Fleetwood Home Sat 18th March 3.00pm

[Andicis]

3 hours ago, Lokidoki said:

I have not commented on  this forum in years as I have not really had the need but recently I have started to have serious concerns about certain aspects of Warne’s management that he needs to work on , let alone the players.

Firstly it has been quite obvious that Curtis’ legs have gone. Much as I love the guy it was sad to see him look totally lost,  I know that PW said they had a bad day at the training office but it must be obvious that CD is struggling. it must be so easy to see in training, so why play him?
Tactically it could have been altered within the first 15 by bringing Roberts on. Fossie also looks slow on the left and it then exposed Cashin, who then started to wobble as he was not sure who was around him. A good manager doesn’t soldier on, he affects changes. Too much dwelling and no incisiveness. If I and those all around me can see the issue, then why can’t the paid professionals?
Because he didn’t make immediate changes the result was destabilising team morale by changing two players two minutes before half time, that were symptoms of the issue but not the cause.

My major concern is that we underestimate the opposition, as most of the lesser teams are physically aggressive, crunch up the mid-field and do a press on the back four, although the press was not massively evident yesterday. We are predictable and easy to play, opponents stop our game and then we fall into midfield head tennis and channel balls invariably going nowhere. We need to learn how to counter this if we are to progress but i do not see much evidence of this on the field. PW must work on this, along with the development of further strategic planning in the event that a team does A, then changes to plan B and so on; which has been evident from the opposition in many recent games. 

One thing that is clearly evident from this league, is that there is a good set of opposition coaches that use quite a lot of guile and gamesmanship to get results. Just running faster is not the answer, we need to be developing other dimensions to our play and taking note of what to expect.

 

 

I suppose the main reply to this is that if anyone understands League 1 opponents, managers and tactics, it's Paul Warne. Significantly more than us. I don't believe for one second he is naive about how to approach these games, and certainly not that he believes all that is required is running faster. 

[Mr Tibbs]

4 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

On the second goal, it’s worth watching Fozzie’s Olympian sprint from the half way line (after which his missed tackle as he tried to avoid conceding a penalty was unfortunate rather than negligent). Compare it to Hourihane’s effort - The flying Fozzie arrives and Hourihane stops running, despite then still being in the action.  He’s becoming an expensive midfielder Hourihane, in terms of our goals conceded. Warne should have considered a few games ago what the team looks like without him imo 

Good spot, one that's crystal clear from the highlights and PW and the coaching team would have had a perfect view of it. 

I think the people complaining about Warne's timing of the subs need to have a look at this clip. I've seen people call the subs embarrassing and disrespectful in here - I'd argue Hourihane's effort is both of those. I can take poor passing and rubbish corners all game but giving up is unacceptable. He could have stopped that goal. 

The only thing PW got wrong was not dragging him straight away.

[May Contain Nuts]

We can stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that Warne 's management approach, team selection, choice of subsitutions & squad management throughout the season has got absolutely no bearing on how poor some recent performances have been.

We can attempt to create division by trying to making out that anyone who questions any of the above is a 'Warne basher' who doesn't understand the limitations of the squad and is putting the blame for any of our "failings" exclusively at his door.

Or we can be a bit more grown up about it and have a sensible discussion about where he's going right and where he's going wrong, without resorting to back the 'woe is us, we're just lucky to have a club' mentality where any sort of critical thinking is looked down upon.

Nah, it'll never catch on.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

We can stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that Warne 's management approach, team selection, choice of subsitutions & squad management throughout the season has got absolutely no bearing on how poor some recent performances have been.

We can attempt to create division by trying to making out that anyone who questions any of the above is a 'Warne basher' who doesn't understand the limitations of the squad and is putting the blame for any of our "failings" exclusively at his door.

Or we can be a bit more grown up about it and have a sensible discussion about where he's going right and where he's going wrong, without resorting to back the 'woe is us, we're just lucky to have a club' mentality where any sort of critical thinking is looked down upon.

Nah, it'll never catch on.

Well done, you have effortlessly taken down your own strawman. Masterfully done! 

