Will Clowes patience soon run out?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, cool_as_custard said:

This is getting so tedious, especially as one man and his trusted advisers are the only people who matter here. Categorically, the business plan will not include funds set aside/ringfenced for sacking a manager. That doesn't mean they won't have considered that PW won't make it to the end of his contract but any cash needed to pay the 4 of them off will undoubtedly come out of the playing budget. 

Generally clubs are not run like we used to be. We need to remember where MM and his scattergun approach to hiring and firing got us. Changing from 433 possession based with Mac to RealMadrid mk2 with Clement (spunking £10m in one day on BJ and Butterfingers), hard running, lots of effort with Pearson, back again to 433 with Mac v2, kick and rush with Rowett, 433 with Fat Frank, totalfootball with Cocu, Rosenior-ball under Rooney and now the patented League 1 no control but lots of crosses with PW.

I am not saying Clowes will not pull the plug but a 4 year contract, being singleminded in who he wanted and being just outside the playoffs before Autumn is here tells me it isn't likely to be anytime soon. So the endless new threads by people wanting their 15 mins of DCFCFans glory finding new ways to criticise PW are very premature. IMHO. I expect Clowes will look at all the good things that have happened under PW rather than concentrate on the negative. 

As others have said, the sense of entitlement in our fanbase is off the scale. Last week wasn't perfect but 5 points from 3 games is 76 points, as is 18 from 11, but with the positives of Nyambe, Nelson, Fornah, Wilson plus Bird, Hourihane fit to play, solid back 5, with Ward back soon. 

Having said all that, if football owners can sack Eustace with their team in 6th, then anything can happen. But I trust Mr Clowes with my club much more than that.

I'd say the Birmingham sacking of Eustace has very little to do with the performance of him or the team and far more to do with the long term filling of commercial coffers. The appointment of Rooney on the back of his terrible record in the US, to me, consolidates that opinion

[CongletonRam]

Win our game in hand and we're in the play-offs.

You'd have to have a seriously nasty vendetta to sack a man with the club in such a position, particularly as he has had no money to spend and dabble in a market of free transfers.

Less than a quarter of the season to go, performances have improved every so slightly, the team has some serious shortcomings of which I do not blame Warne for the reasons I previously mentioned.

What exactly do you want? What are your expectations long term? I am intrigued as to the state of mind to anyone that would seriously want our manager gone. Who would you replace him with? What would you have the players do differently? 

What was your tipping point for wanting Warne out, as you appear to have made your mind up?

Oh, and my last question to you. How do you suggest going about the financial implications of firing Warne (and his backroom staff as we may as well throw them all in) and is this approach sustainable?

Edited October 9, 2023 by CongletonRam

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Is this the new debating tactic on here now to try and give credence to your opinion by repeating the same point over and over and over but subtlety changing the thread title ever so slightly each time?

Sounds desperate. 

Yes, it is. Warne remains an unsophisticated footballing throwback who's too expensive to sack.

[8Leeds]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

No I've always stated as others have on here that the number of duplicate threads being started to say exactly the same thing is beyond tedious now. 

Seems you have a some what masochistic tendencies. 

[winktheram]

1 hour ago, CongletonRam said:

Win our game in hand and we're in the play-offs.

You'd have to have a seriously nasty vendetta to sack a man with the club in such a position, particularly as he has had no money to spend and dabble in a market of free transfers.

Less than a quarter of the season to go, performances have improved every so slightly, the team has some serious shortcomings of which I do not blame Warne for the reasons I previously mentioned.

What exactly do you want? What are your expectations long term? I am intrigued as to the state of mind to anyone that would seriously want our manager gone. Who would you replace him with? What would you have the players do differently? 

What was your tipping point for wanting Warne out, as you appear to have made your mind up?

Oh, and my last question to you. How do you suggest going about the financial implications of firing Warne (and his backroom staff as we may as well throw them all in) and is this approach sustainable?

3 weeks ago it was 'win the game in hand and we go 2nd'. For me the tipping point will be 'win the game in hand and we go 10th'  if we're not in the playoffs at the turn of the year he has to go. 

I'm not so sure we'd have to pay up all the contract, as despite the length of contracts given, it's  usually a rolling 12month severance for pay. But you're probably right it'll still have financial implications to fire his team. But can we afford not to if we are adrift of the top 2 by then?

[CongletonRam]

39 minutes ago, winktheram said:

3 weeks ago it was 'win the game in hand and we go 2nd'. For me the tipping point will be 'win the game in hand and we go 10th'  if we're not in the playoffs at the turn of the year he has to go. 

I'm not so sure we'd have to pay up all the contract, as despite the length of contracts given, it's  usually a rolling 12month severance for pay. But you're probably right it'll still have financial implications to fire his team. But can we afford not to if we are adrift of the top 2 by then?

