academy, realigned the football side to include the women’s team, and probably a few more things I can’t recall that others might ….has failed to match your personal opinion and expectations that Warne isn’t the right man for us right now and therefore should be sacked, so you’re disappointed in him? 

What matters is on the pitch for fans most couldn't give 2 f**** about the rest if we are abysmal on the pitch on a Saturday and have a manager that most are growing to hate quite frankly. I am not saying that Clowes is a bad owner but he will be soon be viewed as one irregardless of any community work if things continue how they are on the pitch and he takes too long to act and keeps faith in Warne.

[WilkoRam]

6 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Has it not occurred to you that one of the very restrictions upon which the EFL may have insisted, is that we don't do the manager churn s***, that led to our mad overspend in the first place? Might the removal of Rosenior mere weeks into the season, be our ace played early? I'm gonna duck out now anyway as I think any material facts have long since become irrelevant to this thread.

None of us know said restrictions but this seems like a highly unlikely one.

I think, and again this is just an opinion as none of us know, but Clowes is one of the fans who thinks Warne needs more time, end of.

He’s had a meeting, been shown a few highlight reels and been convinced things will get better. Nothing more to it, not some strange demand from the EFL that we’re not allowed to lay a manager off or a lack of money to do it, just the simple fact he believes (after having a meeting) that time is what is needed right now. 

[Comrade 86]

59 minutes ago, WilkoRam said:

None of us know said restrictions but this seems like a highly unlikely one.

I think, and again this is just an opinion as none of us know, but Clowes is one of the fans who thinks Warne needs more time, end of.

He’s had a meeting, been shown a few highlight reels and been convinced things will get better. Nothing more to it, not some strange demand from the EFL that we’re not allowed to lay a manager off or a lack of money to do it, just the simple fact he believes (after having a meeting) that time is what is needed right now. 

Is it more unlikely than us having an agreement or contingency in place to the tune of £1.5 million plus when we've just exited admin having agreed only 25p in the £ for creditor repayments? Might HMRC be thinking that might be taking the piss? I'm unsure as to why some form of salary cap is considered so unlikely given our past overspend. It's precisely the kind of restriction I'd expect.

That said, it's just an opinion and frankly if Clowes wants to give more time to Warne and that's the sole reason he remains in situ, I'm not sure fans should be trying to bully him into doing otherwise anyway. If they want to vote with their feet, so be it, but I'm not sure pitching assumptions as facts and then using them to demean him is either credible or appropriate. This last bit isn't a reference to you by the way, more an observation on some of the garbage I saw posted last night.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Comrade 86

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, rammieib said:

When we limp to a mid table finish and we lose 2,000 season tickets and a total of 3,000 from the gate next season will people being saying DC has been a good business owner at that point in time?

Good business people make bad decisions but it’s how quickly they make changes which differentiates them.

We are a sinking ship under Warne. We’re good enough for 7-10th and that’ll cloud judgements. That’s not good enough for the fans and a club our size. Call it entitlement, but I personally call it expectation. We are too big for Warne and he’s losing it.

I am really disappointed in our owner right now.

I am really disappointed in some of our 'supporters' right now.

[Caerphilly Ram]

46 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

What matters is on the pitch for fans most couldn't give 2 f**** about the rest if we are abysmal on the pitch on a Saturday and have a manager that most are growing to hate quite frankly. I am not saying that Clowes is a bad owner but he will be soon be viewed as one irregardless of any community work if things continue how they are on the pitch and he takes too long to act and keeps faith in Warne.

