Fleetwood Home Sat 18th March 3.00pm

[Rampant]

Excellent post @jono

[IlsonDerby]

10 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Didn’t Sibley hit the post and McGoldrick have a winning goal marginally and contentiously ruled out for offside v Lincoln?

Didn’t Dobbin force the keeper into a last gasp save v Shrewsbury? Didn’t we squander chances in the first half to go 3-0 up and put the game out of sight?

On another day, we win both games. I stand by what I said. We’re having a wobble but today is the only really alarming result and performance in this current run.

 

Whilst not wanting to over react the results have papered over a lack of style/pattern of play/tactical vision. 
 

I watch how Plymouth and Barnsley played, how Ipswich played. It was so so clear what their managers are trying to do there. The players know what to do with the ball. There are patterns to the play and they’ve shown you can play good progressive football and be successful in this division. 
 

I don’t mind Warne but it feels to me like when it’s a really good passage of play with movement and one touch passing it’s in spite of him and his coaching staff who just want the channels ran for 90 minutes, direct football and winning second balls. 
 

 

[IlsonDerby]

I just worry that Warne and Rotherham are like Nathan Jones and Luton. 
 

A gaffer that performs brilliant results with an unfancied side that punches above its weight. 

[G STAR RAM]

My random thoughts on yesterday:-

Worst home performance since Scunthorpe in the Nigel Clough years for me.

Starting team selection was wrong.

The substitutions 2 minutes before half time humiliating for the players taken off.

Davies cannot be starting matches anymore.

Cashin is having a really rough patch and its culminating in us conceding 2 or more goals on a regular basis now.

Bird didn't look back up to speed.

First 4 substitutions didnt have much impact.

Dobbin looked like he might make something happen.

The difference between our target man and their target man was night and day.

[DavesaRam]

9 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

Like i said, maybe i'm to soft and think if it was someone in my family on the pitch getting booed i would feel awful, but each to their own at the end of the day.

I understand where you are coming from, but if someone on my family performed that badly, especially for the unpteenth time then they deserve to be informed. The alternative is to applaud them no matter what, which simply tells them that they can get away with playing however they like.

But here’s a curved ball: what if it isn’t the players at fault? What if it is Warne’s tactics? Or, should I say, “tactic”?

This poor run of form has coincided with an increasing shift to lumping long balls into the channels with the aim of someone getting on the end of the alleged subsequent cross - the very sort of football we feared when the new manager was announced. And it does seem to be the only thing in his toolbox.

I know we got excited at some of the football we have been playing, but it seems as though that is because it has taken Warne this long to hammer it out of us.

[ramboy63]

I think we all feel yesterday was a complete shambles possibly the worst performance at home for years

I lay most of this at Warnes door you have to play your strongest team in every game were you can, there are no easy rides in this division and Fleetwood thoroughly deserved there win.

The next two games now are massive and play like that again and we will get beat in both of them which will probably see us outside the play off places.

Having said that 5 or 6 weeks ago i fancied our chances against any of the play off teams we are likely to face now i think they will be looking at us and think we would be easy pickings.

 

 

[DavesaRam]

10 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Surprise surprise?

Just before Wycombe away we had won six in a row and were 15 unbeaten.

Just before Wycombe away, the same XI had beaten Morecambe 5-0.

But OK, clearly you know better than the manager.

I think you are being very harsh on Warne and the players.

We beat Morecambe by (a) playing football and (b) by the Morecambe players being on the bus home after our first goal. Losing to Wycombe wasn’t the players, it was the tactics. Instead of playing football, which we gave been good at, we tried to be Wycombe, and we aren’t nasty, conniving or cheating enough. And sadly we have continued with the “run a lot snd kick it hard” philosophy.

For goodness sake get the ball on rhe floor and play football with it.

Edited March 19, 2023 by DavesaRam

[derbydaz22]

7 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

We usually agree. I would be sympathetic to this argument if we weren't going backward and badly. I've never been convinced about warne and this stretch of form is confirming my worst suspicions. It's a hack job going bad at a bigger club that he can't micromanage. I really fear where this is heading tbh and under rosenior a completely untested manager we were in  the hunt for the playoffs with a better account vs the top half 

Come on we were a soft touch under Rosenior away from home and it didn’t look like that was going to change.

