Derby County v Port Vale - The Matchday Thread

[Foreveram]

1 hour ago, Rampant said:

In what way do you think he cheated? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment but which decisions do you feel he got wrong?

How long have you got.

[Crewton]

Why didn't their nr 22 get a second yellow for a studs-up challenge shortly after Collins was sent off? 

Regardless of whether the penos and sending off were correct decisions, why was this ref given this game after Port Vale had a complaint against him upheld? The optics stink. 

[DavesaRam]

21 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Bit one sided that Dave ?

Yes. Port Vale did give us a good game, but in the end didn't threaten our goal much at all. We handed them their goals on a plate. And the one-sidedness is simply trying to compensate for the one-sided officiating! ?

[DavesaRam]

Incidentally, here is that info on the ref and the Port Vale manager getting all pally: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1449069285597914&set=p.1449069285597914&type=3 

 

[Jourdan]

I feel sorry for Warne. This is a game we should have drawn at the very least, but the players let him down with poor decision making.

It’s all about the response now. It’s time to regroup, assess what we can do better, and get another away win on the board.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

 

Midfield still an issue. This isn’t a Warne issue, it’s been a problem all season. Bird

 

Hourihane thinks his job is to take free kicks and corners and to show the odd moment of brilliance if someone gets the ball to him in space. Otherwise he slows up play (we were transitioning better and more quickly today especially in the first half, until the ball got to him) and saunters around. We started with 10.5 and ended with 9.5 players. Doesn’t work 

[VulcanRam]

58 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I'm in the North Stand Corner so can someone clear this up for me please, As I saw it altho from as far away as poss, Nowts given until PV players surround the ref, Lino looks to be pointing for a corner, Lad next to me says he's given a pen, I said was his flag across his chest...he didn't know?‍♀️

Ref then speaks to the lino, Still confused, Then walks towards the spot...still confused...what's he given...then I see it's a penalty, I left thinking the linesman gave the penalty ?‍♀️

I'm annoyed bloody annoyed I can accept being beaten, I can't accept pro players either giving the most stupid of pens away or passing across your own box was this Stearman too?‍♀️The Collins incident again I'm down the other end and my eyes seem to be as bad as that of fool in the middle ?

Flag across the chest signal was scrapped a couple of years ago. The signal for a penalty now is running towards the corner flag with flag down pointing at the ground, coming to a standstill on the corner.

The ref certainly didn’t give it, so the lino must have. Which to be fair was on his side,  and he had a better view than the ref, he was doing his job. We can argue whether he was right or wrong to give it. Up in the south stand my first impression was it was a penalty.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Why didn't their nr 22 get a second yellow for a studs-up challenge shortly after Collins was sent off? 

Regardless of whether the penos and sending off were correct decisions, why was this ref given this game after Port Vale had a complaint against him upheld? The optics stink. 

He's going to have an interesting career if he plans to go around putting right past wrongs done to a club at the expense of their next opponents! Still, let's get the complaint in and hope we get him for a promotion six-pointer, or the next East Midlands derby. (We could hope for him to be struck off the list, but I think this idea is more realistic)

[Jimbo Ram]

20 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Which reopens in January, no? Which is what all of the comments were talking about...

Yep, can make some loans in January.

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, Rampant said:

In what way do you think he cheated? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment but which decisions do you feel he got wrong?

See below.

47 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

It's amazing how differently people see things at a football match! It seems most people think the Rams were pretty poor, even awful for mot of the match. I saw it that we could have been 2 or 3 up at half time, and all match long Port Vale only threatened our goal 3 times - and one of those wasn't the first penalty, which wasn't even on target. And yes, justice was done by that miss.

And yes as was apoplectic about the ref for most of the match. He was appallingly bad in the first half, but was screwing both side, because he had absolutely no idea what an agenda was. Clearly the EFL put him right on that one at half time. Having said that, Vale should have been down to ten men long before half time. Their number 22 spent virtually the entire match diving to the floor, and should have been carded for it, so his actual yellow card for the foul should have been his second. 

So when he committed that yellow card foul in front of the dug-outs in the second half, he should have been walking off. The ref dodged the issue by playing the advantage, but then failing to go back and deal with the foul afterwards. The first penalty should have been a yellow card for simulation - a very harsh decision, given by the linesman, the second one the ref gave from 30 yards behind the play, as he was for most of his poor decisions. He gave offside following a Derby free-kick from 30 yards behind the play (again) when the lino hadn't seen anything, and had no idea what was going on, until the ref indicated offside, and had to tell him to put his flag up - which he did, pointing straight up into the sky because he still didn't know what was going on.. Again, how I don't know because there were defenders between the Derby players and the goal.

And the Collins incident - Collins was wrestled to the floor, the defender pulling Collins down on top of himself, so regardless of the "afters", it should have been a penalty. 

A penalty to Derby County? Are you being serious, Dave? But he was able to instantaneously give the red card from  - yes, you've guessed it - 30 yards behind the play. No way could he see what had happened, and seemed determined to wade in with his card regardless. But when Collins was then thrown to the floor, what did he do? Nowt. AS he did when Max Birds was tripped running into the area. Come on - that is two very good penalty shouts come to nothing. And when Sibley was wrestled to the ground right near the end, it was somehow a free- kick to Port Vale. Someone reckoned at wasn't yet another penalty denied, but that must come from having aspirations of becoming an EFL match official. What made it worse was the Vale player giving Sibley a playful double slap to the cheek as he got up, rubbing things in - the Vale man knew what had gone on, no doubt. 

The turning point was the decision ignoring the trip on Max Bird in the area - that made it blatantly clear that the match was never going to go our way, as were the vast majority of decisions, and sadly our heads went down from that point onwards. So it was only a matter of time before that 2nd goal went in. And to their credit Vale did take advantage of the extra man.

