Fleetwood Home Sat 18th March 3.00pm

[kevinhectoring]

13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

And left a huge gap at his near post for the 2nd. Compare his positioning for the excellent near post save in the 2nd half. I rate him, at this level, but his performance was off, as was others in the first half.

Gomes had cut inside. It wasn’t a tight angle. 

[S8TY]

Some slating Hourihane is laughable IMO

If we wanted players who will run through brick walls and have constant energy like Knight for example we would not have signed Hourihane at all

He has scored some good goals and assisted quite a few as well so guess what ? if you take him out I don't think it would help.... He has never been a marauding CM and has value on the pitch for me as long as the other mids balance it out

To say he is one of the worst signings ever is a joke quite frankly....Mikkel Beck , Bob Malcolm , Derek Hales , Claude Davis , there's plenty of players deserved of that title and Hourihane is not one of them 

 

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I do think it's provocative, as you say we are MASSIVE. They never will be, that must hurt.

 

9 hours ago, Foreveram said:

I’m sure their 285 fans enjoyed the big day out.

Quotes like this are no less embarrassing than what their Twitter page said.

[angieram]

I know he's there to "pass" into the net, but that stat is shocking. Three passes completed in 90 minutes on the pitch.

We really need to slow down this 100mph galloping around and get some control back into our game.

 

[sage]

One thing that no one seems to be talking about is...our pressing.

We've practically stopped doing it and it's making the rest of our game out of sync.

Since the tiredness became really apparent, we are conceding 2 goals a game on average.

We won't stay in the top 6 if that continues.

[May Contain Nuts]

10 hours ago, Andicis said:

Saying it isn't Warne's fault for low energy and being off the pace isn't saying that Warne is completely free from all blame or that he doesn't influence things. It's a fact that we use less players than other teams and have a smaller squad. That's a reasonable analysis of the situation. 

Blame Warne for things that he can control. But with context, and reason. You act like he has a cult around him, when in reality people are just defending Warne as he is limited by what he has to work with. 

If it had said "that's not entirely down to Warne" you'd have a point, but "that is not down to Warne" is a categorical statement indicating he is free from responsibility. As I'm sure you'd argue if the shoe was on the other foot.

In the aftermath of the match people were voicing their frustration and looking at reasons for our downturn in form and our poor results against certain types of opposition (it's not necessarily their league position that matters). I don't think anyone laid the blame squarely and exclusively at the feet of Warne, rather pointed out that there are ways and means of managing a squad with our limitations so that they don't run out of puff quite so dramatically, which have seemingly not been put into place.

Acknowledging that isn't 'blaming Warne without context and reason' it's using context and reason to make a point about squad management. There's not really any need for anyone to defend him from that observation.

There was certainly no need to insult other people's intelligence by suggesting that they hadn't considered that the team / squad isn't as strong as they think it is etc.

And hey, if the robe fits! There very much are posters who have and will try to lead the conversation away from talking about these things any chance they get. That's fine, just don't do it by making out that people who are expressing concern are unable to see the wider picture.

That said Saturday did seem like a little bit of a turning point for some.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[OUTSIDER]

Grandson took this after the game.

[Leeds Ram]

21 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So what are you suggesting Leeds, we sack Warne then what? I liked Liam and was surprised and disappointed that we let him go. But the decision has been made and I think we need to get behind Warne. He hasn’t had the easiest of jobs and there was always going to be a blip along the road after our wonderful run. I don’t want to go back to the rollercoaster of sacking managers after less than a season, especially when we are still in the top 6 and starting all over again. Let’s show a bit of patience and see what happens ?

I didn't say we need to sack him Jimbo and nowhere have I said or even suggested that. However, I do find this patch of form very worrying. We're shipping goals left and right, don't seem to really have much of a plan once we go behind and our style of play has dissolved into getting the ball into wide areas and lumping it in. Our record against the top half should be a big concern to all of us. It indicates that if a half-decent team sets their stall out, then we really struggle to beat them. I don't think this is purely a matter of squad depth but a bigger issue around tactics and style of play that we suffer from.