[chadlad]

4 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

We beat Morecambe by (a) playing football and (b) by the Morecambe players being on the bus home after our first goal. Losing to Wycombe wasn’t the players, it was the tactics. Instead of playing football, which we gave been good at, we tried to be Wycombe, and we aren’t nasty, conniving or cheating enough. And sadly we have continued with the “run a lot snd kick it hard” philosophy.

For goodness sake get the ball on the floor and play football with it.

I could not agree more Davey boy. For me the most concerning aspect of recent games has been the hit and hope style of football. It’s not very easy on the eye and is probably the reason that we have struggled against the better teams in this league.

 

[Ram-Alf]

8 hours ago, jono said:

I usually sulk for a day or two after losing, not being able to find positives when it’s just all gone wrong as it did today, I kind of find a quiet corner to lick wounds. 
 

Oddly I don’t feel so bad. You get games like this. No manager or team is perfect and .. there are 11 players on the opposing side that have every right to stand up for themselves 

 

 

I was more annoyed with the Shrewsbury game than yesterdays game, We managed to rescue a point from the jaws of victory, Yesterdays 1st half was as bad as it gets(cue Jack Nicholson)I wasn't fussed in the slightest, All players were off their game, Made it a contest in the 2nd half...but to late damage was done.

PWs after match interview was interesting...that is what shell shock looks like, Not having a good training day the day before...hhmmm, Taking Sibley and Hourihane off 2 mins before HT and saying it wasn't to embarrass the players, Games like this happen, Liverpool 7 United 0 when united were on a role.

Collins said the Peterboro game is where they have to bounce back, Lets see what character our players have aye, And we'll see if PW and his coaches can return to pre Manager of the month award     

[BramcoteRam84]

7 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

You think this was so different to the 4-1 defeat at Barnsley or the 2-2 draw against Shrewsbury in the end. it is a performance closer to where we are heading than where we would like to be.

Yes. Fundamentally different to Shrewsbury and even Barnsley though we were shocking there and there were similarities. 
 

Shrewsbury we were excellent, in complete control before an individual error led to a free kick and us conceding from nothing, we then had about 15 mins of madness they got a penalty which never was in a million years, 2-2 and we had chances to win it at the death. Shrewsbury was a proper head scratcher, and we played football through the midfield.

Barnsley I could tell in first minute we weren’t at it and we gave away very poor goals through individual, however we also had a go and could’ve scored 4 ourselves. 
 

Plymouth we were the wrong side of an even game, but the Oxford we rode our luck a bit.

All teams have dips. I think you need to separate home and away form. We have struggled against the top half away the stats prove this. But at home we’ve been dominant especially against the bottom half teams.

That was an aberration yesterday, a one off, it was that bad and it was caused by players not doing the basics, whatever tactics you deploy and whatever team selected a team goes out and plays like that you’re going to get nothing. It was so bad i was barracking the team, getting on their case and booing!!! I never do that!! Not done it for years!!
 

Warne isn’t telling them to play like that, far from it. therefore IMO can’t be linked to a downturn in performance since Cheltenham and warnes tactics being found out. 

That being said you can’t not be concerned about it. I didn’t think we were capable of that and as someone who has been supremely confident of playoffs, I now have my doubts, I certainly have my doubts about promotion but my gut feeling all along is this was going to take 2 seasons. But if we can get over the line into the playoffs we definitely have the team that can win it.

[Sparkle]

One blindingly obvious thing from yesterday is that we only have one forward who has the control of the football - McGoldrick 

Collins runs to block a clearance near a corner flag which is lovely if you are 4-0 in front, it’s not his fault. 
we need forwards who can control a football and yes pass it to a teammate - the likes of Chris Martin got his usual consideration when he became available but was dismissed because he can’t run around much, I prefer someone who can do something with the football. We are in league one our centre forward needs to be strong in the right areas. Whilst the others can fit in around that.

[Ram-Alf]

4 hours ago, Minneapolis American ITFC said:

Our next game is against you but got to wait two weeks because of international soccer before it.  Damn nuisance as we're really hitting targets now and don't need no break under such momentum.     I'm kind of perplexed by County's erratic form in the last few weeks. Obviously we'll be looking to take you out such is our position on the verge of an automatic promotion.      Your team appears to be struggling, it's a shame we got you next up as our own team is looking real promising right now.     It would be churlish to predict a Town victory in front of your own fans but I got so much confidence in our abilities right now.     The league status doesn't lie but other than Sheffield I feel we probably are the best team this division can offer right now.    

