Will Clowes patience soon run out?

[Gerry Daly]

Lets wait for the next crap result and performance, probably tonight, to sharpen up the debate a bit

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, sage said:

For every Bradley there are 2 great players like Nelson or Smith.

Perhaps the message is more along the lines of getting business done early, at least permanent deals

Last summer, Smith was our last first team permanent signing (July 16th) with Rooney (August 8th) being an U21 signing. Roberts was the only loan signing made before August, due to him being lined up by Rosenior in advance of the window opening.

This summer, despite more time to prepare and line up exactly who we wanted, we still didn't sign Waghorn until August 7th, Fornah until August 25th, and Nyambe until September 19th. It was also the first time since 2016 that we haven't had a disrupted summer window (due to either playoffs or embargoes!)

Going further back, these are our August (or later) perm signings.
2021 - Allsop/Stearman (August 6th), Ravel (August 7th), Jagielka/Baldock (August 17th)
2020 - Marshall (August 21st), Byrne (September 10th), Jozwiak (September 16th), Ibe (September 22nd), Kazim (October 15th) [Late window due to Covid disruptions]
2019 - Bielik (August 2nd)
2018 - Malone/Waghorn (August 8th), Holmes (August 9th)
2017 - Lawrence (August 15th), Ledley (September 20th)
2016 - Vydra (August 27th), Anya/Weale (August 31st)
2015 - Johnson/Butterfield (September 1st)
2014 - None
2013 - None
2012 - O'Connor (August 1st), Sammon (August 20th), Freeman (August 22nd)
2011 - Riggott (August 1st)
2010 - Doyle (August 6th)

On balance, I'd be scared to pay a fee for a player in August (or September) ever again 😮

[Mucker1884]

24 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

I am amazed that people are giving so much time and space to the Warne in/out saga when thousands of people are being killed in the Israel/Gazza strip conflict.There are far more important needs to be addressed.

If it wasn't for the pesky fact that you posted this in the middle of a "Warne in/Warne out" themed thread, on an internet forum set up specifically by Derby County Football Club fans for Derby County Football Club fans to discuss "All things Derby County Football Club related, plus a few other bits", I reckon you'd have got away with that.

I suspect (but stand to be corrected) that somewhere out there in webland, there is the very place for discussions on this admittedly tragic latest episode in world history.

I hope you find it.  

[RoyMac5]

Just now, CongletonRam said:

I'm not suggesting that RoyMac.

Sage has suggested that we have a top 2 squad and I am asking him what he bases that on. What makes our squad more significant than our rivals? A perfectly well balanced question.

Our squad is easily as good as the top 2 - how it is used is more pertinent. The composition seems very short term I agree. But when Warne makes comments about spending on JCH not  being the way to go and then you look at his choice of signings you have to wonder 🤔 His squad has players he wanted to sign for Rotherham and players he has signed for us. He has turned down the opportunity to pay fees, spending instead on wages. 

If he chooses to ignore younger lower league players I'd say I'm not surprised, see how he treats our own young players. So while he was chasing Wilson last season - who is 23 - he looks nothing like the finished article. But Tommo had to go out on loan last season to get game time. Warne suggested it was to do with how he trained and not being ready, for me I see Wilson could be viewed in the same way yet he gets chosen. So finally Warne plays Tommo in he preferred role and he starts to look a player. Bird on Saturday, what on earth happened there! 

There's lots of examples of Warne's ineptitude, it's not the squad however they are composed.

[Walkley Ram]

3 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

If it wasn't for the pesky fact that you posted this in the middle of a "Warne in/Warne out" themed thread, on an internet forum set up specifically by Derby County Football Club fans for Derby County Football Club fans to discuss "All things Derby County Football Club related, plus a few other bits", I reckon you'd have got away with that.

I suspect (but stand to be corrected) that somewhere out there in webland, there is the very place for discussions on this admittedly tragic latest episode in world history.

I hope you find it.  

There's a middle-eastern forum where I've been complaining about Paul Warne, but I don't think I'm allowed to link that here.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Our squad is easily as good as the top 2 - how it is used is more pertinent. The composition seems very short term I agree. But when Warne makes comments about spending on JCH not  being the way to go and then you look at his choice of signings you have to wonder 🤔 His squad has players he wanted to sign for Rotherham and players he has signed for us. He has turned down the opportunity to pay fees, spending instead on wages. 

