Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[Carnero]

20 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

What would be so terrible about staying in this league compared to being promoted? I want to watch Derby County play football matches and ideally win more than they lose, if that is in league one, the championship or the premier league it’s essentially the same expectation I’ll always have, just that the surroundings and standard of the opposition might change which could then affect our ability to win those games. I won’t lose the opportunity to support the club if we stay down, anymore than I will if we get promoted, so any scenario will work for me once I’ve dealt with the associated emotions of being promoted or missing out, the summer will happen, players will come and go, the club and our support will remain regardless of league, that’s the great thing for me as we so nearly lost that. 

I agree with every single word of this, bravo.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

Judging from what was written, Rooney provided the pulling power and motivated the players (he did both quite well) but it was LR who was behind tactics. If that’s right, then it would support the decision not to appoint LR on a permanent basis.  

The chance of promotion this season seems to be slipping away. We know from the last supporters’ meeting that if we get promoted, we are onto a new business plan. Given our turnover, if we do go up it will be well within us to stay up
 

Some are now saying: maybe another season in div1 will be best for us. Don’t buy that at all. We could be stuck in this league for years if we don’t get it right or if we have a run of bad luck. And we have form on both. The longer we’re down here the more difficult it’ll be to get out, EFL restrictions or not.  

 

I think it was more a case of Rosenior doing the coaching, whilst Rooney chose the tactics. Flip-flopping between route 1 and possession football game by game under Rooney, whilst only possession football under Rosenior is strong evidence.
Rooney = match up to the opposition
Rosenior = play our own game.

It was also Rooney picking the team, which is why we often saw Shinnie and Knight at DM for energy, pressing and 'tough tackling'.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

The bit I struggle to reconcile with my own views versus other people’s is the apparent urgency some feel to be promoted and the implied short term thinking that is coming from some areas of the fan base with regards to the management team. What would be so terrible about staying in this league compared to being promoted? I want to watch Derby County play football matches and ideally win more than they lose, if that is in league one, the championship or the premier league it’s essentially the same expectation I’ll always have, just that the surroundings and standard of the opposition might change which could then affect our ability to win those games. I won’t lose the opportunity to support the club if we stay down, anymore than I will if we get promoted, so any scenario will work for me once I’ve dealt with the associated emotions of being promoted or missing out, the summer will happen, players will come and go, the club and our support will remain regardless of league, that’s the great thing for me as we so nearly lost that. 

 

It's a nice sentiment but standing still in football is going backwards in football.

A short stint in League One is fine of course - we've been here before and it isn't below us to take a dip to this level occasionally, but it is a massive rarity over the course of our 139 years of history. Mel Morris' idiocy might have threatened to wipe that out, but he didn't 'succeed'. Our place in the pyramid is higher than League One, and it shouldn't be something we just accept because of the actions of one man put us in danger.

It's all well and good saying we'll be happy watch Derby in whatever league we happen to be in but that theory hasn't really been tested, there have been so few spells in our history where we've actually been down here and it's never been for a sustained period of time. There isn't a single Derby supporter dead or alive who's experienced us truly being stuck at level 3.

Seeing just how poor the level of quality many of our opponents have possessed this season, the multitude of chances they've failed to create let alone take against us because none of their players have the ability to play a decisive pass / cross anywhere within 10 feet of a teammate etc, has actually seen me throw my palms up and let out a sigh of exasperation many times.

That's not a sigh of disappointment, obviously - I mainly feel for their fans having to watch such hopeless football week in week out and I've really not been able to feel any real sense of satisfaction or accomplishment when watching us beat those teams.

It's not the standard of opposition changing and affecting our ability to win that bothers me, it's the thought that the standard of our own players could fall to somewhere near that level  - and regularly lose to teams of that standard - as the norm.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Caerphilly Ram]

19 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

It's a nice sentiment but standing still in football is going backwards in football.

A short stint in League One is fine of course - we've been here before and it isn't below us to take a dip to this level occasionally, but it is a massive rarity over the course of our 139 years of history. Mel Morris' idiocy might have threatened to wipe that out, but he didn't 'succeed'. Our place in the pyramid is higher than League One, and it shouldn't be something we just accept because of the actions of one man put us in danger.

It's all well and good saying we'll be happy watch Derby in whatever league we happen to be in but that theory hasn't really been tested, there have been so few spells in our history where we've actually been down here and it's never been for a sustained period of time. There isn't a single Derby supporter dead or alive who's experienced us truly being stuck at level 3.