Then it's merely a case of expectation. I don't see missing out on promotion as the tipping point. I'd like to see an improvement in performance, a few more chances created and DCFC looking like a team that can challenge in this league that is woefully short on quality.

If however we miss out, then so be it, we'll go again next season.

Give the guy a proper chance at turning our club around. So many fans seem to be of the opinion that our players are capable of more than what we are producing but I don't get this. We are a team riddled with free transfers and lower league journeymen. That is the market in which we are fishing.

[sage]

2 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Then it's merely a case of expectation. I don't see missing out on promotion as the tipping point. I'd like to see an improvement in performance, a few more chances created and DCFC looking like a team that can challenge in this league that is woefully short on quality.

If however we miss out, then so be it, we'll go again next season.

Give the guy a proper chance at turning our club around. So many fans seem to be of the opinion that our players are capable of more than what we are producing but I don't get this. We are a team riddled with free transfers and lower league journeymen. That is the market in which we are fishing.

Who are the lower league journeymen?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Then it's merely a case of expectation. I don't see missing out on promotion as the tipping point. I'd like to see an improvement in performance, a few more chances created and DCFC looking like a team that can challenge in this league that is woefully short on quality.

If however we miss out, then so be it, we'll go again next season.

Give the guy a proper chance at turning our club around. So many fans seem to be of the opinion that our players are capable of more than what we are producing but I don't get this. We are a team riddled with free transfers and lower league journeymen. That is the market in which we are fishing.

The players absolutely are capable of more. We all know this because on the rare occasion they are let of the leash and set up in a way that works for them we look great.

Warne then seems to have a bout of amnesia and reverts back to his overly cautious, tactically inept , guffball tactics.

It's why I am so unbelievably frustrated because I know that both Warne and the squad have got it in them, for some reason they just refuse to do it often enough.

[Eaststander7]

7 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Bring John Eustace in. 

Amazing then we can demand he’s sacked if he doesn’t win his first 10 games 5-0 playing champagne football.  We could then have another round of polls??? 
I’m so excited I can’t sleep!! 

[CongletonRam]

29 minutes ago, sage said:

Who are the lower league journeymen?

Players of a certain age, that have played the majority of their career at League One or lower:

Conor Hourihane, Sonny Bradley, James Collins, Mendez-Liang, Conor Washington, Callum Elder, Joe Ward, Curtis Nelson. Stats suggest that none of those players are any better than League One. Some have played in higher league, but none have done much playing any higher.

We seem to think we have this squad that should be up there challenging. Why?

I think we have. a top 8 squad, and maybe a top 6 squad if the fans are fully behind the team.

Edited October 9, 2023 by CongletonRam

[sage]

8 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Players of a certain age, that have played the majority of their career at League One or lower:

Conor Hourihane, Sonny Bradley, James Collins, Mendez-Liang, Conor Washington, Callum Elder, Joe Ward, Curtis Nelson. Stats suggest that none of those players are any better than League One. Some have played in higher league, but none have done much playing any higher.

We seem to think we have this squad that should be up there challenging. Why?

I think we have. a top 8 squad, and maybe a top 6 squad if the fans are fully behind the team.

Hourihane? Nelson? NML? Seriously?

Name the squads better than ours.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by sage

[CongletonRam]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Hourihane? Nelson? NML? Seriously?

Name the squads better than ours.

 

I'm dealing with stats, you are dealing with unrealistic expectation.

I answered your question about our journeymen and their stats bare out they are no more than League One players. They may have played at a higher levels, but they have played the majority of their careers at League One or below. Those are facts.

It would take me too much time to analyze the strengths of other squads, but I wouldn't say we are much better on paper, if at all, than the likes of Bolton, Barnsley, Portsmouth, Peterborough to name but four.

Add to that, that we are a new team, thrown together using mostly free transfers. Other clubs are ahead of us in terms of their team dynamic as they have had that time to gel and play together.

 

[sage]

6 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

I'm dealing with stats, you are dealing with unrealistic expectation.

I answered your question about our journeymen and their stats bare out they are no more than League One players. They may have played at a higher levels, but they have played the majority of their careers at League One or below. Those are facts.

It would take me too much time to analyze the strengths of other squads, but I wouldn't say we are much better on paper, if at all, than the likes of Bolton, Barnsley, Portsmouth, Peterborough to name but four.

Add to that, that we are a new team, thrown together using mostly free transfers. Other clubs are ahead of us in terms of their team dynamic as they have had that time to gel and play together.

 

So you have no intention of checking the facts on which you based your comment but it wouldn't surprise you if you were right.

Outstanding 

 

[sage]

8 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

I'm dealing with stats, you are dealing with unrealistic expectation.

I answered your question about our journeymen and their stats bare out they are no more than League One players. They may have played at a higher levels, but they have played the majority of their careers at League One or below. Those are facts.

