Points Deduction, Who's Next And When Will It Stop?

[Gritstone Ram]

3 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Apparently the wages at Reading only got paid last month thanks to a £400k EFL payment for their CAT1 academy, which wasn't enough alone, the rest being made up with a loan from their shirt sponsor Select Car Leasing.

They are bang in trouble. Makes me livid that they were allowed to sign loads of players.

The first thing that comes to mind is respect for the rules and the people in control of the league. We were guilty of this trying to navigate the rules and got punished then the floodgates opened and it all went tits up. 

[Gritstone Ram]

Are Reading defaulting on some payments again?

[ram59]

I see Reading are at it again, they've missed yet another deadline, this time it's the HMRC again. They really are a basket case, I suspect that their players won't be getting paid at the end of the month, either.

The question must be, "what are the EFL going to do about it?"

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

19 minutes ago, ram59 said:

I see Reading are at it again, they've missed yet another deadline, this time it's the HMRC again. They really are a basket case, I suspect that their players won't be getting paid at the end of the month, either.

The question must be, "what are the EFL going to do about it?"

Is it a -3 deduction every time they fail to pay players at this point? -27 still up for grabs in that case.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

I see Reading are at it again, they've missed yet another deadline, this time it's the HMRC again. They really are a basket case, I suspect that their players won't be getting paid at the end of the month, either.

The question must be, "what are the EFL going to do about it?"

Bring in 4 players on loan and a new management team under a restriction they now admit they knew would make Readings budgetary promises unworkable. 

Oh, they don't need to relegate us this time.  A warning and a 3 point deduction it is then.

[angieram]

Under embargo not in a transfer window. 

Wow, that's going to serve them right! 

[ram59]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Under embargo not in a transfer window. 

Wow, that's going to serve them right! 

3 or4 parties interested in buying this basket case of a club from a basket case of an owner, this after Birmingham being bought out under similar circumstances. How on earth didn't we find a proper buyer before administration, surely we were a better business proposition than either of these clubs?

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, ram59 said:

3 or4 parties interested in buying this basket case of a club from a basket case of an owner, this after Birmingham being bought out under similar circumstances. How on earth didn't we find a proper buyer before administration, surely we were a better business proposition than either of these clubs?

I bet the stadium sale/setup and the way the loans were financed made a big difference?

[richinspain]

23 minutes ago, ram59 said:

3 or4 parties interested in buying this basket case of a club from a basket case of an owner, this after Birmingham being bought out under similar circumstances. How on earth didn't we find a proper buyer before administration, surely we were a better business proposition than either of these clubs?

We had huge debts, including HMRC, we weren't paying our players (yes, we all know the reason why, but we did miss payments), we had two "clubs" threatening to sue us for millions of pounds and an EFL that were too s*** scared to stand up to them, plus the threat (and eventual happening) of points deductions for accounting misdemeanours. I don't think I'd have thrown my money at it in a hurry. Thank God David Clowes did.

[Foreveram]

28 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I bet the stadium sale/setup and the way the loans were financed made a big difference?

The Stadium is owned by the Reading owner who then rents it to the club.

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Under embargo not in a transfer window. 

Wow, that's going to serve them right! 

Indeed. Isn't everybody under a transfer embargo?

[RoyMac5]

54 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

The Stadium is owned by the Reading owner who then rents it to the club.

In our case. The op was talking about the difference in treatment.

[ram59]

15 hours ago, richinspain said:

We had huge debts, including HMRC, we weren't paying our players (yes, we all know the reason why, but we did miss payments), we had two "clubs" threatening to sue us for millions of pounds and an EFL that were too s*** scared to stand up to them, plus the threat (and eventual happening) of points deductions for accounting misdemeanours. I don't think I'd have thrown my money at it in a hurry. Thank God David Clowes did.

Both of these clubs have got huge debts, most of our debts were to MM. We missed one payment to the players because of a broken contract with a new owner, unlike Reading with multiple offences with the current owner. The 2 clubs would have got nowhere, if it had gone to court,(Boro tried it on with Villa also and were told to F off.) They only got money from us/MM because we were in administration. Without the 12 point deduction, we would be still a championship team. Neither of these clubs are likely to match our income on a like for like basis and St Andrews is in desperate need of millions being spent on it.

Although DC gained from losing 75% of some of the debts because of administration, I believe that buying Derby County in the championship with the players and especially the young players under contract and not having to have transfer embargoes and business plans, would have made more financial sense.

I concur, thank god David Clowes did, but I wonder that if he could turn the clock back, would he have bought the club before administration, even if it would have cost a bit more?

