Is Paul Warne the next Nigel Pearson?

[Bris Vegas]

I hope not.

We all know Nigel Pearson’s 4-4-2 direct football was never going to work after Clough and McClaren had built a possession-based 4-3-3 side. 

I’m sensing a deja vu. Sort of.

We had to get bodies in the building during the summer. But all of our signings were geared towards a possession-based 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.

Smith, Hourihane and McGoldrick are three ball-playing central players. NML and Bark wide forwards. 

But after just a handful of games we have ripped up the summer recruitment by ditching Rosenior and going for a manager with a completely different style.

Paul Warne plays 3-5-2. He has three promotions with that. I rate him highly. He isn’t going to move away from something he knows works, especially at this level.

But it’s clear we don’t have the players for his style. Barks is looking terrible at LWB. NML looks a shadow of the exciting wide forward of the first few games. I can see Hourihane struggling to get back in. McGoldrick too.

To get promoted, something must give. Warne will not get us promoted with this current side.

Changes will have to be made in January and next summer. I just hope DC is patient and smart enough to realize this and gives Warne the time to build a side who can play his system.

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

I hope not.

We all know Nigel Pearson’s 4-4-2 direct football was never going to work after Clough and McClaren had built a possession-based 4-3-3 side. 

I’m sensing a deja vu. Sort of.

We had to get bodies in the building during the summer. But all of our signings were geared towards a possession-based 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.

Smith, Hourihane and McGoldrick are three ball-playing central players. NML and Bark wide forwards. 

But after just a handful of games we have ripped up the summer recruitment by ditching Rosenior and going for a manager with a completely different style.

Paul Warne plays 3-5-2. He has three promotions with that. I rate him highly. He isn’t going to move away from something he knows works, especially at this level.

But it’s clear we don’t have the players for his style. Barks is looking terrible at LWB. NML looks a shadow of the exciting wide forward of the first few games. I can see Hourihane struggling to get back in. McGoldrick too.

To get promoted, something must give. Warne will not get us promoted with this current side.

Changes will have to be made in January and next summer. I just hope DC is patient and smart enough to realize this and gives Warne the time to build a side who can play his system.

 

Pearson was sacked because of Keogh and his merry men.  When Warne goes it will be because he has severe limitations and won't budge from Rotherham rollerball.

[Seth's left foot]

If Warne persists with Barkhuisen at LWB and our best attacking threat NML at RWB, then I will start to have concerns about his style of play.

That was a dreadful attacking performance and he should have changed to a back four once it became clear that we weren’t creating anything.

I feel sorry for those fans that made the trip, they should at least see us have a go.

Knight was a big loss and he needs to be looked after this season, certainly not playing in the tin pot trophies.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

But it’s clear we don’t have the players for his style. Barks is looking terrible at LWB. NML looks a shadow of the exciting wide forward of the first few games. I can see Hourihane struggling to get back in. McGoldrick too.

Barkhuizen certainly was terrible last night, but he wasn’t terrible at the weekend - similar story for NML.

On the strength of his performances to date, I won’t lose much sleep if Hourihane can’t force his way back in. I wouldn’t be saying that if he’d set the world alight before his injury, but I don’t believe he did.

McGoldrick contributed nothing after coming on, but that’s the first time this season I can say that. Personally I thought he should have come on for Sibley and shifted the emphasis of attack with a bit of nous and application to support the youngsters up front. I’m almost wondering if we went to zero strikers with the next (winnable) game in mind. Seemed an odd decision and really the only note of dissent against PW in what was essentially a predictable defeat against a good team (for this level) who’ve had much longer to get themselves sorted.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Guest
Somehow deleted Bris’ comment from the quote box!

[Rich84]

I think we need to take a step back and look at what we have, asking to play a back 4 when 90% of people were screaming for us to recruit a RB in the summer....

Guess what - we don't have 1....

Play 2 CH's which in this division needs pace which with the 5 on the books only Roberts has, and he's inexperienced and plays the same side as Cashin. By necessity we need 3 to make up for lack of pace in the middle.

Also 4 at the back needs a quality holding midfielder....

Guess what - we don't have 1.... (don't say Bielik)

Then LB... what do we do, play an inexperienced CH in Roberts there or Fozzie  another one 90% slag off continually....