It would take me too much time to analyze the strengths of other squads, but I wouldn't say we are much better on paper, if at all, than the likes of Bolton, Barnsley, Portsmouth, Peterborough to name but four.

Add to that, that we are a new team, thrown together using mostly free transfers. Other clubs are ahead of us in terms of their team dynamic as they have had that time to gel and play together.

 

Elder has played more time in the Championship than below and that is the first one I checked.

Stats

[sage]

12 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

I'm dealing with stats, you are dealing with unrealistic expectation.

I answered your question about our journeymen and their stats bare out they are no more than League One players. They may have played at a higher levels, but they have played the majority of their careers at League One or below. Those are facts.

It would take me too much time to analyze the strengths of other squads, but I wouldn't say we are much better on paper, if at all, than the likes of Bolton, Barnsley, Portsmouth, Peterborough to name but four.

Add to that, that we are a new team, thrown together using mostly free transfers. Other clubs are ahead of us in terms of their team dynamic as they have had that time to gel and play together.

 

Hourihane spent half of his career before us playing in the Championship and Premier League, including the previous 6 seasons.

That's the second one I checked.

Bonus stat. How many other League One clubs have to postpone games due to international commitments?

[CongletonRam]

1 minute ago, sage said:

So you have no intention of checking the facts on which you based your comment but it wouldn't surprise you if you were right.

Outstanding 

 

Instead of having a go at me, why do you suddenly think we have a squad capable of promotion?

What do you base this on?

I have never said that other squads are better than ours, what I have said is that we are a squad full of journeymen and DCFC fans are blinded in their views if we think that a team full of said journeymen are any better than our opposition.

Again, what is the basis of your argument to suggest we are under-performing and are capable of so much more?　

Is it because we have the amazing Conor Hourihane, who has done precious little in a Derby shirt, Nelson, who looks assured at the back and has found his level; or the other player you names NML, who has shown in fits and starts that he can make a difference albeit there has to be question marks over his ability to play 90 minutes twice a week. Nonce of these are exceptional players at this level. Their career stats back that despite it nit supporting your rather boring and predictable argument.

[CongletonRam]

8 minutes ago, sage said:

Elder has played more time in the Championship than below and that is the first one I checked.

Stats

please, please.

110 games at League One or below.

102 games in the Championship.

 

 

 

[CongletonRam]

10 minutes ago, sage said:

Hourihane spent half of his career before us playing in the Championship and Premier League, including the previous 6 seasons.

That's the second one I checked.

Bonus stat. How many other League One clubs have to postpone games due to international commitments?

please, please.

263 games at League One or below.

205 games in the Championship.

I was right again.

 

You did understand my point, yes?

Players that have played the majority of their career, so the larger amount of game time, at a level lower than the Championship.

I must check, as you have come back to me twice now claiming what I said was inaccurate. It is not. Stop arguing with stats.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by CongletonRam

[sage]

3 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Instead of having a go at me, why do you suddenly think we have a squad capable of promotion?

What do you base this on?

I have never said that other squads are better than ours, what I have said is that we are a squad full of journeymen and DCFC fans are blinded in their views if we think that a team full of said journeymen are any better than our opposition.

Again, what is the basis of your argument to suggest we are under-performing and are capable of so much more?　

Is it because we have the amazing Conor Hourihane, who has done precious little in a Derby shirt, Nelson, who looks assured at the back and has found his level; or the other player you names NML, who has shown in fits and starts that he can make a difference albeit there has to be question marks over his ability to play 90 minutes twice a week. Nonce of these are exceptional players at this level. Their career stats back that despite it nit supporting your rather boring and predictable argument.

You said we have a top 8 squad, maybe top 6 squad if the fans cheer. Wow. You clearly haven't compared our squad to others so you've just snatched that out of thin air.

So I suddenly think something but at the same time it's boring and predictable. Interesting.

I said I'd wouldn't swap our squad with any other club.

I'd suggest we have a top 2 squad. Only Bolton is comparible. Nothing is guaranteed but with this squad we shouldn't be going to a team with one point and no goals from 10 games and bypass midfield in case they contest it ffs.

 

 

[CongletonRam]

1 minute ago, sage said:

You said we have a top 8 squad, maybe top 6 squad if the fans cheer. Wow. You clearly haven't compared our squad to others so you've just snatched that out of thin air.

So I suddenly think something but at the same time it's boring and predictable. Interesting.

I said I'd wouldn't swap our squad with any other club.

I'd suggest we have a top 2 squad. Only Bolton is comparible. Nothing is guaranteed but with this squad we shouldn't be going to a team with one point and no goals from 10 games and bypass midfield in case they contest it ffs.

 

 

 

What do you base this on? A top 2 squad?

Who are those 'top 2' League One players?

Name them, Sage.