Nobody is saying that Warne's management has no implication on things. Nobody. Everything should however be considered given the full context of the situation and that we have a limited squad depth/quality. To not do so implies that you aren't approaching a discussion in good faith as I suspect might be the case here. 

[CBRammette]

Still stunned

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

I'm struggling as to why Hourihane is getting pelters for their goal when one player was covered in a 3 yard radius by two central defenders and a goalie.

As a midfielder you assume they'll do their job as their coming across and standing directly in front..  The other option is too tackle from behind.  Forsyth ran straight past him and Davies fell over.

[Ram-Alf]

10 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I'm struggling as to why Hourihane is getting pelters for their goal when one player was covered in a 3 yard radius by two central defenders and a goalie.

As a midfielder you assume they'll do their job as their coming across and standing directly in front..  The other option is too tackle from behind.  Forsyth ran straight past him and Davies fell over.

Yep, From the highlights Hourihane chased back...saw Forsyth running in from the left in the area Hourihane then eases off the gas, Side step by theirs and a lumbering challenge from Davies.

Think I've got that right.

https://www.skysports.com/football/derby-county-vs-fleetwood-town/report/469365

[Bris Vegas]

I said a while ago that we wouldn't get promoted under Paul Warne with our current set of players. It just doesn't seem like a real match and I think we have more players suited to the Rosenior controlling/possession style.

But we are where we are.

Playoffs are still in our hands and we should be extremely disappointed if we don't finish in the top six.

I don't hold much hope in them though. Aside from Bolton, we have really struggled to beat any top side in this league.

I mentioned in another thread, but Warne has been in charge for over 20 games now, and with him in charge, we have only managed to win two games (Bolton and Charlton at home) against any team currently in the top 14.

Our best away win of the season is against Port Vale who are 16th.

These aren't good stats at all. We are the very definition of flat track bullies in this league. It may be enough to get us top six with the likes of Burton, MK Dons and Forest Green still to play. But beyond that I don't hold much hope.

 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

We can stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that Warne 's management approach, team selection, choice of subsitutions & squad management throughout the season has got absolutely no bearing on how poor some recent performances have been.

We can attempt to create division by trying to making out that anyone who questions any of the above is a 'Warne basher' who doesn't understand the limitations of the squad and is putting the blame for any of our "failings" exclusively at his door.

Or we can be a bit more grown up about it and have a sensible discussion about where he's going right and where he's going wrong, without resorting to back the 'woe is us, we're just lucky to have a club' mentality where any sort of critical thinking is looked down upon.

Nah, it'll never catch on.

But the team has basically been the same, apart from after losing Bird. I wouldn’t have played Curtis in yesterday’s game and would have played Roberts at left back, but on the whole the team has been similar to the one that I would have picked. There wasn’t a lot of discontent during the 16 game unbeaten run about team selection.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I said a while ago that we wouldn't get promoted under Paul Warne with our current set of players. It just doesn't seem like a real match and I think we have more players suited to the Rosenior controlling/possession style.

But we are where we are.

Playoffs are still in our hands and we should be extremely disappointed if we don't finish in the top six.

I don't hold much hope in them though. Aside from Bolton, we have really struggled to beat any top side in this league.

I mentioned in another thread, but Warne has been in charge for over 20 games now, and with him in charge, we have only managed to win two games (Bolton and Charlton at home) against any team currently in the top 14.

Our best away win of the season is against Port Vale who are 16th.

These aren't good stats at all. We are the very definition of flat track bullies in this league. It may be enough to get us top six with the likes of Burton, MK Dons and Forest Green still to play. But beyond that I don't hold much hope.

 

 

Possession and controlling style?  We couldn’t even hold on to the ball, tackle or pass to a white shirt for the first 60 minutes. Tactics don’t really don’t make the blindest bit of difference if you can’t do that.

Very rarely am I critical and annoyed in the way I am am with the players today.  They looked like a pub team that had been out on the town the night before.

 

[Brammie Steve]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

We can stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that Warne 's management approach, team selection, choice of subsitutions & squad management throughout the season has got absolutely no bearing on how poor some recent performances have been.