[Jimbo Ram]

22 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I didn't say we need to sack him Jimbo and nowhere have I said or even suggested that. However, I do find this patch of form very worrying. We're shipping goals left and right, don't seem to really have much of a plan once we go behind and our style of play has dissolved into getting the ball into wide areas and lumping it in. Our record against the top half should be a big concern to all of us. It indicates that if a half-decent team sets their stall out, then we really struggle to beat them. I don't think this is purely a matter of squad depth but a bigger issue around tactics and style of play that we suffer from.

What do you think has changed then from the tactics and team selection during our 16 game unbeaten run ?

[Leeds Ram]

On 19/03/2023 at 08:03, BramcoteRam84 said:

Yes. Fundamentally different to Shrewsbury and even Barnsley though we were shocking there and there were similarities. 
 

Shrewsbury we were excellent, in complete control before an individual error led to a free kick and us conceding from nothing, we then had about 15 mins of madness they got a penalty which never was in a million years, 2-2 and we had chances to win it at the death. Shrewsbury was a proper head scratcher, and we played football through the midfield.

Barnsley I could tell in first minute we weren’t at it and we gave away very poor goals through individual, however we also had a go and could’ve scored 4 ourselves. 
 

Plymouth we were the wrong side of an even game, but the Oxford we rode our luck a bit.

All teams have dips. I think you need to separate home and away form. We have struggled against the top half away the stats prove this. But at home we’ve been dominant especially against the bottom half teams.

That was an aberration yesterday, a one off, it was that bad and it was caused by players not doing the basics, whatever tactics you deploy and whatever team selected a team goes out and plays like that you’re going to get nothing. It was so bad i was barracking the team, getting on their case and booing!!! I never do that!! Not done it for years!!
 

Warne isn’t telling them to play like that, far from it. therefore IMO can’t be linked to a downturn in performance since Cheltenham and warnes tactics being found out. 

That being said you can’t not be concerned about it. I didn’t think we were capable of that and as someone who has been supremely confident of playoffs, I now have my doubts, I certainly have my doubts about promotion but my gut feeling all along is this was going to take 2 seasons. But if we can get over the line into the playoffs we definitely have the team that can win it.

Tbh I thought saturday and Barnsley were very similar. I was at both games and in both we looked off the pace from the first minute, struggled to really have a pattern of play that worked and were overrun in key areas. The stats say even at home against top-half teams we struggle to put them away. Against bottom half sides it's very rare at home that we struggle. But given the size differential between the two this is not surprising. 

All in all we are about where I'd expect us to be but I find this patch in form alarming. Not just for the results but for what appears to be the lack of a coherent plan. On Saturday it didn't look like they knew what to do, where they were supposed to be or what goals they were supposed to achieve personally in the game. Defensively I think Warne's tactics put us at risk with an ageing squad as does his emphasis on energy and work rate rather than a stronger retention of the ball. I do think his tactics and inability to change a game atm is part of the problems we currently have.

[May Contain Nuts]

11 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

What do you think has changed then from the tactics and team selection during our 16 game unbeaten run ?

A relatively simple question, but one which requires a complex answer which nobody could ever hope to cover all of in a single post without leaving holes in which nits can and will be picked!

[Leeds Ram]

29 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

What do you think has changed then from the tactics and team selection during our 16 game unbeaten run ?

I think that we've started being less brave on the ball and more happy to play percentages. Defensively, I think it's more of a question of teams doing their homework and realising if they play with a certain intensity or catch us on a break then we struggle to deal with that. I do also think more personal errors have slipped in- Wildsmith being a case in point. 

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I know he's there to "pass" into the net, but that stat is shocking. Three passes completed in 90 minutes on the pitch.

We really need to slow down this 100mph galloping around and get some control back into our game.

 

Bloody hell, thats even one less than the North Stand ballboy...

[Stive Pesley]

Some fat old blokes started fighting each other in the West Stand behind me and that was the most entertaining part of the game

[MadAmster]

Barnsley. We lost that because we gifted them 3 goals. 10 shots each on the day. 5 each on target. Never a 4-1 game.