Seeing just how poor the level of quality many of our opponents have possessed this season, the multitude of chances they've failed to create let alone take against us because none of their players have the ability to play a decisive pass / cross anywhere within 10 feet of a teammate etc, has actually seen me throw my palms up and let out a sigh of exasperation many times.

That's not a sigh of disappointment, obviously - I mainly feel for their fans having to watch such hopeless football week in week out and I've really not been able to feel any real sense of satisfaction or accomplishment when watching us beat those teams.

It's not the standard of opposition changing and affecting our ability to win that bothers me, it's the thought that the standard of our own players could fall to somewhere near that level  - and regularly lose to teams of that standard - as the norm.

All fair enough. I wasn’t speaking for anyone else in my post, it was very much my view that I am happy to follow the club regardless of league. I’m aware others may not feel that way. I stated I struggle to reconcile the urgency that other people are expressing so appreciate your perspective on it. 
Your point alludes to being stuck down here for a long time and the standard dropping, I guess I just don’t see that eventuality as likely. We will go back to the championship and hopefully beyond at some stage.
I’ve said before I feel proper questions should be asked of Warne if we don’t appear to be progressing (up the league tables) after he’s had time to shape his squad, to reiterate in my view if we don’t get promoted this season it would be disappointing but not devastating, so long as we continue moving towards promotion next season and the continued recovery of the club following the events of the last few years.

[Caerphilly Ram]

43 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

Our place in the pyramid is higher than League One, and it shouldn't be something we just accept because of the actions of one man put us in danger.

 

A further thought. This is the point I think is leading to the biggest divide of opinions in the fan base. Some people are able to accept that we are a relatively big club in every sense (fan base, history, stadium, facilities etc) who find themselves in league one for a combination/culmination of reasons (Mel Morris’ boom or bust approach, Covid, EFL penalties, other club chairman…the ref conspiracy…? Essentially, a perfect storm of sh*t), and some are not able to accept it.
The reasons will be debated for eternity in all likelihood, but we are where we are because of them so there HAS to be an aspect of accepting that, it happened and it led to admin and relegation, the squad being decimated, the club’s reputation being tarnished, massive change all round.
I believe once a person accepts that situation for what it is you’re then able to focus on the reality we face as a club and how best to move forward. Recognising that it may take a bit of time helps me stay fairly level with it I suppose, patience in the process somewhat. I then see what I perceive as a lack of patience and acceptance of that situation with some folk and think they’d all do themselves a favour to keep that perspective of where we are and what needs to happen to move us forwards. You said words to the effect of standing still in football is going backwards, but sometimes you have to stand still in order to catch your breath, regroup and rebuild in order to move forwards.

Thats not to say accept being a league one club forever, but accept the horrible situation happened and it may take time, patience and strategy to recover. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[TomTom92]

4 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

A further thought. This is the point I think is leading to the biggest divide of opinions in the fan base. Some people are able to accept that we are a relatively big club in every sense (fan base, history, stadium, facilities etc) who find themselves in league one for a combination/culmination of reasons (Mel Morris’ boom or bust approach, Covid, EFL penalties, other club chairman…the ref conspiracy…? Essentially, a perfect storm of sh*t), and some are not able to accept it.
The reasons will be debated for eternity in all likelihood, but we are where we are because of them so there HAS to be an aspect of accepting that, it happened and it led to admin and relegation, the squad being decimated, the club’s reputation being tarnished, massive change all round.
I believe once a person accepts that situation for what it is you’re then able to focus on the reality we face as a club and how best to move forward. Recognising that it may take a bit of time helps me stay fairly level with it I suppose, patience in the process somewhat. I then see what I perceive as a lack of patience and acceptance of that situation with some folk and think they’d all do themselves a favour to keep that perspective of where we are and what needs to happen to move us forwards. You said words to the effect of standing still in football is going backwards, but sometimes you have to stand still in order to catch your breath, regroup and rebuild in order to move forwards.

Thats not to say accept being a league one club forever, but accept the horrible situation happened and it may take time, patience and strategy to recover. 

I guess the danger will be for us to end up like Charlton, who by all accounts do look stuck in league 1. However, i acknowledge that their ownership issues are probably the main reason for this stagnation and with DC at the helm we shouldn't face this issue.

My personal opinion is that there's no time like the present but ultimately if we fail this season i see us going up in the next two. If we don't at that point then its time for panic. 

