Points Deduction, Who's Next And When Will It Stop?

[Gritstone Ram]

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/september/13/efl-statement--reading-fc/

[Zag zig]

On 17/08/2023 at 16:00, Gaspode said:

And on the day that Reading got their latest point deduction for failing to pay their players, they signed another player....complete lack of consistency from the EFL...

 

On 24/08/2023 at 16:46, RadioactiveWaste said:

You gotta wonder why players are signing for a club that doesn't pay them....

I’m scratching my head trying to understand when we had a strict business plan last year and still have restrictions this year, how the heck do Reading keep signing players? 

Only 4 days ago they bought in another keeper? As @RadioactiveWaste questions, why would you go to Reading knowing they are struggling to pay your wages 🤔

[Shipley Ram]

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

On 24/08/2023 at 16:46, RadioactiveWaste said:

You gotta wonder why players are signing for a club that doesn't pay them....

or indeed, how they're allowed too and have been for 3 years.

[Animal is a Ram]

14 hours ago, Zag zig said:

 

I’m scratching my head trying to understand when we had a strict business plan last year and still have restrictions this year, how the heck do Reading keep signing players? 

Only 4 days ago they bought in another keeper? As @RadioactiveWaste questions, why would you go to Reading knowing they are struggling to pay your wages 🤔

As per the fans forum - we don't have any EFL restrictions this year.

But otherwise yes, it does boggle the mind somewhat.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Animal is a Ram said:

As per the fans forum - we don't have any EFL restrictions this year.

But otherwise yes, it does boggle the mind somewhat.

I always felt that there's a bit of a slight of hand about EFL restrictions - it's true that we're not under EFL restrictions, but, we're not under EFL restrictions on the condition we stick to a business plan that the EFL agreed with us.

On exiting the administration restrictions were to be for 2 years, I highly doubt that they just went "ok, 1 year was enough after all"

In practical terms it probably doesn't make much difference anyway,and, it's better all around for this to be the route.

 

[SuffolkRam]

14 hours ago, Shipley Ram said:

There owner is Dai Yongge, that must be a made up name. A rich Aldershot/Oxford/Swindon fan in disguise wanting to get rid of local rivals?

Think he used to be in a musical double act with Olivia Fast.

[Anon]

I always thought Dai Yongge was a Welsh prop forward.

[Day]

Points deductions cannot be the answer, why are the management team and players punished for something out of their control?

When the players were not paid on time, they were given another point deduction, double whammy there, much like ourselves when the points deduction relegated us. 

Playing at a lower level, potentially missing out on international call ups, wage, bonus decrease....ok the club sees a loss of revenue and that hurts the owners in the pocket, yet those that are punished the most are everyone under the ownership.

You have to issue fines to the owners, not insignificant fines that leave owners taking the risk. Withdrawing TV revenue money and other bonuses issued by the league. 

Fines that make owners know that when entering the game they cannot F around here and take the piss. 

Reading might be a terrible away day, their ground might be half empty with no atmosphere, but the staff, players, fans they don't deserve any of this. 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Points deductions cannot be the answer, why are the management team and players punished for something out of their control?

When the players were not paid on time, they were given another point deduction, double whammy there, much like ourselves when the points deduction relegated us. 

Playing at a lower level, potentially missing out on international call ups, wage, bonus decrease....ok the club sees a loss of revenue and that hurts the owners in the pocket, yet those that are punished the most are everyone under the ownership.

You have to issue fines to the owners, not insignificant fines that leave owners taking the risk. Withdrawing TV revenue money and other bonuses issued by the league. 

Fines that make owners know that when entering the game they cannot F around here and take the piss. 

Reading might be a terrible away day, their ground might be half empty with no atmosphere, but the staff, players, fans they don't deserve any of this. 

When wages aren't being paid it's typically because the owners don't have, or can't access the cash to pay them. What good is it to fine someone who hasn't got access to any cash in the first place?

I agree that points off shouldn't always be the answer, but I also don't know what alternative would have the same sort of impact.

[Day]

5 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

When wages aren't being paid it's typically because the owners don't have, or can't access the cash to pay them. What good is it to fine someone who hasn't got access to any cash in the first place?

I agree that points off shouldn't always be the answer, but I also don't know what alternative would have the same sort of impact.

I'm looking at it more as a deterrent that avoids the situation from happening completely, if it's a contractual fine that can be taken to court by the EFL to recover.

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, David said:

Points deductions cannot be the answer, why are the management team and players punished for something out of their control?

When the players were not paid on time, they were given another point deduction, double whammy there, much like ourselves when the points deduction relegated us. 

Playing at a lower level, potentially missing out on international call ups, wage, bonus decrease....ok the club sees a loss of revenue and that hurts the owners in the pocket, yet those that are punished the most are everyone under the ownership.

You have to issue fines to the owners, not insignificant fines that leave owners taking the risk. Withdrawing TV revenue money and other bonuses issued by the league. 