Fleetwood? They had a game plan that worked well for them, exploiting our frailer areas. PW reacted late, IMO. Changes should have come earlier than 44 minutes. He needs to find the middle ground between what he wants and some control of the ball. I'm not advocating going back to  the slow, slow, slower, slower, slow of Clement or Cocu or the not quite so slow under Rooney/Rosenior but it's not the one or the other. There's a time for playing through the thirds with control, there's a time for hitting the wings and getting crosses in and there's a time for the long ball over the top. Seems to me that we've spent much of the past few seasons utilising a single tactic rather than using footballing sense and playing the right tactic at the right time in a game. Top teams do it, we seem not to.

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I know he's there to "pass" into the net, but that stat is shocking. Three passes completed in 90 minutes on the pitch.

We really need to slow down this 100mph galloping around and get some control back into our game.

 

What mid-season form. I must have missed that. He really offers nothing and yet somehow gets selected every game. How he lasted the 90 minutes I don't know. His position, anticipation and runs are all over the shop. 

[Ovine_Interferer]

I just think that the threadbare nature of the squad is beginning to tell, just like it did last season. They can't keep up the pressing game two or three times a week without being able to fully recuperate in between. Just my 2 penn'orth

 

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, OUTSIDER said:

Grandson took this after the game.

A bit ominous that the end of the rainbow misses PP. ?

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

I'm a Warne fan and but he got it horribly wrong on Saturday and chickened out of putting it right until too late.

Very much had the Wembley Way feeling when I saw the line-up and who was on the bench.

Curtis has too much credit in the bank to be criticised - the question is whether he should now be picked and, if he does get picked, how it affects the play. It appears that if Curtis plays, there is a no passing through midfield policy applied so we go wide and/or long. Who do you pick to get on the end of lumpball.......a striker who wins headers and can hold it up (DM) or one who doesn't (JC)?

Bird didn't touch the ball for 20 mins and Hourihane had scraps.

My wife asked for a prediction pre-match and I said Springett would get hooked after 60 mins having contributed nothing. Springett should be nowhere near our first 11. It's not his fault he's picked but we essentially started with 10 players and elected to play with about 6 of them.

The coaches were deliberating making changes from about 25 mins and jibbed until 43 mins - should have been before their second goal. Hourihane is one of our best players - if we choose to involve him in the game. Didn't deserve hooking IMO.

Yes, some other players had stinkers but this was Warne's fault. I hope he shares the blame after he's had time to reflect rather than losing the dressing room......where he now has some bridges to build.

Pick the right team and involve the better players in the play and play-offs aren't a problem. COYR

[sage]

1 minute ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

I'm a Warne fan and but he got it horribly wrong on Saturday and chickened out of putting it right until too late.

Very much had the Wembley Way feeling when I saw the line-up and who was on the bench.

Curtis has too much credit in the bank to be criticised - the question is whether he should now be picked and, if he does get picked, how it affects the play. It appears that if Curtis plays, there is a no passing through midfield policy applied so we go wide and/or long. Who do you pick to get on the end of lumpball.......a striker who wins headers and can hold it up (DM) or one who doesn't (JC)?

Bird didn't touch the ball for 20 mins and Hourihane had scraps.

My wife asked for a prediction pre-match and I said Springett would get hooked after 60 mins having contributed nothing. Springett should be nowhere near our first 11. It's not his fault he's picked but we essentially started with 10 players and elected to play with about 6 of them.

The coaches were deliberating making changes from about 25 mins and jibbed until 43 mins - should have been before their second goal. Hourihane is one of our best players - if we choose to involve him in the game. Didn't deserve hooking IMO.

Yes, some other players had stinkers but this was Warne's fault. I hope he shares the blame after he's had time to reflect rather than losing the dressing room......where he now has some bridges to build.

Pick the right team and involve the better players in the play and play-offs aren't a problem. COYR

I would agree, but add why he did this. 

He needs to rest players but our squad isn't big enough to do this without a drop in standards.

If you allow for the Butterfly Effect, ROI not selecting Hourihane could cost us a play off place.