We can attempt to create division by trying to making out that anyone who questions any of the above is a 'Warne basher' who doesn't understand the limitations of the squad and is putting the blame for any of our "failings" exclusively at his door.

Or we can be a bit more grown up about it and have a sensible discussion about where he's going right and where he's going wrong, without resorting to back the 'woe is us, we're just lucky to have a club' mentality where any sort of critical thinking is looked down upon.

Nah, it'll never catch on.

Stick fingers in our ears (and go tingaling aloo)?

Seems an odd place to find one's gag reflex!

Oh well, onwards and uppards!

And we are 'just lucky to have a club' IMHO!

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

We can stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that Warne 's management approach, team selection, choice of subsitutions & squad management throughout the season has got absolutely no bearing on how poor some recent performances have been.

We can attempt to create division by trying to making out that anyone who questions any of the above is a 'Warne basher' who doesn't understand the limitations of the squad and is putting the blame for any of our "failings" exclusively at his door.

Or we can be a bit more grown up about it and have a sensible discussion about where he's going right and where he's going wrong, without resorting to back the 'woe is us, we're just lucky to have a club' mentality where any sort of critical thinking is looked down upon.

Nah, it'll never catch on.

Or we can give a laughing emoji to a post which doesn't fit with your narrative rather than attempt to have a grown up, as you put it, discussion about it.

Nah it'll never catch on. 

[Miggins]

5 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Actually I only boo the ref, and the best response is to either not be thereby the time m the players come across to the fans, or turn l our backs to them. We did the latter at Villa Park during the Lampard days and it felt like we had made quite a statement. Whether it actually did or not is anyone’s guess!

Turning our backs on the players seems almost worse that booing them. I'm sure it makes quite a statement and I understand why fans feel so emotional and angry but it seems very wrong.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I'm struggling as to why Hourihane is getting pelters for their goal when one player was covered in a 3 yard radius by two central defenders and a goalie.

As a midfielder you assume they'll do their job as their coming across and standing directly in front..  The other option is too tackle from behind.  Forsyth ran straight past him and Davies fell over.

Agreed. If Hourihane is to blame for that goal then no more so than several others. Fozzie puts in a nothing cross and when it rebounds to him he loses the 50:50. Hardly critical in that position more times than not. Fleetwood get control of the ball and Cashin takes a hopeful swish, missing the ball and landing flat on his backside. Now the break is on and Hourihane, Forsyth, Davies, Cashin and Smith are running back (different speeds, different trajectories). Hourihane pursues until Forsyth overtakes and is clearly first in line to make a block, but he's completely bamboozled by the cut inside, and Hourihane doesn't seem to have anticipated it either, but arguably he's now not in the best position to guard against it without giving away a penalty. Davies is covering his options with a sort of hopeful slump-block which might get in the way of a shot to either post (probably fractionally unsighting Wildsmith in the process) but it doesn't work.

Absolutely no-one covered themselves in glory with that, but it was still a fairly unusual sort of goal and very well finished. What was not unusual in the context of the match was how often (before and after) Fleetwood looked dangerous down the flanks. 

[CocuBarmyArmy]

I feel the lethargic football we've seen in the last month or so is really a function of the age dynamic in the squad. You just can't expect players in the twilights of their careers to match the level of intensity of sides like Fleetwood and Barnsley. To get out of the league you need a healthy mix with some players in the 25-28 range which we just don't have unfortunately due to the restrictions and whatnot. It's no ones fault really, just the reality we find ourselves in.

We won't go up this year imo and there's absolutely no shame in that, really it's probably better for the club in the long term that we have a year to really get a squad together. Our recruitment next year is going to be absolutely key, we are operating in a restricted space with the EFL plan and so it's vital we get the out of contract players we need. 

[angieram]

Whilst I agree we are up against things in terms of our unbalanced squad, I think we could be a bit smarter and let the ball do more of the work, rather than grinding ourselves into the ground chasing long balls and lost causes.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Or we can give a laughing emoji to a post which doesn't fit with your narrative rather than attempt to have a grown up, as you put it, discussion about it.

Nah it'll never catch on. 