[richinspain]

39 minutes ago, ram59 said:

Both of these clubs have got huge debts, most of our debts were to MM. We missed one payment to the players because of a broken contract with a new owner, unlike Reading with multiple offences with the current owner. The 2 clubs would have got nowhere, if it had gone to court,(Boro tried it on with Villa also and were told to F off.) They only got money from us/MM because we were in administration. Without the 12 point deduction, we would be still a championship team. Neither of these clubs are likely to match our income on a like for like basis and St Andrews is in desperate need of millions being spent on it.

Although DC gained from losing 75% of some of the debts because of administration, I believe that buying Derby County in the championship with the players and especially the young players under contract and not having to have transfer embargoes and business plans, would have made more financial sense.

I concur, thank god David Clowes did, but I wonder that if he could turn the clock back, would he have bought the club before administration, even if it would have cost a bit more?

I agree with all of your points, but the fact still remains that we were also a basket case. As for buying whilst still in the Championship, I'm sure it would have made more sense financially but maybe the price would have been out of his range.

[ram59]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

I agree with all of your points, but the fact still remains that we were also a basket case. As for buying whilst still in the Championship, I'm sure it would have made more sense financially but maybe the price would have been out of his range.

I agree that we were a basket case, but I'm upset that we had to go into administration and lose all our young players whereas the likes of Birmingham and Reading are likely to avoid that devastation. I know that I'm biased, but where were these new owners when we needed them as we should be a better prospect. We or should I say MM just attracted time wasters.

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, ram59 said:

I agree that we were a basket case, but I'm upset that we had to go into administration and lose all our young players whereas the likes of Birmingham and Reading are likely to avoid that devastation. I know that I'm biased, but where were these new owners when we needed them as we should be a better prospect. We or should I say MM just attracted time wasters.

At a cost of £52 million, under administration and with only 6 senior players contracted, I suspect we were a tougher sell than you may think.

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 hours ago, ram59 said:

I concur, thank god David Clowes did, but I wonder that if he could turn the clock back, would he have bought the club before administration, even if it would have cost a bit more?

I honestly think, no, until he did, he didn't want to own Derby County, he was a fan, it was his outlet now it's his burden of responsibility. In a world full of club owners who have done it as an ego trip I don't get the vibe thet he would've if there was sonmeone ese who was going to take it on. Without the despiration of the circumstances I don't think he'd ever have bought DCFC.

I do however totally get your point, the club in the championship without the decimation of the squad and the academy could have been a better investment, but those debts were a lot and the unknown risk of the EFL "issues" and Steve Gibson "issues" - can see why no one would buy without those being resolved.

without getting the ground as part of it, I can see why no one serious took it on, especially with Mel's "antics" causing some serious risk to the invesntment.

 

[ram59]

17 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

At a cost of £52 million, under administration and with only 6 senior players contracted, I suspect we were a tougher sell than you may think.

You're missing my point there, I was comparing Derby pre administration with Birmingham and Reading, as a championship club with a strong squad and a a very good crop of youngsters on the books. Admittedly we did have possible points sanctions and other teams claims hanging over us, but those clubs wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if it had gone to court, likewise the amortisation 9 point penalty for something that wasn't illegal at the time wouldn't have been upheld, although our accounts are likely to have attracted penalties elsewhere.

But we have a fine stadium and training facilities that unlike Birmingham doesn't need millions throwing at it and we have a much better income model compared to Reading with our fan base. Let's face Reading only really works if they're in the premier league, their gates are less than half of Derby's. Birmingham possibly have a larger overall fanbase, but they've never managed to get them to turn up unless it's for a game at Wembley.

I agree that we were a tough sell before administration, but I believe that we were a tougher sell when DC saved us.

[Comrade 86]

59 minutes ago, ram59 said:

You're missing my point there, I was comparing Derby pre administration with Birmingham and Reading, as a championship club with a strong squad and a a very good crop of youngsters on the books. Admittedly we did have possible points sanctions and other teams claims hanging over us, but those clubs wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if it had gone to court, likewise the amortisation 9 point penalty for something that wasn't illegal at the time wouldn't have been upheld, although our accounts are likely to have attracted penalties elsewhere.

But we have a fine stadium and training facilities that unlike Birmingham doesn't need millions throwing at it and we have a much better income model compared to Reading with our fan base. Let's face Reading only really works if they're in the premier league, their gates are less than half of Derby's. Birmingham possibly have a larger overall fanbase, but they've never managed to get them to turn up unless it's for a game at Wembley.

I agree that we were a tough sell before administration, but I believe that we were a tougher sell when DC saved us.

I think we more on the same page, than not here.

[Kernow]

Not a points deduction (yet), but the situation appears to be getting even more bleak for Reading.