Match Thread: vs Bolton (A)

[CBRammette]

29 minutes ago, sage said:

What did he say?

Lots - worth a listen if still on bbc sounds - talked a lot about players not stepping up/having character after sending off, playing for team/club, tactics, subs, not starting/bringing on cash first - lots! Oh and about ref!!

Edited September 2, 2023 by CBRammette
Ref

[8Leeds]

8 minutes ago, Topram said:

Yes i Saw it I was there like most games, Pw was brought in for a reason not pretty football but promotion maybe if people got behind it and not call for his head after every loss would help, Ipswich Sunderland Bolton loads like us we’re stuck we aren’t entitled like people think it’s a tough league 

Yeah, it’s our fault we can’t pass the ball more than 4 times without losing it or hitting it long to no one and then be put back on the counter.

Maybe we need to show character and be good people.

Edited September 2, 2023 by 8Leeds
To add some sarcasm

[Anag Ram]

Question is, does this squad play for the manager?

Do we see players coming on to the pitch looking like they mean business? 

Do they look like they know the plan and their role within it?

I think the answer is no.

[Archie]

27 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

During the Radio Derby interview Warne must have said that Bolton are a "possession based side" three times. Said like that it sounds as though we're set up to not be, which is mad. Why wouldn't you want to keep the ball? I know he probably meant that they pass the ball a lot, but that's what we should be doing as well.

David Clowes made the (incorrect) decision this time last year to move away from a possession based approach (which suited our squad much better imo) when he hired Warne. He knew what he was losing. He knew what he was getting. Since then, this chaotic, maverick style has ensued. We'll win some games sometimes, like last weekend, but more often than not we'll lose and be frustrated - it really is a tough watch. Nothing new implemented this season, no sense of a renewed direction and a totally wasted summer (Warne's first) that should have been grabbed by the scruff of the neck the minute after the last kick of last season. 

[cheron85]

Did we play the car crash wing back formation again? 

We've got some very decent midfielders - probably amongst the best in the league - and he seems to want to play around them not through them - absolutely mind boggling 

[Tamworthram]

17 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Haven't had time to catch up with this thread but my take on today was that we didn't do the ugly stuff well at all today. Fozzy looked like the only one that was up for it and won the majority of his battles.

The amount of times we let their centre halves just stroll 10/15 yards forward unchallenged was embarrassing. They will not have an easier afternoon than we gave them today. 

I think we missed Thompson ratting about, picking up second balls. We also could have done with him to sit on their lad Dempsey(I think that's his name). He also had an easy afternoon and we made him look a world beater.

It was a poor performance that was confounded by the the sending off. Making it an almost impossible task. However we bizarrely did seem more up for it once we went down to 10 men. Anybody seen the sending off back? Was it a fair decision? 

To be fair, it wasn’t just the ugly stuff we failed to do well. Second best by an absolute mile especially in the first half. But, we dust ourselves down and go again in two weeks time.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Question is, does this squad play for the manager?

Do we see players coming on to the pitch looking like they mean business? 

Do they look like they know the plan and their role within it?

I think the answer is no.

See I disagree here. I thought they fought really hard today to play as they'd been asked and really wanted to at least draw the game. But mostly no football broke out in this war.

[Topram]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you think we'd win more games if the forum was empty of comments? 😄

No just full of slagging players coaches off 

[Tamworthram]

56 minutes ago, Topram said:

Hard to beat the officials 

I was at the game today. Maybe I’m miss remembering and I can’t bring myself to watch the highlights yet but, were the officials really that bad or is it the usual “let’s blame the ref”?
 

No Derby player seemed to complain that much about the sending off and, despite Smith’s protests, live (and from a different angle to the ref) their penalty looked the right decision. We had a few penalty appeals in the second half but, again without the benefit of seeing a replay, none of them looked like penalties to me.

[Anag Ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

See I disagree here. I thought they fought really hard today to play as they'd been asked and really wanted to at least draw the game. But mostly no football broke out in this war.

But a committed side plays like that from the start of the game, closing down the opposition, kicking them when necessary to break their rhythm.

We are meek. We allow teams to play because we don’t have the energy or the aggression to stop them. 

We’ve been like that for years but at least we used to play football, passing it nicely in triangles and being brave enough to try stuff.

I don’t think we can play both Smith and Hourihane in the same team. They like to play in their own sweet time but they aren’t going to get the time to do that in this league.

Warne comes out week after week and blames the players.

But this season they are his players and we’re worse than last year.

 

[kevinhectoring]

58 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

NML is a good player when played out wide unfortunately when his role requires him into a “wingback” position he works hard at his defending and then doesn’t have the legs for his attacking role.

I think I would rather see NML left  in an attacking role, he isn’t a natural defender and we lose his attacking threat when we use him as a defender. 

Using NML as a wingback we have an adequate defender and a tired attacker. 

he’s not a starter he should be a 65 minute sub who wreaks havoc against a tiring defence.  

[Premier ram]

27 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Nobody loves a 🐏 defeat, we are all fans at the end of the day and disappointed when things don’t go our way.

