Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[Tyler Durden]

5 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

who find themselves in league one for a combination/culmination of reasons (Mel Morris’ boom or bust approach, Covid, EFL penalties, other club chairman…the ref conspiracy…? Essentially, a perfect storm of sh*t), and some are not able to accept it.

Morris' crack brained running of the club was the catalyst for our downfall and served to make us more susceptible to the other external factors you mentioned.

If it was an accident investigation, which it should be as Morris oversaw a train wreck, then the root cause of our demise was Morris' financial mismanagement of the club and gambling on outcomes that never transpired. 

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Blondest Goat said:

Not sure where I was during the route one games.  Never thought we played too direct last season.  Just remember Allsop being stood yards out of his box for most of the season and the ball getting to the final third and then coming all the way back to him. 

iIRC, what Rooney (?LR) quite cleverly did for several games was indeed play short, possession football but occasionally push Fozzie high up on the left and quite successfully use him as the long-ball outlet when the press got too much. Fozzie unsurprisingly generally won the aerial ball and tried to find CKR or whomever with his flick on. It seemed a good enough ploy (albeit predictable and off the blackboard) and it had some success. It certainly forced the oppo to reset and took the sting out of the press. But sadly The flying Scotsman was dropped and replaced by Buchanan’s sideways floppiness and we were relegated. 
 

[Oldben]

On 10/04/2023 at 22:55, Bris Vegas said:

I wanted us to go for Mowbray too. At the time he was the best candidate for the job by quite some distance.

I think this season has gone. We should give Warne the summer to mould the squad and go again next season.

It has got to the stage for me where I think we should cash in on Knight, Bird and Sibley. Use the money to bring in around 8 players who can play Warne ball.

Ipswich actually did similar with a couple or their talented youngsters. They sold Downes and Dozzell to fund several signings.

Assuming Tony Mowbray instead of Paul Warne was managing Derby County this season in League One, it's difficult to predict who would at the start of the season been able to do a better job with certainty. Both managers have had success in their managerial careers, but the specific circumstances of managing a team under a transfer embargo and with limited player options present's a unique challenge.

In such a situation, man-management skills and the ability to work with the resources available may be crucial. Mowbray has experience managing teams at various levels in English football, including in the Championship and League One, while Warne had a strong track record of promoting young players and developing talent at Rotherham United.

Based on these factors, it's possible that Warne wa better equipped to handle the situation, given his experience in developing young talent and working with limited resources. However, it's important to note that the success of a manager in a given situation also depends on various other factors, including the specific strengths and weaknesses of the team, the playing style, and the strategies employed.

Finally, just because you want a particular manager does not mean that manager wants to manage your team, especially if that team is one in the trouble that Derby county is in. A club where you don't have a transfer budget, where the summer transfer window has ended and you left with 13 new players who largely joined as free agents and were not your choice.

It's possible most managers would not want that job.

[Duracell]

One thing you do have to give credit to Warne is getting fully stuck in with our traditions as a club. He’s fully immersed himself with our annual Lent/Easter collapse in form. 

[G STAR RAM]

On 10/04/2023 at 21:31, Millenniumram said:

Come on that’s complete and utter tripe.

Clowes got the appointment of Warne wrong. 

I thought Clowes said when he hired Warne that the aim was to have us established back in The Championship within 5 years.

Based on this metric, how have you concluded that he got the appointment wrong?

Or are you judging the appointment against some othet random metric?

[jimtastic56]

16 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

After Monday I’ll run down the Prode Park touch line in a Forest short if we make the playoffs. There’s no chance now

I think we still have a squeak because Peterborough have to go to Barnsley on the last day and play Ipswich before that. Warne’s biggest problem is lack of goalscorers - perhaps Sibley could be the one to help McGoldrick ? 

[kevinhectoring]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I thought Clowes said when he hired Warne that the aim was to have us established back in The Championship within 5 years.

Based on this metric, how have you concluded that he got the appointment wrong?

Or are you judging the appointment against some othet random metric?

Splendidly scintillating sophistry with masterful use of the false syllogism. Have you considered a move into politics ? 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Splendidly scintillating sophistry with masterful use of the false syllogism. Have you considered a move into politics ? 

Happy for you to tell me what I have said that is wrong?

[Ghost of Clough]

16 hours ago, Blondest Goat said:

Not sure where I was during the route one games.  Never thought we played too direct last season.  Just remember Allsop being stood yards out of his box for most of the season and the ball getting to the final third and then coming all the way back to him. 

The most obvious example was Wycombe when Rooney first became manager

[kevinhectoring]

32 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Happy for you to tell me what I have said that is wrong?