[May Contain Nuts]

2 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

All fair enough. I wasn’t speaking for anyone else in my post, it was very much my view that I am happy to follow the club regardless of league. I’m aware others may not feel that way. I stated I struggle to reconcile the urgency that other people are expressing so appreciate your perspective on it. 
Your point alludes to being stuck down here for a long time and the standard dropping, I guess I just don’t see that eventuality as likely. We will go back to the championship and hopefully beyond at some stage.
I’ve said before I feel proper questions should be asked of Warne if we don’t appear to be progressing (up the league tables) after he’s had time to shape his squad, to reiterate in my view if we don’t get promoted this season it would be disappointing but not devastating, so long as we continue moving towards promotion next season and the continued recovery of the club following the events of the last few years.

All good, and I'm sure most will share your view even if you weren't trying to speak for them. 

I don't even not share most of it, just putting an alternate out there and while I don't think my scenario is particularly likely either, I've been scarred by the MM tenure never to rule out the worst!  After all I don't think anyone envisaged us being where we are when he took over (even if they knew better than to fall for his 'lifelong Derby supporter' act)

I don't think it's as urgent as getting up this season or next but to accomplish Clowes' vision we'd really need to be motoring in that 3rd season IMO.

This isn't in any way a comparison between MM & Clowes, or a criticism of Clowes (before anyone starts) it's just that we don't know his future plans beyond those already stated, what happens if the stated goals aren't able to be achieved? Right now we don't need to know so it's a moot point anyway!

[Caerphilly Ram]

9 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

I guess the danger will be for us to end up like Charlton, who by all accounts do look stuck in league 1. However, i acknowledge that their ownership issues are probably the main reason for this stagnation and with DC at the helm we shouldn't face this issue.

My personal opinion is that there's no time like the present but ultimately if we fail this season i see us going up in the next two. If we don't at that point then its time for panic. 

Don’t get me wrong, if we go up this season I’ll be over the moon, for a bit… then full of intrigue/dread as to whether we can build a squad and stay up. Same as if we don’t go up I’ll be massively fed up for a bit, then full of intrigue/excitement as to whether we can build a squad to go up next season.

I guess I’m just content to wait and see how it plays out either way. If we do end up doing a Charlton and stuck down here forever you can all come at me with a sack full of “we told you so’s” and I’ll take my medicine 😊 

[Premier ram]

On 10/04/2023 at 21:31, Millenniumram said:

Come on that’s complete and utter tripe.

Clowes got the appointment of Warne wrong. That doesn’t mean that I don’t still appreciate everything that he’s done for this football club, and continues to do. Everyone makes mistakes, I just feel bad for Clowes that despite working so hard to build a team capable of promotion (which was incredibly difficult), his manager has failed to deliver it.

seasons finished has it ??

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

It's a nice sentiment but standing still in football is going backwards in football.

 

This is a confusing statement imo, What is standing still in football?, Is it happy where you are and not trying to improve your squad?, Is it having the Administrators in and make you stand still?, Is it having owners to just tinkle along and sell to survive?.

Have those mugs down the A52 stood still?, Leeds, Leicester, Southampton, WHU, Everton and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, I know what you mean Koko really, The finances in the EPL has crippled teams, Owners and Fans and made multi millionaires out of players and agents. 

There's only a few who are moving forward...I guess, But there's going to come a time when that financial bubble goes 

[Millenniumram]

30 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

seasons finished has it ??

After Monday I’ll run down the Prode Park touch line in a Forest short if we make the playoffs. There’s no chance now

[Premier ram]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

After Monday I’ll run down the Prode Park touch line in a Forest short if we make the playoffs. There’s no chance now

for what reason in your opinion is there no chance of play offs

[kevinhectoring]

4 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

What would be so terrible about staying in this league compared to being promoted

A malaise can set in, if say we miss promotion twice. Harder to recruit, we play worse football, gates fall, the academy suffers further, sponsorship (what’s left) evaporates, Capex is reduced etc.  Surely you don’t want your team to be a perennial underachiever. 

No I’d rather be in the prem  If Brentford and Brighton can do it, why not us ?

[Millenniumram]

15 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

for what reason in your opinion is there no chance of play offs

Have you seen our form compared to Peterborough? There’s your answer. We’re not getting the results we need to, and have a much tougher run-in. We’ve consistently proven under Paul Warne that we cannot compete with top half teams.

[ram59]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Have you seen our form compared to Peterborough? There’s your answer. We’re not getting the results we need to, and have a much tougher run-in. We’ve consistently proven under Paul Warne that we cannot compete with top half teams.

From fairly recent experience we had Hull in our pockets for 3 and a half games, but one mad half sent them to Wembley and likewise the dirties had us in their pockets for 3 and a half games before that great come back, which sent us to Wembley.