And about whether the police should get involved for Collins assaulting the Port Vale player - they certainly should get involved with their keep after the match had ended, because he was winding the Derby fans up, and actually told the South Standers to meet him outside - and yes there were some stood near the Vale team coach afterwards to have "words" with him. That is inciting the crowd to violence, which I believe is an arrestable offence.

It is the first match in ages where the officials were escorted off the pitch before any of the players - they normally wait until the Derby players come across to the South Stand so it sounds like were are applauding them off the pitch. Not today - they were running away as soon as they possibly could.

There is a tweet going round showing how the opposition manager met with this ref after a previous match where he had made some awful decisions against Port Vale. Not that we can read anything into this, of course, but it is funny how things turned out today.

I left the ground today disappointed and very angry, but also pleased with how Derby were trying to get things moving forwards every time they got the ball, and were the only team really threatening the goal. If that chance which Knight put wide had gone in, we would have been two up after only 7 minutes, and game over. There were several clearances on or near the goal line. IF their number 22 (and no, I have no intention of bothering to look his name up) had been properly dealt with for his misdemeanours, or if we had been given just on of the three good penalty shouts, we would have won that. And if we hadn't let our heads go down at the appalling decisions going against us, we may well have won. When we are moving forwards, it is not so silky smooth and easy on the eye as it was under Rosenior, but it is one heck of a lot faster and with a whole load of purpose, which to me is much more exciting. There is much to be hopeful about with this team. Stick around guys and stay wit us. I believe we are going somewhere!

 

[FlyBritishMidland]

1 hour ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I'm in the North Stand Corner so can someone clear this up for me please, As I saw it altho from as far away as poss, Nowts given until PV players surround the ref, Lino looks to be pointing for a corner, Lad next to me says he's given a pen, I said was his flag across his chest...he didn't know?‍♀️

Ref then speaks to the lino, Still confused, Then walks towards the spot...still confused...what's he given...then I see it's a penalty, I left thinking the linesman gave the penalty ?‍♀️

I'm annoyed bloody annoyed I can accept being beaten, I can't accept pro players either giving the most stupid of pens away or passing across your own box was this Stearman too?‍♀️The Collins incident again I'm down the other end and my eyes seem to be as bad as that of fool in the middle ?

I’m in the North Stand and so once he blown his whistle and we’re all wondering what for I kept looking the linesman.  He clearly pointed for a corner.  At no point did he put his flag across his chest.  The linesman didn’t even put his flag up for offside when the ref blew for it off one of our free kicks.

I’ve seen a video of the Collins incident. It’s ever so hard to tell if he caught him.  Collins slams the floor and I don’t think he’s intending to hit the player. The ref responds to the players reaction.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Yep, can make some loans in January.

Good point but instead of introducing more new players the priority should be getting more out of the ones we already have or integrating them better 

[uttoxram75]

56 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I would disagree.

I don’t normally criticise the officials but today, they were poor. However, they seem to have got two key decisions right. The second penalty was definitely the right decision and, given Collins reaction, I suspect he did make contact and if so a red card was correct.

We could have been a couple of goals up by half time but we could just have easily been on level terms. I don’t often agree with radio Derby but there are two things they said which I thought were spot on: 1) It contributed but we didn’t lose because of the officials and 2) Port Vale did a job on us.

I'm not disputing the fact that overall we were poor but no matter how you play, if the ref cheats its bloody hard work.

The ref today cheated. 

[Blondest Goat]

18 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Hourihane thinks his job is to take free kicks and corners and to show the odd moment of brilliance if someone gets the ball to him in space. Otherwise he slows up play (we were transitioning better and more quickly today especially in the first half, until the ball got to him) and saunters around. We started with 10.5 and ended with 9.5 players. Doesn’t work 

You'd happily give the 6 points he has single-handedly won us back would you?

[Tyler Durden]

The definition of cheating is to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. 

What personal advantage did the referree gain today?

He may well have been incompetent but cheating is a bit strong and tbh totally inappropriate use of words. 

[I am Ram]

3 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

You'd happily give the 6 points he has single-handedly won us back would you?

Fair comment, but where was he, in the other ten games ? Polishing a turd at the minute. Not a scapegoat but at this level, he has disappointed, his game is affecting Bird somehow.It ain't working.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I'm not disputing the fact that overall we were poor but no matter how you play, if the ref cheats its bloody hard work.

The ref today cheated. 

It makes it harder, I agree, but it doesn’t mean how poorly, or otherwise, we played irrelevant. Also, “cheated” is a strong word. I’m not sure he set out with the intention of making sure we lost. Sure, he got some decisions wrong (in our eyes) but not the two key ones and it wasn’t his fault we lost the midfield battle even when it was 11 v 11.

[Ram-Alf]

32 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

How long have you got.

"Cheating" is one hell of an accusation, I'm a little concerned with the PV manager visiting the ref after he reffed a PV game, Influenced from this visit is another term for "cheating", Favouring one team over the other has gone on for decades and decades and decades.

I'm not going to call him a "cheat" incompetent, Poor decision making, easily influenced, He's clearly not up to the standard even for this standard, If PVs manager has had to have a word with him in a previous game concerning his performance then there's clearly an issue with this official and only continuous bad marks will the relevant authorities take action...but i'll not hold my breath ?  

[i-Ram]

I know we lost, but I am looking forward to Paul being hilarious in his next interview. Perhaps he might wear a funny scarf, no socks, that will do it, some funny socks. I’ll definitely buy them socks.

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I know we lost, but I am looking forward to Paul being hilarious in his next interview. Perhaps he might wear a funny scarf, no socks, that will do it, some funny socks. I’ll definitely buy them socks.

Me too…..and the scarf if I have the pennies.