Exactly, that’s the mischievous art you have mastered, saying nothing wrong but leading your hapless following into a swamp of flawed logic and disingenuity. It’s like Boris and the bus.

The most magnificent sleight of hand is the suggestion that ‘aim to be established back in the championship within 5 years’ (note ‘within’) implies that there would be little or no appetite for promotion as soon as possible  

Not to mention that it’s a stretch to contend that manager selection was ‘based on that metric’ (what ‘metric’?), because DC’s objective in making the statement was surely to manage your and my expectations. You would be on stronger ground arguing that the timing of LR’s departure (he was given less time than we all expected) makes it absolutely clear that DC would take promotion at the earliest opportunity. 
 

... maybe you did say something wrong though: my recollection is that the 5 year comment came well after PW’s appointment (but I might have missed it at the time). Do you recall when he said it?

[Barney1991]

Why are loads of people moaning if the club doesn’t go up this season. After coming out of admin in middle of July with 5 players and throwing pensioners and loans into a squad in 2 weeks we are lucky to be where we are. Other teams in this league have had 2 to 3 seasons spending money to equip there teams. To be in with a shout in the first season is incredible to be fair. 
 

also if we were to go up with the business plan expect us to struggle big time and watch a dog fight every game and is trying to survive. Does everyone really want to watch that again. Get a good summer window with restrictions eased to buy players for low fees for example have a tight good crack next season and go up as champions and then add to the squad then with no business plan is where I would rather see if I’m completely honest. 
 

also the debate on rosenior and warne that I keep seeing on here still to this day. Warne has 3 promotions when having his own squad and choices in which rosenior had never managed. We were 9 games in when we changed which isn’t even a third of the season l. Players still fresh and we were 7th. I’m sorry but if anyone thinks when we got to the Christmas period and february and March with rosenior in charge that we would be in 7th is living in cuckoo land in my opinion. I think we would be 10th the 12th in all seriousness and if anyone disagrees then fair enough. 
 

clear to see the players are knackered and have ran out of steam which I think will be addressed in the summer with more players in prime years between 22 and 27. Evident to see as now I doubt we would see a same scenario of the port vale game where we were still going later on in the game or against Bolton where hourihane was still breaking into the box from our own box on the 82nd minute just isn’t going to happen now. 
 

id just enjoy seeing a full 90 minutes of play than 45 minutes of great play and then a second 45 minutes of knackered oap’s. 
 

for those not happy with warne now wait till we actually get promoted hopefully soon and look at his championship record this forum will be a sight to see. Maybe with extra money he can do a job 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Barney1991

[Jubbs]

4 hours ago, Oldben said:

while Warne had a strong track record of promoting young players and developing talent at Rotherham United.

Did he? Name me some players he used and developed from Rotherham's academy?

There are 2 I can think of that were any good. Ben Wiles and Jerry Yates, but Yates had already broken through by the time Warne was manager.

[Caerphilly Ram]

34 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Exactly, that’s the mischievous art you have mastered, saying nothing wrong but leading your hapless following into a swamp of flawed logic and disingenuity. It’s like Boris and the bus.

The most magnificent sleight of hand is the suggestion that ‘aim to be established back in the championship within 5 years’ (note ‘within’) implies that there would be little or no appetite for promotion as soon as possible  

Not to mention that it’s a stretch to contend that manager selection was ‘based on that metric’ (what ‘metric’?), because DC’s objective in making the statement was surely to manage your and my expectations. You would be on stronger ground arguing that the timing of LR’s departure (he was given less time than we all expected) makes it absolutely clear that DC would take promotion at the earliest opportunity. 
 

... maybe you did say something wrong though: my recollection is that the 5 year comment came well after PW’s appointment (but I might have missed it at the time). Do you recall when he said it?

Odd post. And the second time in two days I’ve seen you attributing words and thinking into other people’s mouths that isn’t explicitly what they said. 
 

There is an appetite for promotion. That’s the clearly stated goal of the owner, the manager and the fans. All Rams Fans would be happy with promotion this season, there are clearly shared concerns by some about if and how we would fare in the championship under restrictions but if we do go up we’ll all get to find out. I believe the point I and others are repeatedly trying to articulate is it will not be a catastrophe if that doesn’t happen this season. The keenness of some posters to encourage a change of management and state that missing out on promotion this season is a failure only serves to set further unrealistic expectations. 

I read G Star Ram’s post as asking Millenium Ram to clarify their point. Nothing wrong with that is there? I’ve done it a couple of times and not yet been blessed with an answer. I recognise that Millenium Ram doesn’t like Warne, but thats opinion, stating the appointment was wrong as some sort of fact doesn’t stack up without more substance. Wrong how? We haven’t been promoted yet but could still be this season, likely or unlikely as it may be it’s mathematically possible.