[Blondest Goat]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I think it was more a case of Rosenior doing the coaching, whilst Rooney chose the tactics. Flip-flopping between route 1 and possession football game by game under Rooney, whilst only possession football under Rosenior is strong evidence.
Rooney = match up to the opposition
Rosenior = play our own game.

Not sure where I was during the route one games.  Never thought we played too direct last season.  Just remember Allsop being stood yards out of his box for most of the season and the ball getting to the final third and then coming all the way back to him. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

A malaise can set in, if say we miss promotion twice. Harder to recruit, we play worse football, gates fall, the academy suffers further, sponsorship (what’s left) evaporates, Capex is reduced etc.  Surely you don’t want your team to be a perennial underachiever. 

No I’d rather be in the prem  If Brentford and Brighton can do it, why not us ?

I didn’t say I wanted us to be perennial underachievers. Brentford and Brighton are great examples, examples of clubs who built themselves up with a clear strategy in order to realise their progression and establish themselves in the top flight, neither of which had been through the recent trials we have. You’re right if we don’t go up long term the damage could be grim, if we don’t go up immediately it won’t be a catastrophe is my point, I’m just preaching a little sense and patience is all.

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Another scenario is we go up, get battered week in week out and get relegated back to league one which could result in us yo-yo-ing between the two. 
My view isn’t that another season in this league is “best for us”, just that it isn’t necessarily the worst case scenario some suggest either. There are pros and cons to both situations.

Promotion this season - increased revenue in the championship, potential to retain better players, potential to attract better players. We COULD do fine and stay up at the first attempt, or we COULD struggle to compete with others due to the ongoing restrictions and be relegated.

Miss out on promotion this season - We might lose some of our better players, we’ll potentially still be able to attract decent free transfers with the wages and facilities we can offer, Warne gets chance to build a more balanced team and we COULD go up next season carrying momentum into the championship at which point it’s guaranteed the business plan/restrictions will end. We COULD also miss out and be stuck in league one for longer as you suggest, but again with restrictions lifted we’d then be able to recruit far more competitively to get promoted at the third attempt.

The bit I struggle to reconcile with my own views versus other people’s is the apparent urgency some feel to be promoted and the implied short term thinking that is coming from some areas of the fan base with regards to the management team. What would be so terrible about staying in this league compared to being promoted? I want to watch Derby County play football matches and ideally win more than they lose, if that is in league one, the championship or the premier league it’s essentially the same expectation I’ll always have, just that the surroundings and standard of the opposition might change which could then affect our ability to win those games. I won’t lose the opportunity to support the club if we stay down, anymore than I will if we get promoted, so any scenario will work for me once I’ve dealt with the associated emotions of being promoted or missing out, the summer will happen, players will come and go, the club and our support will remain regardless of league, that’s the great thing for me as we so nearly lost that. 

Yep I desperately want us to go up but the simple truth is that no matter what happens at the end of this season , the last 50 odd seasons or however many more seasons I’m lucky enough to be drawing breath for I will still be the same to the core derby fan looking forward to the next one full of hope with the rest of my derby county tribe 🤷🏻‍♂️

[FlyBritishMidland]

4 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

A further thought. This is the point I think is leading to the biggest divide of opinions in the fan base. Some people are able to accept that we are a relatively big club in every sense (fan base, history, stadium, facilities etc) who find themselves in league one for a combination/culmination of reasons (Mel Morris’ boom or bust approach, Covid, EFL penalties, other club chairman…the ref conspiracy…? Essentially, a perfect storm of sh*t), and some are not able to accept it.
The reasons will be debated for eternity in all likelihood, but we are where we are because of them so there HAS to be an aspect of accepting that, it happened and it led to admin and relegation, the squad being decimated, the club’s reputation being tarnished, massive change all round.
I believe once a person accepts that situation for what it is you’re then able to focus on the reality we face as a club and how best to move forward. Recognising that it may take a bit of time helps me stay fairly level with it I suppose, patience in the process somewhat. I then see what I perceive as a lack of patience and acceptance of that situation with some folk and think they’d all do themselves a favour to keep that perspective of where we are and what needs to happen to move us forwards. You said words to the effect of standing still in football is going backwards, but sometimes you have to stand still in order to catch your breath, regroup and rebuild in order to move forwards.

Thats not to say accept being a league one club forever, but accept the horrible situation happened and it may take time, patience and strategy to recover. 

Exactly this.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Have you seen our form compared to Peterborough? There’s your answer. We’re not getting the results we need to, and have a much tougher run-in. We’ve consistently proven under Paul Warne that we cannot compete with top half teams.

Bolton are catchable too, way too soon to say it is not possible, but agreed, if I had to put my mortgage on it, I would say we will miss out by a few points.