Points Deduction, Who's Next And When Will It Stop?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

14 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Soon to be followed by a secondary protest group because some fans don’t agree with the aims of the first protest group. Then the first group vote out the spokesperson for their group because they disagree with something they’ve said, which then sparks a third group to appear who are once again unclear in their aims.

 

[BramcoteRam84]

This is Mel Mk2. Gambled for the prem out millions in, failed left with big wages for years similarly chopped and changed managers. Only difference is Mel didn’t ask the fans to put money in he just put us into administration.

They need a credible buyer and quick or they will follow the same path as us. 
 

It also brings into focus the importance of being patient and doing things on a budget. We need a long term sustainable plan for success, problem is people are struggling to see the long term plan with this manager right now 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

I’ll say this here as don’t think it’ll go over well on the main parts of the forum at the minute (and tbh I can’t be bothered with ‘debates’ atm. But there’s something to be said about the club being patient and seeing what the lay of the land will be in the next few seasons. That’s not to say ‘don’t get in the champ’ but I do think we are at the very start of a huge rebuild and our fans do need to realise where we are and it’s going to take time.

Except it cost Clowes company money last season. So I imagine it's the same this. Next season there will most probably less fan income and less broadcasting money. You have to speculate to accumulate. Clowes will want into the Championship asap. The more time it takes the more money it will cost Clowes Developments (are we tax-deductible?).

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

19 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

This is Mel Mk2. Gambled for the prem out millions in, failed left with big wages for years similarly chopped and changed managers. Only difference is Mel didn’t ask the fans to put money in he just put us into administration.

They need a credible buyer and quick or they will follow the same path as us. 
 

It also brings into focus the importance of being patient and doing things on a budget. We need a long term sustainable plan for success, problem is people are struggling to see the long term plan with this manager right now 

How many people are out there trying to buy football clubs? There are probably more clubs than we realise that are open to offers or actively looking for buyers and there are only so many people willing to do it.

We got lucky with Clowes, will Reading, Sheffield Wednesday and whoever else is on the market privately be so lucky?

Edited October 31, 2023 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[Day]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Except it cost Clowes company money last season. So I imagine it's the same this. Next season there will most probably less fan income and less broadcasting money. You have to speculate to accumulate. Clowes will want into the Championship asap. The more time it takes the more money it will cost Clowes Developments (are we tax-deductible?).

Whilst League 1 revenue is lower, costs are also lower.

Clowes would be losing a lot more money as a mid table and above Championship team.

Probably why recent reports suggesting Warne has his full backing, he's more patient than us to go up.

Not suggesting we stay here, make ourselves comfortable, I hate this league. Just the reality of the current state of football and why it needs to change.

Looking at Ipswich, that has to be the dream scenario, up up and see ya later.

Frustrating thing is, Covid game football it's chance to reset itself, then you have Chelsea go out spending half a billion, Saudi getting involved and the knock on effect has kiboshed any chance of sensible spending.

I feel for the Wednesday fans, they have been through a rough time and hope their club can get through and see better days.

[Day]

 

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, David said:

Whilst League 1 revenue is lower, costs are also lower.

Clowes would be losing a lot more money as a mid table and above Championship team.

Probably why recent reports suggesting Warne has his full backing, he's more patient than us to go up.

Not suggesting we stay here, make ourselves comfortable, I hate this league. Just the reality of the current state of football and why it needs to change.

Looking at Ipswich, that has to be the dream scenario, up up and see ya later.

Frustrating thing is, Covid game football it's chance to reset itself, then you have Chelsea go out spending half a billion, Saudi getting involved and the knock on effect has kiboshed any chance of sensible spending.

I feel for the Wednesday fans, they have been through a rough time and hope their club can get through and see better days.

Realistically though it's unlikely our 'reluctant' owner can sell at a good price until we are at least a Championship team. So currently costs may be less but we are still losing money, next season if we are still in league 1 we'll lose more than this.

Plus wasn't there a '5(?) year Plan' to be an established Championship club? Time's a ticking.

Edited October 31, 2023 by RoyMac5

[May Contain Nuts]

40 minutes ago, David said:

Whilst League 1 revenue is lower, costs are also lower.

Which ones? (Player wages is obviously the main one, but what else?)

Even with the wages, what are the proportions? How much lower are they compared to how much less revenue there is?

Edited October 31, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[RadioactiveWaste]

56 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Which ones? (Player wages is obviously the main one, but what else?)

Even with the wages, what are the proportions? How much lower are they compared to how much less revenue there is?

It's hard to know for sure, and it's hard to determine how much of the lower costs in league 1 are on the basis of clubs in general being smaller operations in league 1.

Costs related to the ground will be the same, costs related to the crowd would be dependent on attendance, you'd assume marketing spending is less and support staff, but after player wages so much depends on the club and how the club is run.

[Day]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

Which ones? (Player wages is obviously the main one, but what else?)