If failing to win promotion this season doesn’t meet an individual’s expectations that’s fine, but it isn’t the publicly shared expectation of the owner who said in a recent interview he wants the club established in the championship within the next 5 years. That could mean this year, or next, or the one after. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[Ghost of Clough]

4 hours ago, Oldben said:

Assuming Tony Mowbray instead of Paul Warne was managing Derby County this season in League One, it's difficult to predict who would at the start of the season been able to do a better job with certainty. Both managers have had success in their managerial careers, but the specific circumstances of managing a team under a transfer embargo and with limited player options present's a unique challenge.

In such a situation, man-management skills and the ability to work with the resources available may be crucial. Mowbray has experience managing teams at various levels in English football, including in the Championship and League One, while Warne had a strong track record of promoting young players and developing talent at Rotherham United.

Based on these factors, it's possible that Warne wa better equipped to handle the situation, given his experience in developing young talent and working with limited resources. However, it's important to note that the success of a manager in a given situation also depends on various other factors, including the specific strengths and weaknesses of the team, the playing style, and the strategies employed.

Finally, just because you want a particular manager does not mean that manager wants to manage your team, especially if that team is one in the trouble that Derby county is in. A club where you don't have a transfer budget, where the summer transfer window has ended and you left with 13 new players who largely joined as free agents and were not your choice.

It's possible most managers would not want that job.

Rotherham had a top 6 budget in every season they had in L1.

Warne became manager of Rotherham in November 2016. He had 1 academy success in his 6 years as manager, with other not getting game time, or flopping. The majority of youngsters he plays are on loan, and others typically get limited game time.
The following players aged 21 or younger played at least 1000 minutes in his seasons as manger:

16/17
Ball - Signed by previous manager, loaned out in January 2017 by Warne
Brown - Loaned in by previous manager, send back to Chelsea in January 2017 by Warne
Yates - Academy graduate. Involvement in first team increased in the 2nd half of the season following Brown going back to Chelsea and not being able to sign a replacement. Scored 3 goals in 46 games as a CF for Warne (44 goals in 136 games since joining Blackpool).

17/18
Ben Purrington - One of Warne's first signings. Squad player for a season and a half before being loaned out and eventually sold
Josh Emmanuel - Loaned in from Hull

18/19
Rodak - Loaned from Fulham
Vyner - Loaned from Bristol City
Wiles - His real first success story in developing youngsters, and someone I expect Warne to sign in the summer. Came through the academy with only a 1 month spell out on loan in non-league.

19/20
Iverson - Loaned from Leicester
Olosunde - Arguably a success. Signed on the cheap from Man Utd and played in around 50% of the total minutes during a 2 year spell
Wiles - As per 18/19

20/21
Johansson - Free signing from Leicester and finally established himself as first choice keeper this season (22/23).
Giles - Loaned from Wolves
Wiles - As per 18/19 and 19/20

21/22
Kayode - another academy graduate. 2 goal in 28 games at CF, previously being loaned out on 4 occasions over 3 seasons before making his league debut under Warne. Loaned out again this season to MK Dons and has barely played.

22/23
Norton-Cuffy - loaned in from Arsenal by Warne and sent back by new manager in January

[kevinhectoring]

47 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Odd post. And the second time in two days I’ve seen you attributing words and thinking into other people’s mouths that isn’t explicitly what they said. 

To avoid misunderstanding:

millenium ram stated DC has got the managerial appointment wrong.  

GStar Ram’s response was to refer to the 5 year plan and ask MR to explain how, in light of the plan, his statement could be justified. His overbearing implication was that it could not.  It was imo an entirely spurious response because it rests on two false assumptions, namely that promotion ASAP was not thought desirable; and that the 5 year comment was a strategic objective rather than an exercise in expectation management 
 

That’s all I was saying. I was walking the dog with time on my hands so anyone could be forgiven for losing the substance of my post in the purple pretentiousness 

[BondJovi]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The most obvious example was Wycombe when Rooney first became manager

Don't remind me. You'd be embarrassed to play in that if you played in the MRA!

[Caerphilly Ram]

34 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

To avoid misunderstanding:

millenium ram stated DC has got the managerial appointment wrong.  