Yeah 4 at the back is the answer.

 

I also think there are some very short memories,  goal kicks in the 6 yrd box, pointless possession in our own 3rd, we would have been slaughtered last night playing that way, as shown with the goal, 3 players were on that press instantly, hence the rebound was always likely to fall to one of them, we looked ok passing the ball ponderous across the back when we weren't under pressure, and never creates chances as too slow getting forwards.

Give it chance fgs

[RadioactiveWaste]

Well there simply isn't the option to remove Warne and start over, so they're going to have to get good at being a Paul Warne team.

[Tyler Durden]

You mean he's going to start abusing local reporters in press conferences?

Stupid, hysterical post. He's done more than Rosenoir managed to do so far in his brief career at Derby yet there's these threads being churned out already. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Basically I think our new owner has made a mistake in bringing in Warne. Bris has summed up perfectly above. 

[Truckle]

I think getting rid of Liam was a mistake that could haunt us for years.  When he went we had the joint best home results in the league.  Can’t really do better than that.  Our away results were bad but our away form was generally pretty good.  Four away games is a crazily small sample size on which to base a season defining decision.   If you just look at the stats for away games under Liam we averaged 13 shots a game with 4.75 on target, under Warne it is 8.25 with 3 on target.  Admittedly it is still a ridiculously small sample size but there are also examples that come to mind.  Just before half time against Oxford, Collins chases down a defender forces a mistake and hits the post.  At exactly the same point in the match against Cambridge he does the same and scores.   That’s going to even out over a season.

So we lost a guy who had built a team to play in his style and brought in one who wants to play in a way entirely unsuited to the players he has.

I think the reason Clowes pulled the trigger is that he was thinking like a fan, there’s a bit more about that here if you can be arsed.
 

https://www.simontruckle.com/post/why-fans-should-never-be-chairman

 

[Gritstone Tup]

Very early days yet so let’s calm down ffs!

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Truckle said:

I think getting rid of Liam was a mistake that could haunt us for years.  When he went we had the joint best home results in the league.  Can’t really do better than that.  Our away results were bad but our away form was generally pretty good.  Four away games is a crazily small sample size on which to base a season defining decision.   If you just look at the stats for away games under Liam we averaged 13 shots a game with 4.75 on target, under Warne it is 8.25 with 3 on target.  Admittedly it is still a ridiculously small sample size but there are also examples that come to mind.  Just before half time against Oxford, Collins chases down a defender forces a mistake and hits the post.  At exactly the same point in the match against Cambridge he does the same and scores.   That’s going to even out over a season.

So we lost a guy who had built a team to play in his style and brought in one who wants to play in a way entirely unsuited to the players he has.

I think the reason Clowes pulled the trigger is that he was thinking like a fan, there’s a bit more about that here if you can be arsed.
 

https://www.simontruckle.com/post/why-fans-should-never-be-chairman

 

The away form or results or whatever you want to call them haven't just been bad this season though have they? They've been abysmal for some time now. 

Didn't see that fact mentioned in your article. You've taken such a narrow sampling range to attempt to justify your own agenda it's simply not appropriate, other than purely to further your own personal opinion. 

I can't even describe what style Rosenoir had his team playing in other than to instruct them to religiously lose every away game they played in it seemed as that was the inevitable outcome. 

Nice to see a bit of positivity on this forum for a change though ?

[EraniosSocks]

I hope most of you was drunk writing this last night and have woke up with the feeling of “what have I wrote on the forum now” 

 

Embarrassing. We played the best team in the league last night, heavily invested and play wonderful football. We have a new manager and a new style of football that’s going to take getting use to. Get a grip people and get behind the team 

[Truckle]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The away form or results or whatever you want to call them haven't just been bad this season though have they? They've been abysmal for some time now. 

Didn't see that fact mentioned in your article. You've taken such a narrow sampling range to attempt to justify your own agenda it's simply not appropriate, other than purely to further your own personal opinion. 

I can't even describe what style Rosenoir had his team playing in other than to instruct them to religiously lose every away game they played in it seemed as that was the inevitable outcome. 

Nice to see a bit of positivity on this forum for a change though ?