I laughed because I found your dismissive little "But of course some will attribute these "failings" down to the manager" comment funny. I mean, no s***. How dare they? I find it funny how ultra-defensive you are over any perceived criticism of Warne.

I laughed at your post because I find your constant petty little digs and your attempts to put people into boxes hilarious. You just can't help yourself.

I laughed at the notion you put forward at the end of your post - that being that there are people who find our current position 'unacceptable', that people aren't happy that we have a competitive team and are in the hunt for the playoffs. I laughed because I found it to be an overly dramatic and untrue statement.

The laughing emoji simply felt like the best fit. Nothing to do with a narrative.

 

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

Well done, you have effortlessly taken down your own strawman. Masterfully done! 

Nobody is saying that Warne's management has no implication on things. Nobody. Everything should however be considered given the full context of the situation and that we have a limited squad depth/quality. To not do so implies that you aren't approaching a discussion in good faith as I suspect might be the case here. 

That was is response to a post on another thread 

"Give it a rest with the Warne bashing… whilst we had full squad available selection available we looked half a yard off the pace all over the pitch.. that is not down to Warne, the players are likely to be more fatigue" - so yes actually, someone did explicity say it!

There have been plenty of posts throughout Warne's time here that seek to brush any discussion of any potential flaws in his under the carpet. Yesterday Fleetwood managed to rip up the carpet and a whole load of s*** got exposed. Problems can't just be ignored forever.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Jimbo Ram]

28 minutes ago, CocuBarmyArmy said:

I feel the lethargic football we've seen in the last month or so is really a function of the age dynamic in the squad. You just can't expect players in the twilights of their careers to match the level of intensity of sides like Fleetwood and Barnsley. To get out of the league you need a healthy mix with some players in the 25-28 range which we just don't have unfortunately due to the restrictions and whatnot. It's no ones fault really, just the reality we find ourselves in.

We won't go up this year imo and there's absolutely no shame in that, really it's probably better for the club in the long term that we have a year to really get a squad together. Our recruitment next year is going to be absolutely key, we are operating in a restricted space with the EFL plan and so it's vital we get the out of contract players we need. 

Haven’t we got a mix of youth and experience? Cashin, Bird, Knight, Sibley and Roberts, with White, Rooney and Dobbin chipping in, along with the experienced Fozzy, Conor, NML, Barks, Collins and McGoldrick ?

[Rev]

36 minutes ago, angieram said:

Whilst I agree we are up against things in terms of our unbalanced squad, I think we could be a bit smarter and let the ball do more of the work, rather than grinding ourselves into the ground chasing long balls and lost causes.

Absolutely this. 

There's not a player alive who's quicker than a decent pass.

[Tyler Durden]

32 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

I laughed because I found your dismissive little "But of course some will attribute these "failings" down to the manager" comment funny. I mean, no s***. How dare they? I find it funny how ultra-defensive you are over any perceived criticism of Warne.

I laughed at your post because I find your constant petty little digs and your attempts to put people into boxes hilarious. You just can't help yourself.

I laughed at the notion you put forward at the end of your post - that being that there are people who find our current position 'unacceptable', that people aren't happy that we have a competitive team and are in the hunt for the playoffs. I laughed because I found it to be an overly dramatic and untrue statement.

The laughing emoji simply felt like the best fit. Nothing to do with a narrative.

 

That was is response to a post on another thread 

"Give it a rest with the Warne bashing… whilst we had full squad available selection available we looked half a yard off the pace all over the pitch.. that is not down to Warne, the players are likely to be more fatigue" - so yes actually, someone did explicity say it!

There have been plenty of posts throughout Warne's time here that seek to brush any discussion of any potential flaws in his under the carpet. Yesterday Fleetwood managed to rip up the carpet and a whole load of s*** got exposed. Problems can't just be ignored forever.

I know this isn't an Instagram site but so far 11 people have given positive feedback to the post your alluding to, with only one person providing the laughing emoji. You.

So it would appear that whatever you've read into my post hasn't been interpreted by the other 11 forum members, which would lead to a reasonable conclusion being made that you tried to further some personal agenda of your own and/or create a strawman argument as another poster has quite rightly pointed out.