I have just spent the best part of 100 minutes supporting our lads at the game in very difficult circumstances , to come on here and read some of the remarks continually made against the manager and most of the players I really do despair , I get the fact we are all fans but the constant digging by some posters is wearing very thin

[Steve How Hard?]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

To be fair, it wasn’t just the ugly stuff we failed to do well. Second best by an absolute mile especially in the first half. But, we dust ourselves down and go again in two weeks time.

Fair point. I suppose I didn't word it too well. I suppose what I meant to say is we didn't earn the right to play by not doing the basics well enough.

As you say, second best all around. Annoying really, as on our day we should be a match for Bolton but we were that bad, we made them look world beaters. One to forget and move on. Bad day at the office. 

[Topram]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I was at the game today. Maybe I’m miss remembering and I can’t bring myself to watch the highlights yet but, were the officials really that bad or is it the usual “let’s blame the ref”?
 

No Derby player seemed to complain that much about the sending off and, despite Smith’s protests, live (and from a different angle to the ref) their penalty looked the right decision. We had a few penalty appeals in the second half but, again without the benefit of seeing a replay, none of them looked like penalties to me.

The Bradley one at 1-1 was a clear pen, 50/50 with there pen outside the box

[MadAmster]

At 0-0 Handball not given. Should have been. We then score but get a penalty instead. 0-1 (shades of Attwell?). They get a penalty. Was it one? I'll have to see it when the highlights get posted. It was definitely a foul but it looked just outside the area to me. Free kick, not a penalty and certainlynot 1-1. Wildsmith? Again the video didn't show where it hit him. Maybe we'll get a better view later? Big shout for handball in the 2nd half. The Bolton player was on the ground, leaning on his hands, the ball hits his right arm but as he's supporting his body, it's not a penalty. They're a good side. Had us working hard from the off. From about 25 minutes we got into it. Gave them too much time and space early doors but we defended well. Should have gone in a goal up at HT. After the sending off they took control again but needed an OG to take the lead. Fournah had a good game but we really missed Tommo's energy. Not how you want to go into a 2 week break but that's football. 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I was at the game today. Maybe I’m miss remembering and I can’t bring myself to watch the highlights yet but, were the officials really that bad or is it the usual “let’s blame the ref”?
 

No Derby player seemed to complain that much about the sending off and, despite Smith’s protests, live (and from a different angle to the ref) their penalty looked the right decision. We had a few penalty appeals in the second half but, again without the benefit of seeing a replay, none of them looked like penalties to me.

Thought the ref was, as is often the case, inconsistent. He gave a penalty for a foul in the box on Elder but there was lots of wrestlin he ignored including a really obvious one against Bradley (it seemed obvious but on tv obvs). They let play go on most of the time for nudges and shoves, but then other times give the foul. Thought Smith's 'challenge' might have been outside the box, but really what kind of challenge was it.

I think the lack of dealing well with them, sitting back and letting them come at us, especially in wide areas was more of a problem than the ref. That and our lack of midfield 'play'. Not sure why Fournah started forward when Hourihane would have been better there. Not sure why Smith started! 😄 

Edited September 2, 2023 by RoyMac5

[kevinhectoring]

17 minutes ago, Archie said:

David Clowes made the (incorrect) decision this time last year to move away from a possession based approach (which suited our squad much better imo) when he hired Warne. He knew what he was losing. He knew what he was getting

I don't think DC was making a footballing decision at all. I think he was advised that he needed an established management team with a proven track record of success. Which Warne has. 

I’m not saying it was a good decision but I think that was the rationale

[Elwood P Dowd]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

he’s not a starter he should be a 65 minute sub who wreaks havoc against a tiring defence.  

That’s an option, I would rather we use his strengths.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, Topram said:

The Bradley one at 1-1 was a clear pen, 50/50 with there pen outside the box

Fair enough. I can’t really comment any further on their penalty until I’ve seen it again but, unless you’ve seen a replay, you can’t categorically say (in fact you’re not) their “penalty” was outside the box. 
 

I don’t remember any of our penalty appeals being clear penalties.

[Jourdan]

Let’s see where we are after 20-25 games.

It has been an unconvincing start to the season, but there’s no need to hit the panic button. Warne has two weeks now to take stock and hopefully pinpoint and work on issues. We are four points off the top, not fourteen. We have forty games to course correct, not four. Let’s not overreact.

The concerns over the performances and the style of play are valid, but equally the side isn’t settled in any way and evidently that makes performing fluently more difficult.

Injuries, suspensions, players new and old struggling to blend, some players desperately struggling for fitness and form, and of course game changing lapses by officials and experienced players - there are a multitude of issues that are hitting us hard all at once.

What can we truly read into six league games? One week, everything goes for us, the next nothing does. We need a bigger sample size and we need a more settled XI and more coherent and consistent set up before we can judge. Could this side look different with a back four and Fornah, Embleton and Thompson in midfield, for instance?

People want to press the eject button before a squad with 11 new signings and a manager 12 months into the job and still working things out genuinely finds true synergy.

Comparing us to Bolton, where Evatt has been in charge for three years and has been able to tweak and improve the team year on year, is pointless. The circumstances are completely different.

We need to give it time.