GStar Ram’s response was to refer to the 5 year plan and ask MR to explain how, in light of the plan, his statement could be justified. His overbearing implication was that it could not.  It was imo an entirely spurious response because it rests on two false assumptions, namely that promotion ASAP was not thought desirable; and that the 5 year comment was a strategic objective rather than an exercise in expectation management 
 

That’s all I was saying. I was walking the dog with time on my hands so anyone could be forgiven for losing the substance of my post in the purple pretentiousness 

Again, by your own admission there’s assumption in your post and a perceived implication. 
The facts you point out are what matter, MR stated Warne’s appointment is wrong, GSTAR asks how it is wrong and gives the 5 year expectation as a metric. 
I’ve yet to see MR qualify their assertion that Warne is the wrong appointment. It again links into expectations, if the expectation is promotion immediately this season by way of the automatic places then you can argue he’s the wrong appointment. If the expectations link to style of football or development of the academy that all involves affording time to recover, recruit, and implement.
The only expectations set publicly from the club, by the owner and the manager, are that promotion to the championship and beyond is the aim, and that it may take time. Warne commented as much during the initial press of his appointment and Clowes has reiterated that with his more recent interview. 
So no implications, no assumptions, clearly set expectations by the club of promotion to the championship at some point, with a belated addition of a 5 year time frame to be “established in the championship”. If it happens this year, great, if it doesn’t that’s not a sign of a lack of drive or ambition, just that we are yet to meet that overall expectation, therefore how is Warne proven to be the wrong appointment at this stage? 
 

EDIT: I also want to add I’m not blindly defending Warne, I’ve said a few times now I think he’s looking quite stubborn/limited tactically and his in game management frustrates me. I just don’t get how people can’t see nothing is done yet with regards to this season and an element of affording a little more time towards any rebuilding in league one or the championship is logical and realistic. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[kevinhectoring]

46 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Again, by your own admission there’s assumption in your post and a perceived implication. 
The facts you point out are what matter, MR stated Warne’s appointment is wrong, GSTAR asks how it is wrong and gives the 5 year expectation as a metric. 
I’ve yet to see MR qualify their assertion that Warne is the wrong appointment. It again links into expectations, if the expectation is promotion immediately this season by way of the automatic places then you can argue he’s the wrong appointment. If the expectations link to style of football or development of the academy that all involves affording time to recover, recruit, and implement.
The only expectations set publicly from the club, by the owner and the manager, are that promotion to the championship and beyond is the aim, and that it may take time. Warne commented as much during the initial press of his appointment and Clowes has reiterated that with his more recent interview. 
So no implications, no assumptions, clearly set expectations by the club of promotion to the championship at some point, with a belated addition of a 5 year time frame to be “established in the championship”. If it happens this year, great, if it doesn’t that’s not a sign of a lack of drive or ambition, just that we are yet to meet that overall expectation, therefore how is Warne proven to be the wrong appointment at this stage? 
 

EDIT: I also want to add I’m not blindly defending Warne, I’ve said a few times now I think he’s looking quite stubborn/limited tactically and his in game management frustrates me. I just don’t get how people can’t see nothing is done yet with regards to this season and an element of affording a little more time towards any rebuilding in league one or the championship is logical and realistic. 

It’s comforting to see the ‘5 year plan’ as a considered strategy arrived at by a crack team after careful consideration of all the factors. And China’s got one so thank goodness we have too. But I think it’s a piece of flim flammery born of PR chicanery.  That said, if we fail to go up this year and next, we’ll see and hear much more of it - for a period... 

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

It’s comforting to see the ‘5 year plan’ as a considered strategy arrived at by a crack team after careful consideration of all the factors. And China’s got one so thank goodness we have too. But I think it’s a piece of flim flammery born of PR chicanery.  That said, if we fail to go up this year and next, we’ll see and hear much more of it - for a period... 

Okay then…. 👍

[Ram-Alf]

3 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

Why are loads of people moaning if the club doesn’t go up this season. After coming out of admin in middle of July with 5 players and throwing pensioners and loans into a squad in 2 weeks we are lucky to be where we are. Other teams in this league have had 2 to 3 seasons spending money to equip there teams. To be in with a shout in the first season is incredible to be fair. 
 

Not me Barney, I as with lots of others were swept up in the 16 game unbeaten run, Why wouldn't we, Wins and goals galore made it a happy evening either on the lash or dreams of promotion, Reality then crashes in, The Wycombe game(horrible club)sent a shock down my spine, Followed by Barnsley, Plymouth, Fleetwood, Peterboro and Ipswich, Confused.com had set in, The Shrewsbury game confirmed it...we're not a team that can play for a full 90+mins.

No blaming here from me, I dislike Refs...no blame, I despise the EFL...no blame, I hate time wasting...no blame, LR or PW...no blame, The players...no blame.

Another season in this pitiful division will do no harm...imo, If we get promoted there will be a happy smile on my face with a belly full of beer, If not then on we go again...I'll still get up the next day and enjoy my life 👍