I appreciate you clarifying your stance on it, I was just asking the original poster to do the same. 
My own view is that Clowes is far from being a “bad owner” at this point, and I don’t get why people are “disappointed” in him, as though he’s a naughty child. He’s the owner of the football club, who has invested millions into the club and the local community, without him there potentially wouldn’t be a club. The growing “hate” for Warne by SOME fans, as I’ve yet to see a quantitative study proving its most Derby fans as you and others keep stating, might be warranted but this season isn’t beyond saving and if Clowes has chosen to back his man there’s a couple of options available to fans. One is to accept it and make your choice as to whether you want to carry on following/supporting the club in spite of Warne’s presence. Another is to spend your time doing something else for the moment until such inevitable point as Warne moves on either through his choice or the owners. Another is to become more active in protesting Warne’s management, I’ve yet to see any marches against Warne or mass protests at the grounds by this “most” fans, or banners in the stands demanding “Warne out” or that we “play the McClaren way or else”. 

Clowes tenure as owner should not and, for me, will not be defined by one managerial appointment good or bad. It’s about how he acts as overall custodian for the football club and for now he’s getting most of the other stuff more right than wrong, with time and opportunity to correct what’s happening on the pitch provided I remember my patience. 

[G STAR RAM]

56 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

What matters is on the pitch for fans most couldn't give 2 f**** about the rest if we are abysmal on the pitch on a Saturday and have a manager that most are growing to hate quite frankly. I am not saying that Clowes is a bad owner but he will be soon be viewed as one irregardless of any community work if things continue how they are on the pitch and he takes too long to act and keeps faith in Warne.

Please dont try and speak on behalf of the fans.

I'm sure there are many, like me, who do give more than 2 f**** about things other than just what happens on the pitch because we realise without David Clowes we would have no pitch to give 2 f**** about.

As for hating the manager, grow up.

[On the Ram Page]

I am ashamed by some of the comments on here about David Clowes, the man who saved our Club from oblivion. Thank goodness he is a Derby fan, because otherwise reading the comments on here, would make me want to walk away.

Some of you need to take a good hard look at yourselves in the mirror.

Perhaps, some of you might now realise Clowes is not going to sing to your tune and get rid of Warne, so why don’t you just keep quiet for a few months, (whilst sharpening your knives in the background for you next attack) and let the rest of us have a bit of piece and quiet whilst we support and try and get our season on track!
 

Yes I know it’s sanctimonious, but it’s what I feel.

[Miggins]

15 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

Now DC has given us his verdict (or somebody high up at least) we have no choice but to get behind the team. How is PW going to improve things though ?
 

DC’s ultimatum to PW.
 

1. Never play with wing backs again

2. Never play with two holding midfielders again.

3. Up the tempo and maintain it from KO til full time.

4. Pass and move and stop dawdling on the ball.

5. Stop hoofing it up the channels and play through midfield.

6. Teach the players how to cross, shoot earlier while concentrating on body shape.

7. Give the lad Brown a go upfront.

8. Where is the set piece specialism ?

9. Lose the bobble hat.

This made me smile, but I seriously hope that DC has laid down ultimatums. DC knows a lot about football and how it should be played and the kind of football he wants to see played. I hope he is currently being very hands on and offering positive advice and ultimatums to all.

[Mick Brolly]

9 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If you had to guess where do you reckon we sit in terms of budget relative to the rest of the division?

7th

[IlsonDerby]

9 hours ago, Mick Brolly said:

Everyone says we have one of the best budgets in the division which we may well have but not one person knows any of the budgets so until they do we're all guessing.

Right Mick and @G STAR RAM 

are we happy that derby would have had the second highest/highest attendances in the division last season? Which gives us a financial edge over the rest of the division. 
 

I think it’s the athletic but it’s certainly been reported somewhere that we still made an operating loss last season which would suggest Clowes has allowed that income to be spent (and then some). 
 

If we are bringing in more money than all but Sheff Weds and we’ve spent it all, surely it reasons that we had one of the bigger budgets in the division? 
 

We’ve then over the summer signed a bunch of players on their last decent contracts which have involved dropping down a division so you’d assume they’d be on steady money. The free agents tend to be on higher wages too because the club didn’t have to pay a fee so I don’t think our budget will have shrank from last year.