Fines that make owners know that when entering the game they cannot F around here and take the piss. 

Reading might be a terrible away day, their ground might be half empty with no atmosphere, but the staff, players, fans they don't deserve any of this. 

Just make it no promotion for five years ! 

[roboto]

If the employer can't fulfil their contractual obligation of paying playing staff, then the staff affected should be able to leave their contract and find another team who can pay them (even outside of the transfer window if required).

I feel this would be a deterrent for owners who might lose all their valuable assets and allows players to find employment elsewhere.

[ram59]

I see that they can't add any more players to their squad, as they're at the limit of their wage cap, so no expensive free agents when they agree to make some payment or other.

[alram]

21 hours ago, David said:

Points deductions cannot be the answer, why are the management team and players punished for something out of their control?

When the players were not paid on time, they were given another point deduction, double whammy there, much like ourselves when the points deduction relegated us. 

Playing at a lower level, potentially missing out on international call ups, wage, bonus decrease....ok the club sees a loss of revenue and that hurts the owners in the pocket, yet those that are punished the most are everyone under the ownership.

You have to issue fines to the owners, not insignificant fines that leave owners taking the risk. Withdrawing TV revenue money and other bonuses issued by the league. 

Fines that make owners know that when entering the game they cannot F around here and take the piss. 

Reading might be a terrible away day, their ground might be half empty with no atmosphere, but the staff, players, fans they don't deserve any of this. 

because management team, players and fans benefit from cheating the system

 

there is no other option than to punish clubs with points deductions

 

fines mean nothing to a billionaire owner, you would just get billionaires taking fines and having a huge advantage over everyone else. We could sign ronaldo next week and they just give our owner a £5m fine for breaking rules, how is that any better than a points deduction? most of the clubs are bankrolled by owners including us so what would be the point of that.

[Ram-Alf]

4 hours ago, roboto said:

If the employer can't fulfil their contractual obligation of paying playing staff, then the staff affected should be able to leave their contract and find another team who can pay them (even outside of the transfer window if required).

 

I found this when searching

If a professional footballer is not paid, they may be able to terminate their contract with the club. According to FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players (RSTP), a contract between a professional footballer and a club may only be terminated upon its expiration or by mutual agreement 1. However, if the club fails to fulfill its contractual obligations, such as paying wages, the player may have the right to terminate the contract with just cause 234.

It is important to note that the extent of a club’s possibility to terminate a football player’s contract would depend on which regulations prevail when there is deviation between domestic labor law and FIFA’s RSTP 2. In practice, FIFA has the right to assess disputes related to contract disputes of an international dimension, which includes all contractual disputes between clubs and foreign players 2.

In summary, if a professional footballer is not paid, they may be able to terminate their contract with the club if they have just cause. The extent of their possibility to do so would depend on which regulations prevail when there is deviation between domestic labor law and FIFA’s RSTP.

[Foreveram]

2 hours ago, The Last Post said:

I found this when searching

If a professional footballer is not paid, they may be able to terminate their contract with the club. According to FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players (RSTP), a contract between a professional footballer and a club may only be terminated upon its expiration or by mutual agreement 1. However, if the club fails to fulfill its contractual obligations, such as paying wages, the player may have the right to terminate the contract with just cause 234.

It is important to note that the extent of a club’s possibility to terminate a football player’s contract would depend on which regulations prevail when there is deviation between domestic labor law and FIFA’s RSTP 2. In practice, FIFA has the right to assess disputes related to contract disputes of an international dimension, which includes all contractual disputes between clubs and foreign players 2.

In summary, if a professional footballer is not paid, they may be able to terminate their contract with the club if they have just cause. The extent of their possibility to do so would depend on which regulations prevail when there is deviation between domestic labor law and FIFA’s RSTP.

Reading have paid the wages, they just paid it late.

[Sparkle]

8 hours ago, roboto said:

If the employer can't fulfil their contractual obligation of paying playing staff, then the staff affected should be able to leave their contract and find another team who can pay them (even outside of the transfer window if required).

I feel this would be a deterrent for owners who might lose all their valuable assets and allows players to find employment elsewhere.

Which is exactly what happened at Wigan in the summer when 3-4 of their contracted players gave their notice and left 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

9 hours ago, roboto said:

If the employer can't fulfil their contractual obligation of paying playing staff, then the staff affected should be able to leave their contract and find another team who can pay them (even outside of the transfer window if required).

I feel this would be a deterrent for owners who might lose all their valuable assets and allows players to find employment elsewhere.

Don’t disagree in principle, but would probably increase the amount of clubs liquidated due to not being able to complete fixtures.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Apparently the wages at Reading only got paid last month thanks to a £400k EFL payment for their CAT1 academy, which wasn't enough alone, the rest being made up with a loan from their shirt sponsor Select Car Leasing.

They are bang in trouble. Makes me livid that they were allowed to sign loads of players.