This bit "The away form or results or whatever you want to call them haven't just been bad this season though have they? They've been abysmal for some time now. " is exactly the point I wanted to address.  We don't see this season in isolation we see it as continuation of last season and every disappointing away day.  If you examined just this season with no baggage it is unlikely you would sack Rosenior.  That's all.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Truckle said:

This bit "The away form or results or whatever you want to call them haven't just been bad this season though have they? They've been abysmal for some time now. " is exactly the point I wanted to address.  We don't see this season in isolation we see it as continuation of last season and every disappointing away day.  If you examined just this season with no baggage it is unlikely you would sack Rosenior.  That's all.

But the decision not to allow Rosenoir to continue in his role patently wasn't taken in isolation that's my point.

And Rosenoir and Warne should not be judged in isolation on the games so far this season, Warne has been here 5 minutes, we should look at the whole of Rosenoirs tenure to form a balanced view on his capabilities. 

[Jimbo Ram]

5 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I hope not.

We all know Nigel Pearson’s 4-4-2 direct football was never going to work after Clough and McClaren had built a possession-based 4-3-3 side. 

I’m sensing a deja vu. Sort of.

We had to get bodies in the building during the summer. But all of our signings were geared towards a possession-based 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.

Smith, Hourihane and McGoldrick are three ball-playing central players. NML and Bark wide forwards. 

But after just a handful of games we have ripped up the summer recruitment by ditching Rosenior and going for a manager with a completely different style.

Paul Warne plays 3-5-2. He has three promotions with that. I rate him highly. He isn’t going to move away from something he knows works, especially at this level.

But it’s clear we don’t have the players for his style. Barks is looking terrible at LWB. NML looks a shadow of the exciting wide forward of the first few games. I can see Hourihane struggling to get back in. McGoldrick too.

To get promoted, something must give. Warne will not get us promoted with this current side.

Changes will have to be made in January and next summer. I just hope DC is patient and smart enough to realize this and gives Warne the time to build a side who can play his system.

 

Excellent post ?

[Jimbo Ram]

54 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

You mean he's going to start abusing local reporters in press conferences?

Stupid, hysterical post. He's done more than Rosenoir managed to do so far in his brief career at Derby yet there's these threads being churned out already. 

Has he done better than Rosie so far? About the same I would say. Do you think we should persist with 3 at the back with Barks and NML as wing backs ?

[Crewton]

One correction, Smith isn't a "ball playing central player" - he's a "win it and give it" defensive midfielder. 

I can see where the OP is coming from : like Pearson, Warne is trying to implement a very different way of playing with someone else's players (though Pearson did have one transfer window in which to refine the playing squad).

Judge Warne more closely after January, if he's able to bolster the squad. The last thing we need to do is go back to hire and fire. 

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

One correction, Smith isn't a "ball playing central player" - he's a "win it and give it" defensive midfielder. 

I can see where the OP is coming from : like Pearson, Warne is trying to implement a very different way of playing with someone else's players (though Pearson did have one transfer window in which to refine the playing squad).

Judge Warne more closely after January, if he's able to bolster the squad. The last thing we need to do is go back to hire and fire. 

We’ve got to stick with him but my gut feeling is it might take time for him to get the players he needs to be able to implement his style. So begs the question what does he do until January? Adapt his style to suit the players he currently has or stick with a system that is unlikely to work ?

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

59 minutes ago, EraniosSocks said:

I hope most of you was drunk writing this last night and have woke up with the feeling of “what have I wrote on the forum now” 

 

Embarrassing. We played the best team in the league last night, heavily invested and play wonderful football. We have a new manager and a new style of football that’s going to take getting use to. Get a grip people and get behind the team 

We didn’t get walloped last night, although reading some posts may quite easily lead anyone who didn’t go/ watch the match to this conclusion.

They defended high up the pitch and we simply didn’t utilise the the pace we had upfront. On another day with a little more luck we could’ve and probably should’ve got something from the game.

However Shnit happens, on to the next one.

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

We didn’t get walloped last night, although reading some posts may quite easily lead anyone who didn’t go/ watch the match to this conclusion.

They defended high up the pitch and we simply didn’t utilise the the pace we had upfront. On another day with a little more luck we could’ve and probably should’ve got something from the game.

However Shnit happens, on to the next one.

We didn’t have a shot on target all game with just 3 attempts. Don’t think that suggests we deserved anything out of that game. I also don’t think Ipswich were on the top of their game either.