If he chooses to ignore younger lower league players I'd say I'm not surprised, see how he treats our own young players. So while he was chasing Wilson last season - who is 23 - he looks nothing like the finished article. But Tommo had to go out on loan last season to get game time. Warne suggested it was to do with how he trained and not being ready, for me I see Wilson could be viewed in the same way yet he gets chosen. So finally Warne plays Tommo in he preferred role and he starts to look a player. Bird on Saturday, what on earth happened there! 

There's lots of examples of Warne's ineptitude, it's not the squad however they are composed.

I refer back to comments made by Wildsmith. He had to leave Sheffield Wednesday because it's easy to drop the academy graduate no matter how he performed.

Sibley and Thompson appear to fall in the same category.

[Gerry Daly]

49 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

I am amazed that people are giving so much time and space to the Warne in/out saga when thousands of people are being killed in the Israel/Gazza strip conflict.There are far more important needs to be addressed.

What on a Derby County football thread? 

[CongletonRam]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Our squad is easily as good as the top 2 - how it is used is more pertinent. The composition seems very short term I agree. But when Warne makes comments about spending on JCH not  being the way to go and then you look at his choice of signings you have to wonder 🤔 His squad has players he wanted to sign for Rotherham and players he has signed for us. He has turned down the opportunity to pay fees, spending instead on wages. 

If he chooses to ignore younger lower league players I'd say I'm not surprised, see how he treats our own young players. So while he was chasing Wilson last season - who is 23 - he looks nothing like the finished article. But Tommo had to go out on loan last season to get game time. Warne suggested it was to do with how he trained and not being ready, for me I see Wilson could be viewed in the same way yet he gets chosen. So finally Warne plays Tommo in he preferred role and he starts to look a player. Bird on Saturday, what on earth happened there! 

There's lots of examples of Warne's ineptitude, it's not the squad however they are composed.

RoyMac, again, I agree with you.

Watching us at the moment is painful and some of the selection decisions, and tactical decisions leave me baffled. However, I am looking at the bigger picture and Warne is comparatively new into the role certainly with this squad of players and I think he needs time.

We also have to understand the transfer market with which we are dealing. Any lower league/free transfer with any modicum of quality is  wanted by numerous clubs, all of whom have options. Signings we made were not likely first choice and Warne certainly didn't get the signings he wanted over the line. He made it clear he wanted a striker.

I hope the club will give Warne this season and likely next. He has a great record at this level and this is why we brought him in. He is well aware of the squads shortcomings and will address them if and when he has the finances.

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

RoyMac, again, I agree with you.

Watching us at the moment is painful and some of the selection decisions, and tactical decisions leave me baffled. However, I am looking at the bigger picture and Warne is comparatively new into the role certainly with this squad of players and I think he needs time.

We also have to understand the transfer market with which we are dealing. Any lower league/free transfer with any modicum of quality is  wanted by numerous clubs, all of whom have options. Signings we made were not likely first choice and Warne certainly didn't get the signings he wanted over the line. He made it clear he wanted a striker.

I hope the club will give Warne this season and likely next. He has a great record at this level and this is why we brought him in. He is well aware of the squads shortcomings and will address them if and when he has the finances.

He has had plenty of time in the job already and as he was employed as an expert at promotion from League 1 has shown little sign of that.

As you say other teams are competing for similar/same players - why aren't we signing them? I've put my reasoning down. Your reason seems to consist of they chose to go elsewhere. Yes but why when we are arguably the biggest club in this division, with Premier League aims. 

Why wouldn't they want to come here? Edit - or why doesn't Warne want them? 

We have more of everything in this league than just about any other club, why should our recruitment mean we aren't as competitive, with as good a squad as the rest?

Edited October 10, 2023 by RoyMac5

[hintonsboots]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why wouldn't they want to come here? 

The midfielders don’t want to spend the entire game doing shuttle runs between penalty areas without touching the ball ?

[Ghost of Clough]

11 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

RoyMac, again, I agree with you.

Watching us at the moment is painful and some of the selection decisions, and tactical decisions leave me baffled. However, I am looking at the bigger picture and Warne is comparatively new into the role certainly with this squad of players and I think he needs time.