I understand defeat in this league, it's no fun being beaten like today particularly a recognized name more established than most others but you got to ask yourself how much do you really want it.     Our success comes from a reliable array of attackers, a goalkeeper that has been arguably one of the league's finest and a manager who knows what he wants and how to get it.    Add to that a certain momentum and belief that a number of other squads seem to lack.     I think the international interim will suit County better, had you played us at the regular schedule I'd be real confident of taking a result from it.       

And this is why American managers struggle in the English game ?

Edited March 19, 2023 by The Last Post

[BramcoteRam84]

14 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

Would love to know what good booing your home team does, nothing in my opinion, the players just drop their heads even more. If not happy walk out.

Sorry just seen this. It does no good at all I agree. Some situations (very few) however it is called for. Yesterday was most definitely one of those. 

I hardly ever boo, probably 12-13 years since I last did it at Pride Park (2-0 defeat to Leicester on a freezing night when Nigel Clough was in charge, right in the middle of that stinking run where we dropped from 3rd and nearly went down). The most recent time was very early under Rowett in the Pearson/McC/Rowett season when we got smashed 4-0 by Brentford. I’ve had arguments with other fans over booing when it’s been uncalled for.

I can cope with losing to a better side, I can cope if they run their hearts out win tackles but ultimately succumb to lack of quality, but putting a shift in and having a go at the opposition are two absolute fundamentals to play for Derby County (or any club), that first half fell so far short of the basic standards we expect and the fans had a right to let the players know about it. 

So agree we shouldn’t boo as a rule but there are exceptions when players fall well short of the basic standards we expect. 

 

[HorsforthRam]

Most fans can tell exactly where we are going to pass  the ball before the hoof. If we can, the opposition certainly can and can equip themselves to deal with it. They deal with it oh so simply. Press the full backs and and make the game physical when we have got it. We have no answer. The games we look good in, the opposition haven’t done that. Compare the two halves against Plymouth.. 

Warne keeps saying we need to turn teams quickly and get crosses in as fast as possible. When the opposition is on us, that is hoofballl and passes to nobody and the ball constantly coming back. It’s depressing watching, especially when the opposition still manage to string 5/6 passes together in a controlled manner after their press. Our midfield is never going to win head tennis and second balls, especially if they are outnumbered from the start. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by HorsforthRam

[Rich84]

The amount of comments I've seen that say Sibley taken off before half time with Hourihane does make me wonder how much people pay attention,  he was incorrectly subbed at ht instead of Collins imo.

It was Springett that was off with Hourihane on 42, should have made changes after 20 though, and Davies should have been 1 of them off ASAP, we had Hourihane,  Bird and Sibley in the midfield and the defence barely looked to play a pass to them throughout, along woth the lack of energy from most, that was the single biggest factor for such an abject 1st half

[HorsforthRam]

Some posters have said we need a “cruncher” in midfield. Someone that will take the game by the scruff of the neck. I’m not so sure. The ones that have stuck out to me are the few who take the ball on the half turn (control it!!) and move forwards. Can’t say I’ve noticed anyone that has been an “enforcer”. They just come across as yellow card bordering on red type of players 

[Kathcairns]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

I understand where you are coming from, but if someone on my family performed that badly, especially for the unpteenth time then they deserve to be informed. The alternative is to applaud them no matter what, which simply tells them that they can get away with playing however they like.

But here’s a curved ball: what if it isn’t the players at fault? What if it is Warne’s tactics? Or, should I say, “tactic”?

This poor run of form has coincided with an increasing shift to lumping long balls into the channels with the aim of someone getting on the end of the alleged subsequent cross - the very sort of football we feared when the new manager was announced. And it does seem to be the only thing in his toolbox.

I know we got excited at some of the football we have been playing, but it seems as though that is because it has taken Warne this long to hammer it out of us.

If played like yesterday i dont boo but i dont applaud either, i just leave at the end of the match. Regards your second half of the post i agree entirely.

[DiggerB]

2 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

If played like yesterday i dont boo but i dont applaud either, i just leave at the end of the match. Regards your second half of the post i agree entirely.

Same here. Booing’s all a bit panto villain but I couldn’t applaud that yesterday.

[sage]

We have 2 problems

 

The size and age of the squad 

Balancing the selection of good players who are tired and poor players who aren't. 

 

Everything else is candy floss

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by sage