Even with the wages, what are the proportions? How much lower are they compared to how much less revenue there is?

Wages. That's the key one. With a salary cap in place, losses are kept in check. 

Here is revenue to wages over the last 2 seasons.

 

[Day]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Realistically though it's unlikely our 'reluctant' owner can sell at a good price until we are at least a Championship team. So currently costs may be less but we are still losing money, next season if we are still in league 1 we'll lose more than this.

Plus wasn't there a '5(?) year Plan' to be an established Championship club? Time's a ticking.

Yet to even hear Clowes talk about selling the club, so not sure why that is coming up.

But yeah, I mean obviously the higher the club, the easier it is to sell when any owner wants to sell.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 hours ago, angieram said:

 

While those points are all relevant, it definitely is the owner. What he's done is absolutely shameful.

[angieram]

10 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

While those points are all relevant, it definitely is the owner. What he's done is absolutely shameful.

Yes, but can't you see that it's the system that leads to this sort of ownership. Derby, Reading, Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday - it doesn't really matter which club, the game of football is not sustainable for the majority of clubs in its current form.

We have had a recent administration and a new owner in place for fifteen months and some are already calling for him to spend money the club hasn't got, chasing success. Or sell.

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, David said:

Whilst League 1 revenue is lower, costs are also lower.

Not completely true, particularly for clubs like us that have large policing costs and large stadium costs

[BaaLocks]

5 minutes ago, angieram said:

Yes, but can't you see that it's the system that leads to this sort of ownership. Derby, Reading, Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday - it doesn't really matter which club, the game of football is not sustainable for the majority of clubs in its current form.

We have had a recent administration and a new owner in place for fifteen months and some are already calling for him to spend money the club hasn't got, chasing success. Or sell.

It's a difficult one - I am not asking him to spend money, I totally get the point that we can't just jump straight back where we were. But I also think I can recognise that our manager is not able to get the best from him players, does not have the tactical nouse to win games he should be winning and does not have the credibility (including now among larger sections of the fanbase) to be leading a club like Derby County. Ipswich showed last season, as did Plymouth, you don't need bottomless pockets to get out of this league and if it true that we will be moving a lot of our better players on (either to sell for likes of Cashin or just because their contracts are up) in January I personally don't trust Warne to get it right when rebuilding the side he has, because he didn't get it right last time and isn't getting it right today.

But not one word of what I have said above dilutes my appreciation for Clowes or my complete understanding that 'throw money at it' ownership is a one way ticket to eventual heartache.

And yes, btw, it is the system - you are right. There are only two models in football today, either balance the books and settle for (in our case) something aspiring to mid-table Championship or find an egotistical millionaire to bankroll a few years of chaos and maybe a few days in the sun. It didn't work for us but if Morris had got us up, and maybe we'd hung on there like Palace, Fulham or Brentford, nobody would be complaining today.

[Day]

3 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Not completely true, particularly for clubs like us that have large policing costs and large stadium costs

I would imagine with lower wages we'll still be losing less.

Go up, and any decent Championship player now wants 20k a week minimum, then the rest of the dressing room knocks at the door.

It's massively frustrating Covid didn't reset everything for the future of many football clubs.

[Walkley Ram]

7 hours ago, David said:

Yet to even hear Clowes talk about selling the club, so not sure why that is coming up.

But yeah, I mean obviously the higher the club, the easier it is to sell when any owner wants to sell.

Ipswich were pretty much as we are now when they were taken over by the Americans.

I'd argue we're a much easier sell now, being a club ran by someone who is half sane, than when we were challenging in the championship. We've no debt (depends on what Clowes coverts to debt owed to him, but compared to Mel), no dodgy outside investors to placate, no dodgy ground ownership, no points deduction hanging over us, and we'd be a much lower price.

If anyone was wanting to take us over, I'd argue now would be the time. Not that I want it to happen.

Edited October 31, 2023 by oodledoodle

[WystonRam]

It wouldn’t matter if Elon Musk bought us, we are operating to a still tight and agreed budget with the EFL and our spending ability is still quite limited.

[Day]

10 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Ipswich were pretty much as we are now when they were taken over by the Americans.

I'd argue we're a much easier sell now, being a club ran by someone who is half sane, than when we were challenging in the championship. We've no debt (depends on what Clowes coverts to debt owed to him, but compared to Mel), no dodgy outside investors to placate, no dodgy ground ownership, no points deduction hanging over us, and we'd be a much lower price.

If anyone was wanting to take us over, I'd argue now would be the time. Not that I want it to happen.

No guarantee new owner(s) would get us to where Ipswich are or where Scunthorpe are.

We just have to believe.

Ipswich struck gold with Kieran McKenna, be it luck or great judgement the credit must lay with him. No previous senior team management on his CV either. 

[beardyjim]

Well I am shocked...

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1039851/1/controversial-exf1-team-sponsor-pulls-out-race-buy-reading-fc