We also have to understand the transfer market with which we are dealing. Any lower league/free transfer with any modicum of quality is  wanted by numerous clubs, all of whom have options. Signings we made were not likely first choice and Warne certainly didn't get the signings he wanted over the line. He made it clear he wanted a striker.

I hope the club will give Warne this season and likely next. He has a great record at this level and this is why we brought him in. He is well aware of the squads shortcomings and will address them if and when he has the finances.

FYI, Warne is now the 10th longest serving manager in the league.

The question on why we missed out on our preferred targets should therefore be asked. Perhaps they preferred the clear style of football which would be implemented at the likes of Oxford, Wigan, etc?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Malagaram said:

I am amazed that people are giving so much time and space to the Warne in/out saga when thousands of people are being killed in the Israel/Gazza strip conflict.There are far more important needs to be addressed.

It's a terrible thing that is happening in the Middle East but most of us are capable of caring about and discussing more than one topic at a time. 

[BondJovi]

37 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

FYI, Warne is now the 10th longest serving manager in the league.

The question on why we missed out on our preferred targets should therefore be asked. Perhaps they preferred the clear style of football which would be implemented at the likes of Oxford, Wigan, etc?

Considering we managed to convince players to join us when we were facing an incredibly uncertain future and almost certain relegation, and players of a reasonable quality, you do wonder why we had difficulties now when the club is as stable as it has been for 5 years... 

Warne is the first manager who can have no excuses for his transfer dealings since Lampard. 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

It's an argument as old as time itself. The old cliche "they wouldn't be playing at this level if they were more consistent" - usually trotted out as an excuse for a manager failing to get the best out of someone, a giant shrug of the shoulders explained away in one statement. (I know you're not doing that here)

Yes, we all ("any fools") know that the lower you go the more inconsistent a player's output it is, but you can't just say League One players are inconsistent and that's that, there's nothing we can do about it, we just have to put up with it and can't expect better.

The degree of consistency within whichever league still varies greatly between players due to a number of factors, whether it's the players natural ability, their mentality, the system they're used in, how much of the ball they see compared to their teammates, which areas of the pitch they get involved most in, etc

It's every manager's job to build cohesive and relatively consistent team from the players available to them at whatever level they're operating and every season 2 teams (by definition of winning automatic promotion, 3 if including play-off winners), end up showing more consistency than others,  but were you to follow the logic you've posted above to its natural conclusion, that can't be possible!

 

Nope, it’s just a factor like many other factors that has to be taken into account, im ok to see how much warne gets out of this group over a SEASON or at minimum till Xmas , some aren’t, some want to base it over 11 games , the top two have had a better start but let’s see how many points they pick up when they hit a sticky patch which they will , of course warne is under a bit of pressure just now but this is when we find if he can cut it when it’s not all plain sailing , I’ve parked my disapointment / frustration from Cambridge and Cheltenham and considered we are unbeaten for a fair few games and could easily click and start turning draws into wins , if we get rid now I would always be wondering if warne could have improved results and got us up so I guess I’m just not at the point where I’ve lost all faith and think the bloke is a clown , fraud , PE teacher like some have 🤷🏻‍♂️

[YorkshireRam]

2 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Lets wait for the next crap result and performance, probably tonight, to sharpen up the debate a bit

 

[Gerry Daly]

I'm imagining that guy as Chris Kirchner

[MadAmster]

On 09/10/2023 at 16:45, Blondest Goat said:

How do you know this?  Who's to say it hasn't been ring-fenced?  Would be pretty stupid not to.  Particularly after Warnes under-performance last season.

It might have been but, this is Derby we're talking about. Plus that good old business plan with a maximum spend, apparently higher than last season, but does it factor in sacking PW and 3 coaches? I doubt it.

[NOTSA74]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

It might have been but, this is Derby we're talking about. Plus that good old business plan with a maximum spend, apparently higher than last season, but does it factor in sacking PW and 3 coaches? I doubt it.

Given that almost no manager last four years I would imagine that there is an accrual within the accounts to at least part-fund this or a contract term that offers some sort of breakpoint or reduced payoffs.

There is also the opportunity cost of not sacking them but that is hard to quantify.

[Malagaram]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Yet you have time to read it.

 

You are wrong there Mr Sage

[sage]

7 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

You are wrong there Mr Sage

Fair play. Replying to a post you haven't read takes skill